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### Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 812743 times)

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 68
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #420 on: October 26, 2011, 04:05:13 AM »

Thanks Rick for doing this Spice Simulation of the circuit. Great job and idea of making a video of it.

I re-uploaded my video since I now feel confident with everyone's support that this was not an error in my part.

Thanks again for everyone's support.

Luc

Overunityguide, I have attached the Spice shots you requested on youtube. I added a voltage divider to the input to bring down the input voltage so it would show the output voltage better on the Spice scope shot.  The input voltage is now divided by ten.  The circuit resistance did not change though.

Rick

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #421 on: October 26, 2011, 06:48:57 AM »
Hello Gotoluc I have DSO 2090, just a tips to measure the power, use the maths function (CannelA*ChannelB) to display power, if you see a curve that have equal pulse above and bottom the zero line you have reactive power, maybe it will be much easier to read.

Channel -> Maths -> Activate -> SourceA(Channel1) -> SourceB(Channel2) ->
Operation -> A*B...

Hi SchubertReijiMaigo,

I've noticed the Math function before and did play around with it but don't quite understand it yet.

Luc

#### SchubertReijiMaigo

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 343
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #422 on: October 26, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »
Thanks you, I have read this thread by hazard, it seems your delayed Lenz law device device, look like Transverter device (Rotoverter sold state version) . If you read Combine.pdf you find a lot of information: especially they said in semi resonance state (like your case) L become R R become C and C become L resulting a PF of 0 in series or PF = 1 in parallel with minimum watts consumption (the real watts at secondary is not reflected to the source)... Another thing is they said for every real watts you need to circulate 10 VAR and PF 0 in order to achieve OU state, the energy is in Radio Frequency state Voltage at node/ Current at anti node... It's very look a like for me.

The PF 89 Â° that Thane has calculated is due maybe to the 1 ohm load which reflect to the line as PF=1 try to measure voltage across the coil and capacitor excluding the shunt to see what happen, if you find PF=0 Bingo !!!

Your experiment start to interest me a lot, look like that someone have put in real in real world the Transverter device with of the off the shelf device !!!

Good Job and Good luck.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 11:06:19 AM by SchubertReijiMaigo »

#### CRANKYpants

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1062
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #423 on: October 26, 2011, 12:51:48 PM »
Rick

NICE WORK RICK,

NOW PLEASE PUT THE SCOPE ACROSS THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY AND REDO THE SIMULATION.

THANKS
T

#### SchubertReijiMaigo

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 343
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #424 on: October 26, 2011, 02:50:07 PM »
I have made LT Spice simulation, with same value and parameter, the power of the secondary load is reflected to the source exactly, look like simulation is not best way to test this configuration. Simulation usually comply with law of conservation energy and are not always in accordance with reality...

What happen if you load more the trafo, maybe must be retuning the cap value to keep PF=0 with different load...

Your trafo is 12 volts with 10 Ohms load which dissipate 14 watts of real power, right ?

According to the classical law of conservation your meter should display 14 watts also... But instead display 0 watts... So I don't think your meter is fooled because your are in the 15 watts range...

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 68
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #425 on: October 26, 2011, 05:03:41 PM »
NICE WORK RICK,

NOW PLEASE PUT THE SCOPE ACROSS THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY AND REDO THE SIMULATION.

THANKS
T

As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 68
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #426 on: October 26, 2011, 05:20:17 PM »
Does anyone know why I can't attach photos here with my iPhone? Is there an app for this forum that allows attachments? If not, we need one.

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #427 on: October 26, 2011, 05:45:18 PM »
Hi everyone,

last night I picked up a Pure Sine Wave output Inverter and tested it on the circuit.

Unfortunately I don't think the Inverters circuit knows what to do with Reactive Power as there was no decrease in current draw on the 12vdc side. Watts out was Watts in.

Something else I noticed is the 24uf Capacitance used to make my Watts meter display Zero when plugged into the Grid would display 3 to 4 Watts when plugged in to the Inverter. By reducing the Capacitance to 15uf it came back to Zero. So maybe the Capacitance is doing some kind of Impedance matching and fools the meter?

