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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 756450 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #990 on: April 14, 2013, 10:12:29 PM »
@MileHigh,
 
"Bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh"
 
Quit trying to pretend that the Tesla "Scrapyard bifilar electromagnet" dosen't really do anything special based on some side tests run by you.
 
.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #991 on: April 14, 2013, 10:41:55 PM »
Synchro1, I am not pretending anything, just sharing information with you.  I can't comment on your "out of the blue" comment about scrapyard electromagnets except to say that scrapyard electromagnets will behave exactly the same way as an electromagnet on your bench.

To be helpful, I did a search on "ampere turn" for you.   This is from one of the first few links:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It has been found that an electric current sets up a magnetic field
 similar to that produced by a permanent magnet. This action is known as
 Electromagnetism and is very important in many devices. A desirable
 feature of electromagnetism is that it is possible to control the strength
 and polarity of the magnetic field. When current exists in a coil, the coil
 has all the magnetic qualities of a permanent magnet and is called an
 Electromagnet. If this electromagnet is brought near a permanent
 magnet or another electromagnet, the like and unlike poles react exactly
 as explained for the permanent magnets. Moreover, an increase of current
 in the coil increases the strength of the magnetic field, and a decrease
 of current weakens the field.
 
 Ampere-Turns:
 
 When the number of loops or turns of the coil is increased and the
 current remains the same, the strength of the magnetic field increases.
 Each loop or turn of the coil sets up it's own magnetic field, which unites
 with the fields of the other loops to produce the field around the entire
 coil. The more loops, the more magnetic fields unite and reinforce each other
 and, as a result, the total magnetic field becomes stronger.
 
 To compare the magnetic strength of different coils, and to obtain
 a basis for measuring the magnetomotive force of an electromagnet, the number
 of turns of wire is multiplied by the number of amperes of current carried
 by the wire and the result is called Ampere-Turns (NI). The ampere-turn
 is the unit for measuring the magnetomotive force of a current-carrying
 coil. In a formula, the magnetomotive force in ampere-turns can be expressed
 as:
 F = NI
 F = magnetomotive force in ampere-turns
 N = number of turns
 I = current in amperes
 For example:
 A coil with 10 turns and a current of 10 amperes has an F of 100
 ampere-turns.
 
 The above excerpted from: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/boyce_smith/magnets.htm
 
 Ampere-turns per meter is just as it reads, the number of ampere turns per length of the electromagnetic coil.
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now, armed with that information, can you state what the mistake is in the clip that you linked to?

MileHigh

Offline skycollection

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #992 on: April 15, 2013, 01:47:31 AM »
Hi Conrad, you are wrong with your conclussions and measurments, we need technology to make a prediction of the results,please not confuse more to the people, i will make an analisis of the pancake coil in the best laboratory in the world very soon...! saludos jorge.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #993 on: April 15, 2013, 03:07:44 AM »
View this as a concept:

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #994 on: April 15, 2013, 03:22:38 AM »
One important thing to note...

One cannot test the difference between a bifilar coil vs a single filar coil just using a bifilar coil wired differently for each test. ;)

You have to have 2 separate coils, 1 wound and connected series bifi and one wound single filar with each having a total number of the same wire turns. Example, single filar is 100 turns of single strand, and the bifi is 50 turns of 2 strands equaling the same amount of wire on each bobbin, just connected differently.

There is a difference in how these coils react to input.

Mags

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #995 on: April 15, 2013, 09:38:09 AM »
Hi Conrad, you are wrong with your conclussions and measurments, we need technology to make a prediction of the results,please not confuse more to the people, i will make an analisis of the pancake coil in the best laboratory in the world very soon...! saludos jorge.

@jorge: please tell us the input power (Volt and Ampere) to your drive circuit as shown in your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP-k-AW-ejM

Your pancake coils are very interesting, but one should compare input (to your drive circuit moving the rotor) and output (from your pancake coils).

In case you plan to publish test results from the "best laboratory in the world" please take care to show input power and output power.

I am not confusing the people, I am asking very straight forward questions.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Lakes

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #996 on: April 15, 2013, 10:45:57 AM »
View this as a concept:
Beautiful graphic!

