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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 884801 times)

rogla

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2011, 09:48:17 PM »
I am performing a 3D Maxwell simulations right now to get the 3 stages you mentioned.
As soon as I have them finalized I will post them here, so we can discuss.

Aha, ok, I did a simple test with two of my coils and my oscilloscope. A generator coil that generates volage behaves diffrent from a solenoid! Because the voltage is in the other direction in a generator, the resulting current lags the voltage in the cirquite. Same direction as for the capacitor. I think this is what you mean. Thanks, teslaalset, I wasn't aware. I stillbe live in the basic idea, diffrent timing. Still fun to learn!

PS. Now I'm thinking of switching a transformer to be able to get phase shift in the other direction. I think I have to finish my evaluation platform and do all my planned tests before I get involved in discussions like this and get new ideas. DS.

teslaalset

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2011, 10:22:12 PM »
Aha, ok, I did a simple test with two of my coils and my oscilloscope. A generator coil that generates volage behaves diffrent from a solenoid! Because the voltage is in the other direction in a generator, the resulting current lags the voltage in the cirquite. Same direction as for the capacitor. I think this is what you mean. Thanks, teslaalset, I wasn't aware. I stillbe live in the basic idea, diffrent timing. Still fun to learn!

You got the hang of it.
Current through the coil shapes the total flux.
Current through the capacitor does not create flux.

My sims take forever, so probably they will not be finished today, but I will post them later on.
It's still educating stuff, also for other members that still want to know.

I can already forecast that anyone that can get the current leading to the flux in a coil of such a device will have a running ZPE device.

Overunityguide

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2011, 10:47:41 PM »
@toranarod,

Really nice work, very impressive. I Like your setup especially with the brushless engine outer runner.

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kluw71YC5p4

rogla

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2011, 12:34:34 AM »
@teslaalset
I appreciate that you are willing to help. I really want to understand everyting I get intrested in in detail.

I think we booth was thinking of a capacitor bank in series with a coil.
In that case I understand that the phase shift can be max 90 deg and min 0 deg with a large capacitor bank (voltage in the generator coil is 180 deg compared to a solenoid).

But what if the capacitor is in parallel with the coil?
In this case, the voltage in the coil is clamped to the voltage in the capacitor.
If the impedance in the coil and capacitor is equal, the resulting phase shift is 0.
If the impedance of the capacitor is much larger than the coil, the current is 90 deg before voltage.
Any opinion on this?

In my mind, it is some basic configurations that produce phase shift (of current and thus flux in coil). I think it is possible to combine two of them or possibly only use one of them in combination with disconnet/short the coil for a part of the wave, by switching.  This is my goal, to really understand how diffrent setups impacts the phase shift in the generator coil.


mariuscivic

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2011, 12:07:44 AM »
Hi!
Is this the delayed lenz?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhWVBpPGO1M

toranarod

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2011, 01:36:36 AM »
@teslaalset
I appreciate that you are willing to help. I really want to understand everyting I get intrested in in detail.

I think we booth was thinking of a capacitor bank in series with a coil.
In that case I understand that the phase shift can be max 90 deg and min 0 deg with a large capacitor bank (voltage in the generator coil is 180 deg compared to a solenoid).

But what if the capacitor is in parallel with the coil?
In this case, the voltage in the coil is clamped to the voltage in the capacitor.
If the impedance in the coil and capacitor is equal, the resulting phase shift is 0.
If the impedance of the capacitor is much larger than the coil, the current is 90 deg before voltage.
Any opinion on this?

In my mind, it is some basic configurations that produce phase shift (of current and thus flux in coil). I think it is possible to combine two of them or possibly only use one of them in combination with disconnet/short the coil for a part of the wave, by switching.  This is my goal, to really understand how diffrent setups impacts the phase shift in the generator coil.

My opinion is 0 may be the best you can hope for . this is why I think a dead short works 0 volts current at Max. If Only you could make a coil behave like a capacitor wouldn't that be great. I have tried many combinations of capacitors at frequencies. I never seen it affect Lenz drag. 
good work. please keep on going if you find something I would love to know.
   

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2011, 05:26:45 AM »
Hello Overunityguide and everyone,

I have had my eye on your topic for a few days now and I find you're doing an excellent job.

It coincides that I have lately been thinking of applying what I personally learned while working with Thane Heins at the Ottawa University a few years back. I'm now considering of re-testing with new core material and biasing magnets.

I'm mostly thinking of applying this. A little over a year ago a researcher posted a
YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuzSkKlnCzc
and also shared his findings at this
Forum: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=399801

What he found was that a coil wound on a Finemet toroid (nanocrystaline) core would increase in Inductance as much as 3 time when approached to a magnet (up to a certain point)

I do have 2 of theses Finemet toroids and will soon be confirming his findings.

The idea here (if this information is correct) would be to use Finemet as core material on Thane's delayed Lenz coil technique. This would give a huge advantage as we could achieve higher than expected Inductance using minimal wire lengths since High Inductance is the Key factor to Thane's coil effect. The benefit to use less wire is cost but more important is that Thane later found reducing coil resistance boosted the coil current output.

I will soon post my findings.

Great work there toranarod! I have also been following your research and progress for some time.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi everyone,

for anyone interested, I started a topic with a video demo on testing what I have posted above.

