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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 779447 times)

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #600 on: February 27, 2013, 07:36:22 AM »

Hi hoptoad,
Since you are the author of this blog, i'm sure you have explored the AUL effect more than us Here,
Is there a posibility of overunity with this effect?


Regards
Cc

Possibility - I'd like to think it may be possible ......  Probability ? That's another prospect altogether.

I'm sad to say that all my research thus far has yielded a zero result. Based only on my own personal experience, I'd say the probability in favour of OU is negligible to almost nil. - But still possible (maybe) LOL

Cheers

Offline crazycut06

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #601 on: February 27, 2013, 12:01:48 PM »
Possibility - I'd like to think it may be possible ......  Probability ? That's another prospect altogether.

I'm sad to say that all my research thus far has yielded a zero result. Based only on my own personal experience, I'd say the probability in favour of OU is negligible to almost nil. - But still possible (maybe) LOL

Cheers


Thank you for the quick reply, it sounds like you have given up on this?  ;)


Regards
Cc

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #602 on: February 27, 2013, 01:54:59 PM »
You may find this explanation satisfactory (written in 2007) ...... then again you may not ! ..... LOL

http://www.totallyamped.net/adams

Go to Page 11 for an explanation of the speed up under load effect (AUL).

Cheers

Toad that is really funny, because it was the Adams and Muller devices that brought me to your article and got me started on all this, you may remember my emails before i realised you were on OU.com ;+}


DC.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #603 on: February 27, 2013, 02:32:43 PM »
One thing i've been pondering.

The 2LB coil i wound (bifilar/series), when shorted and presented to the rotor caused the following changes to frequency and input current :

Frequency : Dropped from 486Hz to 482Hz (0.8% drop)
Input Current : Rose from 410mA to 413mA (0.73% rise)

This coil was producing 4.2 watts of power (measured by DMM and analogue meter) to an incandescent bulb load  and caused very small changes to rotor speed and input current.

Presumably two such coils would cause around a 2% drop in RPM and a 2% rise in current draw and give us a little less than double that figure of 4.2 watts, lets be conservative and say that two coils output 8 watts of power or even 7.5.

The input to the rotor started at 18VDC @ 410mA = 7.38 watts.

Still waiting on my perspex parts, they should have arrived by now.


Cheers,

DC.


Offline hoptoad

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #604 on: February 27, 2013, 09:33:06 PM »
Thank you for the quick reply, it sounds like you have given up on this?  ;)
Regards
Cc

I've given up personally trying to achieve O/U with these sorts of motor circuits, but I still like to see what others are up to.
The research by others has still been enlightening. Sometimes for what is discovered and sometimes for what is disproved.
Cheers

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #605 on: February 28, 2013, 03:45:24 PM »
Hi synchro1,

If I got you correctly, you rotated a diametrically magnetized cylinder magnet (fixed axially on ceramic bearings) by a bifilarly wound coil. And a reed switch connected in series with the coil insured the correct pole should appear to the coming magnet pole and here I assume a simple attract mode?

This is very interesting because even if you had no output coil, the mass of the rotor magnet obviously needed work to maintain the 25k rpm while you noticed the current draw dropped to zero.  I wonder if you can repeat this test any time or it was a single phenomena?  IS it ok to consider a zero current draw indeed or it went down to the some mA range versus the some ten or hundred mA draw while speeding up? 

Thanks,  Gyula


I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #606 on: February 28, 2013, 04:00:43 PM »
I wound a thread spool with a bifilar wrap, series wired, and powered a 1/2" diametric tube magnet on 1/4" ceramic bearings. The coil was wired in series to a Reed switch and a 12 volt 6 amp hour Radio Shack battery and an amp meter. I Laser tached the reflective tape marked magnet spinner. At 25k, a burst of speed developed that practically doubled the r.p.m's while the amp draw dropped to zero. I called this effect Lenz propulsion, and developed a theory. No output coil was present. What's this say about a baseline?

Hi synchro1,

thanks for posting your interesting result. Could you post a video to show the burst effect. Also a picture of your setup would be helpful.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #607 on: February 28, 2013, 04:07:32 PM »
These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch and 3/8" diametric tube magnet.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 08:12:50 PM by synchro1 »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #608 on: February 28, 2013, 04:10:57 PM »
One thing i've been pondering.

The 2LB coil i wound (bifilar/series), when shorted and presented to the rotor caused the following changes to frequency and input current :

Frequency : Dropped from 486Hz to 482Hz (0.8% drop)
Input Current : Rose from 410mA to 413mA (0.73% rise)

This coil was producing 4.2 watts of power (measured by DMM and analogue meter) to an incandescent bulb load  and caused very small changes to rotor speed and input current.

Presumably two such coils would cause around a 2% drop in RPM and a 2% rise in current draw and give us a little less than double that figure of 4.2 watts, lets be conservative and say that two coils output 8 watts of power or even 7.5.

The input to the rotor started at 18VDC @ 410mA = 7.38 watts.

Still waiting on my perspex parts, they should have arrived by now.


