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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 870163 times)

garrypm

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #240 on: October 06, 2011, 09:05:48 AM »
Hi Luc,

Wonderful video.

Would it be too much trouble to ask to see the scope when the load is applied?

Thanks, Garry

CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #241 on: October 06, 2011, 01:35:55 PM »
Hi everyone,

I can now confirm Overunityguide's Delayed Lenz Effect using my H-Bridge AC Circuit which outputs Square Wave AC from what ever DC Voltage I wish. The best part of using a DC source is I can accurately measure the current consumed using my special meter I built for pulse circuits.

Luc

REALLY NICE VIDEO LUC,
YOU CERTAINLY HAVE CONQUERED THAT "ELECTRONICS DEMON"  ;)

I NOTICED THAT IN THE VIDEO YOU SAY THAT, "THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT CHANGE"
WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE IT ACTUALLY DROPS BY 0.2 mA FROM NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD?  8)

AM I CORRECT IN WHAT I AM OBSERVING?

I DON'T THINK A CURRENT DROP SHOULD BE UNDERESTIMATED SINCE IT MEANS THAT:

THE SECONDARY DELAYED BEMF FLUX IS ACTUALLY INCREASING THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE CAUSING THE CURRENT TO DROP (REDUCING PRIMARY HEAT AND LOSSES WHILE INCREASING EFFICIENCY WHICH WOULD BE A REALLY HUGE BOOST FOR WIND TURBINE COMPANIES - ARE YOU LISTENING VESTAS, PHILLIPS, GE?). PERHAPS IT IS TIME TO PLACE YOUR SETUP ON A 4 CHANNEL SCOPE? JUST LET ME KNOW...?

CONVENTIONAL TRANSFORMER SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF CAUSE THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE TO DROP WHICH ALLOWS MORE CURRENT TO FLOW INTO THE PRIMARY WHILE ALSO CHANGING THE POWER FACTOR TO MIRROR THE LOAD - WHAT IS YOUR PF ON-LOAD BTW?

IT ALSO MEANS TO ME THAT THE SECONDARY INDUCED BEMF FLUX IS RETURNING TO THE PRIMARY ON THE FALLING EDGE OF THE PRIMARY SINE WAVE RATHER THAN THE LEADING EDGE WHICH OUGHT TO BE EXAMINED MORE CLOSELY.

"WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY BABY" SINCE OUR DAYS AT OTTAWA U (OU) WHEN WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON MOST OF THE TIME.  ??? http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/49/WP7zmk1t2gI

CHEERS
T
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:29:09 PM by CRANKYpants »

CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #242 on: October 06, 2011, 03:10:15 PM »
Subject: Would You Like to Witness and Participate in REAL OPEN WORLDWIDE ENERGY RESEARCH?

"We can't set up independent scientific juries every time a company or individual comes forward and makes a extraordinary claim about a technology that can benefit the world."  ~ Tyler Hamiltom, MAD LIKE TESLA Author, University of Toronto Ajunct Professor, and former Toronto Star Energy Reporter
 
Actually we CAN and we ARE and EVERYONE is invited to attend. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301879#new 
 
If you want to see generators which ACCELERATE ON-LOAD or transformers which supply power to a load with a REDUCTION IN POWER CONSUMPTION it is all here and you can join in (teach and learn) while maintaining your anonymity.
 
GENERATOR WHICH ACCELERATES ON-LOAD AND USES LESS POWER
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxc3Ai4T3A
 
TRANSFORMER WHICH USES LESS POWER ON-LOAD
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kluw71YC5p4
 
"You think I'm an arrogant [expletive] who thinks he's above the law, and I think you're a slime bucket [journalist] who gets most of his facts wrong." ~ Steve Jobs
 