Offline PiCéd

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #997 on: April 15, 2013, 12:15:43 PM »
Skycollection, you must try something with your first video, the lonely maget replaced by a coil who can spin must be a good way.

We can see in your video that you are a little less energy at the end, well if the energy calculated is the input.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 02:16:06 PM by PiCéd »

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #998 on: April 15, 2013, 02:41:50 PM »
Here's the nail core paper clip test: Zoom in. This experiment demonstrates "THE EXTRA POWER'" in the Nicola Tesla patented bifilar electromagnet. Scrap yard magnet secret revealed!
 
The Bifilar, with the same amount of voltage picks up twice the number of paper clips, and "Doubles" the magnetic power.

Offline crazycut06

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #999 on: April 15, 2013, 03:41:22 PM »
A simple experiment to see the power of bifi coils... :o
Thanks for sharing!


Regards
Cc

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #1000 on: April 15, 2013, 05:05:30 PM »
Synchro1 and Crazycut06:

You know the old cliche, you have to be very careful about what you read on the Internet.

The "Tesla bifilar electromagnet" stuff is bogus.  Have either of you done the experiment?  There is no reason that it should work.

I explained that the strength of a magnetic field for an electromagnet is determined by the ampere-turns.  In that document you can see that both wire configurations around the nail will give you the same number of ampere-turns.  Therefore both electromagnets will have the same strength.

Here is a big clue about the quality of the web site:

Quote
The same amount of voltage, from the same battery, produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil.  This is just one of the many techniques Nikola Tesla used to make his inventions highly efficient.

The magnetic field is not produced by voltage, the magnetic field is produced by current.  It's a subtle difference but it is still significant.  If the guy or girl that put up that web page really knew what they are talking about they would not have made that mistake.  Likewise, there is no "production of energy" associated with this, it's completely wrong to state that.  They use the term "efficient" without qualifying it so it is meaningless.  They are just using Tesla's name to make some money.

Because of this you should be very wary of that web site.  To me it looks like a junk web site created in the year 2000.  It just sits there to get some hits so that it can generate a bit of advertising revenue when people click through the ads.

If you don't believe me about the "Tesla bifilar windings" for an electromagnet, by all means do some testing yourself.  You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the wiring is "bifilar,"  the only thing that counts is the ampere-turns.

If you don't believe me and won't be doing the tests, then please explain why a "Tesla bifilar winding" to make an electromagnet is better than ordinary winding.  After all, when you think about it there is no real difference between the windings.  The "bifilar" business is the same deal as the graphic that Synchro1 posted for the "bifilar" coil.  It's just an interleaved wiring of the coil, it's not truly bifilar.

The real point is that it's important to consider all the information coming at you and look at it in a logical fashion and evaluate it on a case-by-case basis.  There is a lot of junk information out there no matter what you are researching.  So you want to try to separate out the good information from the junk information.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #1001 on: April 15, 2013, 06:03:52 PM »
@MileHigh,
 
            Why don't you perform the experiment to expose it as fake? You're the "Gadfly" in the face of basic fundamentals practically everyone else already learned about. 
 
              The coil increases the field strength without the increased current draw as you infer, or no one would have any use for the coil design. How do you explain it's broad industrial application as an electromagnet. if there's no advantage to it?
 
This is a quote:
 

                 "Bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh".
 
You infer that the bifilar coil would draw twice the current as the single wrap coil of equal Ohms, if both coils were shorted accross input electrodes! Explain how the bifilar coil magicly doubles it's resistance to consume twice the current? You're saying one of those nail core coils has twice the resistance as the other with the same wire length. Think about it!
 
The increased magnetc field is a result of Lorentz effect quanta mechanics, not the result of higher current draw.
 
Go ahead and do the 10 minute experiment! Get a second "D" cell battery. Connect them in parallel untill the voltage levels off. Hook them up to the coils holding the paper clips, then measure and compare voltages. It won't take long for twice the watt consumption to register a voltage differential between the batteries if your purblind theory's correct.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 11:22:55 PM by synchro1 »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #1002 on: April 16, 2013, 01:01:15 AM »
Synchro1:

Actually I am more of a basic fundamentals guy!  lol

Quote
The coil increases the field strength without the increased current draw as you infer, or no one would have any use for the coil design. How do you explain it's broad industrial application as an electromagnet.