Link to topic: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11377.new#new

Luc

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2011, 07:06:37 AM »
Double post


teslaalset

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2011, 09:31:09 PM »
Ok, a bit late, but I've got some simulations examples.
I'll start with some basics, I need a bit more time to work on the RLC ciruit sims.

Three attachements:
1) basic setup: one coil, no solid core, just air, rotor with 8 disc magnets all facing North upwards. RPM = 3750, meaning that with 8 rotor magnets freq=500 Hz, T=2ms.
2) flux and current at 100 ohm load. 4, 6 and 8 ms is at TDC (Top Dead Center, magnet center exactly at coil center)
3) flux and current at 1 ohm load, also here 4, 6 and 8 ms at TDC

You'll notice that the 100 ohm version has an almost symmetrical value around TDC.
This means that forces on the rotor will allmost ballance out (sum of the pull moments is equal to the sum of the push moments), but the forces are also small due to the limited amplitude in current caused by the 100 ohm.

For the 1 ohm sorted coil situation is quite different, showing the phase shift of the current.
The delay of the current also causes the total flux to be delayed (Total flux= magnet flux + coil flux)
Here you can notice that the peak of the current is before TDC, causing some extra drag to the rotor), since the amplitude of the current is significantly higher.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 09:24:23 AM by teslaalset »

Kator01

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2011, 02:41:41 AM »
Folks,

post 1554 by kajunkreations conains a link which leads to a french forum infecting you computer with a trojan- Please see attached pic. Can someone please post this info there as I am not a member in the energeticforum.com

Regards

Kator01

Overunityguide

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2011, 07:53:37 PM »
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziS_o6gSnQ

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2011, 04:20:27 AM »
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziS_o6gSnQ

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Great video and explanation.

So do you think if a generator had a large diameter rotor with 200 magnet we would be able to get the delayed flyback with low Impedance low Resistance generator coils?
Or do you think it is better to go high RPM and less magnets?

Thanks for doing these experiments and sharing.

Luc

Low-Q

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #72 on: September 11, 2011, 11:14:25 AM »
Hi You All,

Please See my Latest Video About: 'How to Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziS_o6gSnQ

This Video demonstrates how we can calculate the desired Delayed Lenz Effect, and shows that the experimental results of my previous video about: the Difference between Loading and Shorting the Regenerative Acceleration Generator coil can be explained and can be calculated. So than again high impedance is really important. And the Lenz Delay can be calculated by L/R

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Did you measure the L in the coils, or calculated it from the windings and dimensions?

I have problems with measuring a coil if the internal resistance is too high. The meter is measuring the impedance at normally 1kHz. If the internal resistance is high, it will affect the L-readings to make me believe L is higher than it actually is. This will also affect the calculations of "Tau" the time constant you are refering to in the video.

Just thoughts that might make a difference.

EDIT: If you know at which frequency the inductance is measured at, and you know the internal resistence, you might be able to recalculate the "actual" inductance. I will try that when I get back to work - just to see if my assumptions are correct.

Vidar

Overunityguide

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2011, 12:09:59 PM »
Great video and explanation.

So do you think if a generator had a large diameter rotor with 200 magnet we would be able to get the delayed flyback with low Impedance low Resistance generator coils?
Or do you think it is better to go high RPM and less magnets?

Thanks for doing these experiments and sharing.

Luc

@Luc,

Thank you very much.

Personally I think that there can be many different setups in where we can expect the Delayed Lenz Effect to see.
- Very high RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to Lower Inductance
- Medium RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to High Inductance
- Medium to Normal RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/High Induction

But for now I think that the last option is the most practicable to experiment with. But what is important, is that you can calculate the proper Delay by the simple formula: L/R and that you include your Load R within it.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziS_o6gSnQ

gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2011, 09:59:25 PM »
@Luc,

Thank you very much.

Personally I think that there can be many different setups in where we can expect the Delayed Lenz Effect to see.
- Very high RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to Lower Inductance
- Medium RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/Medium to High Inductance
- Medium to Normal RPM/Many Rotor Magnets/High Induction

But for now I think that the last option is the most practicable to experiment with. But what is important, is that you can calculate the proper Delay by the simple formula: L/R and that you include your Load R within it.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Calculate the Delayed Lenz Effect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QziS_o6gSnQ

Hi Overunityguide,

I believe we would get much better current output if using low Inductance coil as the Resistance is much lower.

As far as I can remember Thane's best results were when he had the most rotor magnets he could fit on his rotor, making his own cores 1/2" x 1/2" (square) using new silicon steel transformer laminations so he would have no short between laminations (very important) and the coil would be wound to minimal Inductance (just enough to get acceleration under load at correct RPM).

Minimal Inductance (wire length) = minimal Resistance = most current output
Non shorting steel laminations = less Eddy currents = less rotor drag = less energy in (prime mover)

As far as I know (at this time) these are the the parameters one needs to fine tune to achieve the most efficient Lenz free and Eddy free generator.

One area that has not been explored yet is using more exotic core materials (other than silicon steel) which may give a boost in inductance so we could further reduce wire length and boost current output.

Another area which also needs to be tested is, how much distance do we need between magnets  I find this one to be very important. Do you think a gap between magnets is needed?

Have you connect a scope to your setup to see what's going on? could you do a video of it?

Thanks for sharing

Luc