Regards
Thane
 
CC

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "thaneh@potentialdifference.ca" <thaneh@potentialdifference.ca>
To: Tyler Hamilton <mcmurchie@gmail.com>; tyler@cleanbreak.ca; jackiesyrett@rogers.com
Cc: Bill Moore <editor@evworld.com>; Mike Brace <techeditor@evworld.com>; Jérôme_DANGMANN <jerome.mog@free.fr>; andres francisco moreno yuste <vehiculosverdes@googlemail.com>; Jay Iyengar <jd43@chrysler.com>; marc.boismenu@gm.com; phil.petsinis@gm.com; "Hearsch,Dan" <Dan.Hearsch@ricardo.com>; "Bailo,Carla (NTCNA)" <BailoC@NRD.NISSAN-USA.COM>; 都留 典孝 <n-tsuru@tbk.t-com.ne.jp>; "LEONDIS,GEORGE" <george_leondis@mail.nissan.co.jp>; Tom Prucha <Tom.Prucha@proteanelectric.com>; Roger Atkins <sidatkins@hotmail.com>; Sasha Serkh <AS7571@gates.com>; Gary Gloceri <ganue@comcast.net>; Jay Giraud <jay@rapidelectricvehicles.com>; Al Cormier <al.cormier@emc-mec.ca>; Mike Elwood <melwood@azuredynamics.com>; shrikar dole <shrikardole@yahoo.com>; Thane Heins <thane_heins@yahoo.ca>; Tyler Hamilton <mcmurchie@gmail.com>; RICHARD SYRETT <jackiesyrett@rogers.com>; james@jperrykelly.com; Bill Moore <editor@evworld.com>; Mike Brace <techeditor@evworld.com>; John Lake <cfo@greentv.com>;  mbennett@ultrasystems.com; Mike Collier <lithiumstorage@gmail.com>; Barsilos <barsilos@aol.com>; Babcat Babcat Babcat the Babcat <babcat5@hotmail.com>; Seanna Watson <seanna.watson@gmail.com>; James Kirtley <kirtley@MIT.EDU>; Walter Lewin <lewin@space.mit.edu>; Wolfgang Ketterle <ketterle@MIT.EDU>; Markus Zahn <zahn@mit.edu>; ehsani@ece.tamu.edu; alireza.bakhshai@queensu.ca; Brian.Fleck@ualberta.ca; pfrise@uwindsor.ca; David Mann <david.m5561@gmail.com>; J. Shin <jshin@alcor.concordia.ca>; M. Ehsani <ehsani@mail.ece.tamu.edu>; Theodore Gray <theodore@wolfram.com>; Eric Poisson <epoisson@uoguelph.ca>; James Eberhardt <James.Eberhardt@ee.doe.gov>; Anna Jaffe <ajaffe@mit.edu>; Mitchell Olszewski <olszewskim@ornl.gov>; jackiesyrett@rogers.com; Kyle White <Kyle.White@calgary.ca>; rhabash@site.uottawa.ca; dean@eng.uottawa.ca; Emil M.Petriu <petriu@site.uottawa.ca>; ted.sargent@utoronto.ca; Catherine Shearer-Kudel <cshearerkudel@ocepp.ca>; Josie Rubino <jrubino@ocepp.ca>; Steven Novella <stevennovella@comcast.net>; GiovanniFusina <Giovanni.Fusina@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>; EloisYaxley <elois@newdata.ca>; steven.novella@yale.edu; Robert Clark <ace@vescell.com>; Jérôme_DANGMANN <jerome.mog@free.fr>; Sterling Allan <sterlingda@pureenergysystems.com>; Patrick Timpone <patrick@1radionetwork.com>; JoanneSchnurr <jschnurr@ctv.ca>; pbrent@ctv.ca
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 03:47:19 PM by CRANKYpants »

CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #243 on: October 06, 2011, 03:43:22 PM »
Subject: WOLDWIDE COLLABORATIVE ENERGY RESEARCH INVITATION

"We can't set up independent scientific juries every time a company or individual comes forward and makes a extraordinary claim about a technology that can benefit the world."  ~ Tyler Hamiltom

Actually we CAN and we ARE and EVERYONE is invited to attend and collaborate. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301879#new 
 
If you want to see generators which ACCELERATE ON-LOAD or transformers which supply power to a load with a REDUCTION IN POWER CONSUMPTION it is all here and you can join in (teach and learn) while maintaining your anonymity.
 
GENERATOR WHICH ACCELERATES ON-LOAD AND USES LESS POWER
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzxc3Ai4T3A
 
TRANSFORMER WHICH USES LESS POWER ON-LOAD
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kluw71YC5p4
 
"You think I'm an arrogant [expletive] who thinks he's above the law, and I think you're a slime bucket [journalist] who gets most of his facts wrong." ~ Steve Jobs
 
Kind Regards
Thane

To: Tyler Hamilton <mcmurchie@gmail.com>; tyler@cleanbreak.ca; jackiesyrett@rogers.com
Cc: editor@thevarsity.ca; scott.anderson@utoronto.ca; stacey.gibson@utoronto.ca; city@thestar.ca; tepeditors@thestar.ca; wheels@thestar.ca; haigscience@gmail.com; haigscience@hotmail.com; nwild@umich.edu; contact_us@solarenspace.com; ecelkis@umich.edu; michaelb@umich.edu; paul@saffo.com; ffish@wcupa.edu; robmac@yorku.ca; jackel@yorku.ca; lehn@ecf.utoronto.ca; edbeards@ufto.com; chair@physics.utoronto.ca



gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #244 on: October 06, 2011, 05:05:59 PM »

I NOTICED THAT IN THE VIDEO YOU SAY THAT, "THE PRIMARY CURRENT DOES NOT CHANGE"
WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE IT ACTUALLY DROPS BY 0.2 mA FROM NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD?  8)

AM I CORRECT IN WHAT I AM OBSERVING?