I think a special circuit would be needed to recirculate this Reactive Power.
Would a Isolation transformer between a power Source and a Reactive power device be able to show a benefit? or using an alternator as power source. Could this be simulated in Spice?

I would be interested to also see if a smaller load like 1 Ohm (instead of 10) would do to the Phase. Can one of you check that in Spice.

Thanks

Luc

#### CRANKYpants

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1062
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #428 on: October 26, 2011, 06:02:12 PM »
As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS REQUIRED THANKS RAD-HHO.

UNFORTUNATLEY THE VOLTAGE AND CURRENT ARE ALMOST IN PHASE WHICH IS WHAT I EXPECTED.

CHEERS
T

#### SchubertReijiMaigo

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 343
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #429 on: October 26, 2011, 09:22:28 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately I don't think the Inverters circuit knows what to do with Reactive Power as there was no decrease in current draw on the 12vdc side. Watts out was Watts in.

Yes, some Inverter can't deal with reactive power (especially capacitive one) they burn energy like active load (at the 12 Volts side) and burn up because transistor cannot support capacitive power...

Quote
Something else I noticed is the 24uf Capacitance used to make my Watts meter display Zero when plugged into the Grid would display 3 to 4 Watts when plugged in to the Inverter. By reducing the Capacitance to 15uf it came back to Zero. So maybe the Capacitance is doing some kind of Impedance matching and fools the meter?

Hmm, maybe some losses in the inverter or the voltage sightly different than the grid... Then you must "re-tune" the cap value to obtain PF=0...

Quote
I would be interested to also see if a smaller load like 1 Ohm (instead of 10) would do to the Phase. Can one of you check that in Spice.

Thanks

Luc

I have tested this also, same result as before full reflection to the source, simulation comply with conservation energy, I am skeptic to use simulation to test FE circuit... In simulation any component that have PF=1 is reflected into the source no matter what kind of circuit you use.

SRM.

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #430 on: October 26, 2011, 09:36:32 PM »
Does anyone know why I can't attach photos here with my iPhone? Is there an app for this forum that allows attachments? If not, we need one.

Attachments are done below the post text box.

There are some restrictions like, maximum individual size 500KB
and allowed file types: txt, tif, xls, doc, odt, pdf, jpg, gif, mp3, mpg, flv, mp4, mpeg, png, rm, ra, rmv, avi, zip, wmv, wma, rar, qt, mov, swf, asf, wm2d, 3gp, 3g2

Hope this helps

Luc

#### gotoluc

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3096
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #431 on: October 26, 2011, 09:39:50 PM »

Luc

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 68
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #432 on: October 26, 2011, 10:28:43 PM »
Attachments are done below the post text box.

There are some restrictions like, maximum individual size 500KB
and allowed file types: txt, tif, xls, doc, odt, pdf, jpg, gif, mp3, mpg, flv, mp4, mpeg, png, rm, ra, rmv, avi, zip, wmv, wma, rar, qt, mov, swf, asf, wm2d, 3gp, 3g2

Hope this helps

Luc

Yeah, I have posted attachments here before with my pc. I just tried doing it on my iPhone, and it would not let me. I got this... See attachment...... notice the "Choose File" is grayed out.

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 68
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #433 on: October 26, 2011, 10:40:41 PM »
As you wish....

Sorry about the quality. If you can't see everything I will repost later when I have wifi available.

Here are some clearer shots of this video.
InputVoltage is divided by ten to make everything presentable on the scope shot.

#### wings

• Hero Member
• Posts: 750
##### Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #434 on: October 27, 2011, 12:32:41 AM »

Mutually Coupled Inductors in Parallel

When inductors are connected together in parallel so that the magnetic field of one links with the other, the effect of mutual inductance either increases or decreases the total inductance depending upon the amount of magnetic coupling that exists between the coils. The effect of this mutual inductance depends upon the distance apart of the coils and their orientation to each other. Mutually connected inductors in parallel can be classed as either "aiding" or "opposing" the total inductance with parallel aiding connected coils increasing the total equivalent inductance and parallel opposing coils decreasing the total equivalent inductance compared to coils that have zero mutual inductance. http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/inductor/parallel-inductors.html

some calculation with mutual inductance effect give less efficiency 444% instead of 489% (please check my calculation)