Cheers,

DC.

Hi DC,

good experiments you have going.
One thing I noticed is, the lower the resistance (load) on the shorted coil the less effect it has on the prime mover. You mentioned you have a bulb as load. That may go up to 10 ohms or more when lit. Try a 30 watt 1 ohm resistor instead. The coil may now have zero effect on the prime mover.
Let us know how that worked or if I have misunderstood your test.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #609 on: February 28, 2013, 04:17:54 PM »
These are pictures of perhaps the World's first Internaly Motorized Alternator, minus the output wrap.

Left to right:

1- View of the 3/4 inch spinner in the 2 1/2 inch PVC core.
2- Miniature 1/4 O.D. , 1/8 I.D. all ceramic bearing on top of a Radio Shack 12 volt 6 amp hour battery.
3- Position of the 12 volt Reed Switch on the Hi Voltage Spool Coil. Pins should point away from the magnet..
4- Top secured for runing with coil seated down partly inside the output core.
5- The six main componants: Power coil on core, 1/8 inch brass axel, ceramic bearing, battery and Reed Switch

WOW, that was fast!... thanks for the pictures synchro1 ;)

Could you do a video demo?

Thanks for sharing

Luc

ADDED: just noticed you added other pictures, thanks that helps. I'm interested as to what the CD's are used for.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #610 on: February 28, 2013, 04:27:13 PM »
The pictures are out of order, but the descriptions identify them. The key element to this unit is the precision ceramic bearing from Bocas. I only use one in the center.
 
The coil pole of the bifilar is determined by the magnet pole facing it.
 
I'm in Costa Rica now away from the shop. Try reading from this thread:
 
 http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html
 
@Gotoluc,
 
The C.D.'s just hold the coil in position over the magnet spinner. The r.p.m.'s are way over the switching speed for the Radio Shack reed switch. You have to manipulate the coil by moving it up, down and around to stay on the sweet spot!

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #611 on: February 28, 2013, 04:36:59 PM »
The pictures are out of order, but the descriptions identify them. The key element to this unit is the precision ceramic bearing from Bocas. I only use one in the center.
 
The coil pole of the bifilar is determined by the magnet pole facing it.
 
I'm in Costa Rica now away from the shop. Try reading from this thread:
 
 http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/4026-one-magnet-no-bearing-bedini-motor-25.html

Okay synchro1 thanks. Costa Rica is a beautiful place!

I'll read up on the topic.

Thanks for sharing

Luc


@Gotoluc,
 The C.D.'s just hold the coil in position over the magnet spinner. The r.p.m.'s are way over the switching speed for the Radio Shack reed switch. You have to manipulate the coil by moving it up, down and around to stay on the sweet spot!

Thanks for adding that. I was also wondering how the reed switch can handle that kind of speed.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #612 on: February 28, 2013, 04:53:01 PM »
Hi DC,

good experiments you have going.
One thing I noticed is, the lower the resistance (load) on the shorted coil the less effect it has on the prime mover. You mentioned you have a bulb as load. That may go up to 10 ohms or more when lit. Try a 30 watt 1 ohm resistor instead. The coil may now have zero effect on the prime mover.
Let us know how that worked or if I have misunderstood your test.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi Luc,

looking forward to when you have a lab up and running again :)

Your suggestion is good and would probably work, but i am working toward a coil that can cope with a wide range of loads, not just getting it to overspeed the rotor.


Cheers,

DC.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #613 on: February 28, 2013, 05:15:25 PM »
Hi Luc,

looking forward to when you have a lab up and running again :)

Your suggestion is good and would probably work, but i am working toward a coil that can cope with a wide range of loads, not just getting it to overspeed the rotor.


Cheers,

DC.

Thanks for the reply DC

Keep us updated of your findings.  My research shows that as resistance increases the positive effect decreases. Would love to see the opposite ;D

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #614 on: February 28, 2013, 05:55:33 PM »
Thanks for the reply DC

Keep us updated of your findings.  My research shows that as resistance increases the positive effect decreases. Would love to see the opposite ;D

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Yes exactly, it's all in the time-constant of the coil, so the higher the resistance, the less retarded the TC is.

That's why i am aiming for a high TC of around 100ms.

Aside from the TC, as you know it's also the frequency you drive the coils at.

I've driven them from 200 to 500 Hertz and the effect just gets better, the stronger the CEMF, the stronger the effect.

One important point to note is that there is no cycle from acceleration-under-load to deceleration-under-load as the frequency is driven higher.

This is a very important point as it implies the effect is not solely due to CEMF peaking at just the right time, when the magnet is just at the right position.

The effect is happening regardless of magnet position at rise-time.

I've made a spreadsheet with it all there, the properties of the rotor and magnets as well as the mechanical maths to see how far a magnet would have travelled in x amount of TC units, anyone can use it for any rotor :

http://www.mediafire.com/?bjlt2njkf3n69tr

Some of my perspex has arrived, i can't begin testing until my coil plates arrive tho. Hopefully this weekend.


All the best,

DC.