I DON'T THINK A CURRENT DROP SHOULD BE UNDERESTIMATED SINCE IT MEANS THAT:

THE SECONDARY DELAYED BEMF FLUX IS ACTUALLY INCREASING THE PRIMARY IMPEDANCE CAUSING THE CURRENT TO DROP (REDUCING PRIMARY HEAT AND LOSSES WHILE INCREASING EFFICIENCY

Hi Thane,

Yes you are correct ... it's dropping!
It can be controlled by the AC Frequency sent to the Primary. A higher Frequency will Increase the Primary Impedance even more but it will also start Lowering the Secondary's Current Output Efficiency. So I tuned to have closest to a zero effect on the Primary so the Secondary can stays efficient.

As you know the Delayed Lenz Effect is best when the Secondary has most load (short circuit). Then the Frequency can be dropped much more and still have no Effect on the Primary.

The other interesting thing is this morning I thought of connecting the MOT in REVERSE.
That is, to use the Secondary as Primary and the Primary as Secondary.
The Lenz Delay works the same in this configuration, except you need to send more Voltage to the High Impedance Coil. However, the Current is now in the Micro Amps so who cares.
So if you don't want to work with High Voltage output, use it in this configuration and the low Impedance Coil is Low Voltage but High Current.

Luc

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #245 on: October 06, 2011, 05:28:13 PM »
Hi Luc,

Wonderful video.

Would it be too much trouble to ask to see the scope when the load is applied?

Thanks, Garry

Hi Garry,

I didn't show the Scope Shot when the Secondary is under load as it would probably confuse people.

This is what confused me in all my Prior tests using my SG output through a Shunt Resistor and looking at the RMS reading across it when the Secondary is under load.
The Shunt's RMS readings on the Scope are higher when under load at the Lower Frequencies. It was only at 4.8kHz that the RMS value on the Shunt dropped. However, I can now see that's not the case. Using my H-Bridge and Special Current Meter has revealed that.

If you still wish to see the Scope Shot I'll post it but I don't want to hear what I just explained.

I trust my Special DC Meter more than any Osillyscope ;D

Let me know

Luc
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 06:00:57 PM by gotoluc »

CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #246 on: October 06, 2011, 05:28:36 PM »
Hi Thane,

Yes you are correct ... it's dropping!
As you know the Delayed Lenz Effect is best when the Secondary has most load (short circuit). Then the Frequency can be dropped much more and still have no Effect on the Primary.

The other interesting thing is this morning I thought of connecting the MOT in REVERSE.
That is, to use the Secondary as Primary and the Primary as Secondary.
The Lenz Delay works the same in this configuration, Luc

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE BiTT AT OTTAWA UNIVERSITY WAS DESIGNED: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/35/RbRPCt1-WwQ WITH A 300 OHM PRIMARY.

NEXT STOP... INFINITELY EFFICIENT BiTTS WHICH CONSUME ONLY REACTIVE POWER AND DELIVER REAL POWER TO THE LOADShttp://www.magmet.com/cutcore.php

CHEERS
T

ramset

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #247 on: October 06, 2011, 05:32:49 PM »
Oy Vey
The Boss is inviting the whole world to see Overnudity!!
Looks like I'll be cleaning the bathrooms around here  A lot more
than usual...........
CinderFellah indeed !!

Chet

garrypm

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #248 on: October 06, 2011, 07:19:33 PM »
Luc,

Forever the gentleman.

Thanks for the offer to show the shots.

Now I understand, there is no need.

Thanks, Garry

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #249 on: October 06, 2011, 08:29:23 PM »
At everyone,

here are 2 Scope Shots with a 49vdc input to H-Bridge @54ma set at 1.28kHz.

At this Frequency the MOT has Zero change in current when the Secondary is under Load (7 watts 120v bulb used in last video)

First Scope Shot is with Green Probe across Primary and Yellow Probe across Open Secondary

Second Scope Shot is with Green Probe across Primary and Yellow Probe across Loaded Secondary (bulb)

BTW, for anyone is interested I changed my 4 MOSFET's on the H-Bridge from IRF640N to IRF540N.
At this Frequency the H-Bridge now consumes 60ua (idle) compared to 120ua prior this small change.

Luc

gyulasun

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #250 on: October 06, 2011, 10:41:45 PM »
Hi Luc,

Would like to comment a few things. 

It can be controlled by the AC Frequency sent to the Primary. A higher Frequency will Increase the Primary Impedance even more but it will also start Lowering the Secondary's Current Output Efficiency. So I tuned to have closest to a zero effect on the Primary so the Secondary can stays efficient. 

I think this behavior comes from the MOT core laminations poor performance at the increasing frequencies. When you have time you may wish to replace the MOT with the ferrite core having the 7.5H inductance and repeat this test.

On your scope shots above:  green trace has 20V/DIV and the square waveform has 3 vertical heights above the zero line and about 2.1 vertical heights downwards, this gives 5.1 x 20V= 102V peak to peak and the scope displays 208V peak to peak, about twice as many? 
The same goes for the yellow trace, it is set to 1kV/DIV and the peak to peak is about 3 up and 2 down again, giving 5kV peak to peak, yet it displays 9.97kV, about twice as many again.  This is not a problem now of course, just I noticed... lol

However, when you have to measure some kV amplitudes, then the normal scope probes may not have the correct ratings, having only 600-700V specification,  so these can easily get damaged from the 4-5kV unloaded tests. There are of course HV probe types manufactured for the some kV range but those are more expensive too.

IT is good you have tested this delayed Lenz effect and hopefully with the better toroidal core quality you can find it again and get higher output power (with the MOT, core loss and secondary coil copper resistance are rather high and limiting factors).

Gyula

plengo

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #251 on: October 06, 2011, 11:18:41 PM »
Excellent work Gotluc.

Can you publish the schematic of your H-bridge?

I would like to replicate your work. I do have a MOT and I can build the bridge too.

Thanks,

Fausto.

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #252 on: October 07, 2011, 02:58:06 AM »
When you have time you may wish to replace the MOT with the ferrite core having the 7.5H inductance and repeat this test.

Hi Gyula,

I did make a Primary on the 7.5H Ferrite Toroid and tested it. I posted the results back on page 15 on the bottom of a reply to you:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301782#msg301782

Anyways, it does only normal transformer action. Maybe the effect has somthing to do with the Steel laminations?

On your scope shots above:  green trace has 20V/DIV and the square waveform has 3 vertical heights above the zero line and about 2.1 vertical heights downwards, this gives 5.1 x 20V= 102V peak to peak and the scope displays 208V peak to peak, about twice as many? 
The same goes for the yellow trace, it is set to 1kV/DIV and the peak to peak is about 3 up and 2 down again, giving 5kV peak to peak, yet it displays 9.97kV, about twice as many again.  This is not a problem now of course, just I noticed... lol

I noticed that also. I'll see if they maybe have a newer version of the Software

However, when you have to measure some kV amplitudes, then the normal scope probes may not have the correct ratings, having only 600-700V specification,  so these can easily get damaged from the 4-5kV unloaded tests. There are of course HV probe types manufactured for the some kV range but those are more expensive too.

I do have an expensive High Voltage probe on Channel 2. That's why it's set at x100

Can you have a look at the above Scope Shots as I would like your comments.
Notice on the first Shot how each 50% duty Phases of the H-Bridge to the Primary seem to only effect the Secondary at the beginning of each Phase change. The Secondary seems to have a ringdown like if the rest of the of the on time of the Primary is wasted. Notice on the second Shot (Secondary on load) the voltage on the load drop again like if most of the 50% phase on time is not doing anything to hold the current on the load.

Am I not reading understanding this correctly?

Thanks for your time

Luc

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #253 on: October 07, 2011, 05:55:02 AM »
Excellent work Gotluc.

Can you publish the schematic of your H-bridge?

I would like to replicate your work. I do have a MOT and I can build the bridge too.

Thanks,

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

I'm going to be building a new design of H-Bridge that I can adjust the duty cycle since I'm starting to think there maybe wasted current on the fixed 50% duty cycle.
So you may want to wait a week or two and see how my next build will work out.
I don't have a Schematic for my next build yet, it's just going around in my mind at this time. However, I do have some components on delivery.

But if you want to build the one I have which was designed by Groundloop to use components I had on hand (see below) feel free to do so.

Luc

Here is a link for 5 of the IR2103 for $10 delivered: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-IR2103-DIP-IC-NEW-/190481621070?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5996e04e

futuristic

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #254 on: October 07, 2011, 09:03:55 AM »
If one would use you circuit and hook it up to a signal generator (with variable duty cycle) then no change to circuit is necessary to have a variable duty cycle in output AC signal?
Or am I wrong?

Thank you,
Frenky

EDIT:
I see that the first chip is flipflop so I guess it wouldn't work...