Can you show some links for the broad industrial application of quasi-bifilar coils for electromagnets?  I tried on Google for a while but I couldn't find any.

Quote
"Bifilar windings are used at metal scrap yards as electromagnets since they do more work per kwh".

Do you have a reference for this?

Quote
You infer that the bifilar coil would draw twice the current as the single wrap coil of equal Ohms, if both coils were shorted accross input electrodes! Explain how the bifilar coil magicly doubles it's resistance to consume twice the current? You're saying one of those nail core coils has twice the resistance as the other with the same wire length. Think about it!

I didn't say that, perhaps you misunderstood me.  We are always talking about a "pseudo" or "quasi" bifilar coil, right?  It's just one conductor with interlaced windings.  Sort of like an old NTSC or PAL video frame with odd and even fields.  What I said is that the interlacing will not make a significant change as compared to a regularly wound coil assuming the same number of turns for the vast majority of coil applications.  That is the key point.  Do you agree with that?

Quote
Go ahead and do the 10 minute experiment! Get a second "D" cell battery. Connect them in parallel untill the voltage levels off. Hook them up to the coils holding the paper clips, then measure and compare voltages. It won't take long for twice the watt consumption to register a voltage differential between the batteries if your purblind theory's correct.

I don't really understand what your point is here or understand what your setup is.  Could you make a schematic and show what voltages you want to compare?  I am actually pretty knowledgeable about electronics, did you see my comments on Conrad's scope shots?

MileHigh

Offline crazycut06

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #1003 on: April 16, 2013, 02:27:37 AM »
Synchro1 and Crazycut06:

You know the old cliche, you have to be very careful about what you read on the Internet.

The "Tesla bifilar electromagnet" stuff is bogus.  Have either of you done the experiment?  There is no reason that it should work.

I explained that the strength of a magnetic field for an electromagnet is determined by the ampere-turns.  In that document you can see that both wire configurations around the nail will give you the same number of ampere-turns.  Therefore both electromagnets will have the same strength.

Here is a big clue about the quality of the web site:

The magnetic field is not produced by voltage, the magnetic field is produced by current.  It's a subtle difference but it is still significant.  If the guy or girl that put up that web page really knew what they are talking about they would not have made that mistake.  Likewise, there is no "production of energy" associated with this, it's completely wrong to state that.  They use the term "efficient" without qualifying it so it is meaningless.  They are just using Tesla's name to make some money.

Because of this you should be very wary of that web site.  To me it looks like a junk web site created in the year 2000.  It just sits there to get some hits so that it can generate a bit of advertising revenue when people click through the ads.

If you don't believe me about the "Tesla bifilar windings" for an electromagnet, by all means do some testing yourself.  You will quickly come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if the wiring is "bifilar,"  the only thing that counts is the ampere-turns.

If you don't believe me and won't be doing the tests, then please explain why a "Tesla bifilar winding" to make an electromagnet is better than ordinary winding.  After all, when you think about it there is no real difference between the windings.  The "bifilar" business is the same deal as the graphic that Synchro1 posted for the "bifilar" coil.  It's just an interleaved wiring of the coil, it's not truly bifilar.

The real point is that it's important to consider all the information coming at you and look at it in a logical fashion and evaluate it on a case-by-case basis.  There is a lot of junk information out there no matter what you are researching.  So you want to try to separate out the good information from the junk information.

MileHigh


Hi MileHigh,
I cannot despute you on this as i don't have enough experience with this bifi coil, i'll look for a video that i saw where he used a single turn coil versus a mutifilar one.
Thanks for the brief warning...
Regards
Cc

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #1004 on: April 16, 2013, 03:22:31 AM »
@MileHigh.
 
Here's a hyperlink to the experiment. Use two batteries and compare voltages. You don't have any right to insult this labtester. He's been around, he's a PHD and above reproach. Who do you think you are compared to him to humiliate him as a "Junk knowledge" hoaxter? Check out his web site. This experiment has been replicated by plenty of people who think you're really dumb. Get with it.
 
http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm