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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 779645 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #465 on: October 29, 2011, 02:29:04 AM »
Here is the identical setup but connected to the Grid

15uf series capacitor, 1 Ohm Shunt, 10 Ohm Load @ 6.70vac

If this was Saturation then where are those Peaks?

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 03:51:36 AM by gotoluc »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #466 on: October 29, 2011, 03:48:24 AM »
yeah, this is what i remembered seeing - a YT video by user 'selfonlypath' showing results obtained with his 'Transverter' setup (2x MWO trafos modified & connected together, then driven with an 'H' bridge)

  http://www.youtube.com/user/selfonlypath    eg., see 'Transverter 1'


at a combination of resonance and with the i/p volts just passing thro' a threshold, the o/p sine wave 'snaps' into a more triangular waveform with elongated peaks

the snapshot below captures the moment when the o/p changes from a sine to a 'triangular' wave with peaks

cheers
np

Thanks nul-points for posting this video once again. It was posted on page 14 by plengo: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11350.msg301689#msg301689

This great researcher explains and demonstrates that one needs an accurate timing circuit to recover energy from a Reactive circuit.

I have said and I believe we are subject to the same.

Anyone interested should study this technique and post their ideas of a recovery/recirculating circuit.

Thanks for sharing

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 05:06:15 AM by gotoluc »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #467 on: October 29, 2011, 05:12:24 AM »
THIS POST WAS EDITED

under load it's at 1,130ma
Luc

IS THIS 1.13 mA OR IS IT 1.13 A?
IT WOULD BE NICE IF WAS 1.13 mA BECAUSE YOU EFFICIENCY WOULD BE 32297.3%  8).

OTHERWISE INPUT CURRENT = 720 mA AND PRIMARY DC RESISTANCE = 0.3 OHMS
IF PRIMARY POWER FACTOR IS INDEED 0.0 THEN Pp = 0.216 WATTS WITH AN EFFICIENCY OF ONLY 2078.2%.  :-[

IF THE PHASE SHIFT IS 81 DEGREES (AS I SEE IT) PF = 0.15 AND IF Pcurrent = 727 mA AND Pvoltage = 112 V THEN

Pin = 112 x 0.727 x 0.15 

= 12.7 WATTS AND Pout = 4.49 WATTS AND EFFICIENCY = 35.4%  :'(
A PHASE SHIFT OF 87 DEGREES OR PF = 0.052 GIVES AN EFFICIENCY OF 105%.

IF THE DC INPUT CURRENT IS 1.13 A AND THE DC VOLTAGE IS 12.3 VOLTS THEN THE EFFICIENCY IS 32.3%

PLEASE EXPAND YOUR TIME AXIS SO:

1) WE ONLY SEE 1/2 OF THE SINE WAVE (180 DEGREES) AND THEN
2) EXPAND THE VOLT/DIV SO THE LINES ARE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN AND THEN
3) MAKE THE YELLOW LINES EQUAL ON BOTH SIDES.

NOW WE CAN CALCULATE THE PHASE ANGLE CORRECTLY.

ALSO NOTE POSITION OF RED "POWER" SINE WAVE IS SLIGHTLY HIGHER ON TOP AND NOT QUITE EQUAL FOR A PF OF 0.0 - CAN YOU TWEAK IT WITH ANOTHER CAP VALUE?

CHEERS
T
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 06:10:06 AM by CRANKYpants »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #468 on: October 29, 2011, 07:31:34 AM »
Hi Thane

it is 1.13 Amps and your math seems to be correct.

I always learn new stuff as I go so there is nothing wasted (other than power ;D)... I'm only going to get better at this.

Thanks for everyone's input

Luc

PS hey! nice scope shot. That is the ultimate one. We'll get there

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #469 on: October 29, 2011, 08:38:20 AM »
Hey Thane,

have a look at these Shots

I decided to re-test my GTL-90 compared to the Toroid and the GTL-90 is better

First shot is GTL 90 with 22 ohm shunt, 1uf series cap, 10 ohm load @ 0.42vac

Second shot is Toroid with 22 ohm shunt, 1uf series cap, 10 ohm load @ 0.42vac

Let me know what you think

Luc

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #470 on: October 29, 2011, 12:11:39 PM »
@ Gotuluc: don't worry, I'm not on the drug or anything illicit...

When you posted the first curve page 31, sorry but it was obvious that your MATH curve was totally active (PF=1), you have reedited your post and display a curve which is reactive...

The first curve in your post above is reactive while the second is slightly active...

So the cap have the ability to correct both L and the reflect R in the trafo ?

One problem in this setup: the output power is very low, 0.42 Volts through 10 Ohms is not very much, here a huge risk of measurement error must be take into account before any conclusion...

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #471 on: October 29, 2011, 12:26:28 PM »
Hi Luc,

I accept the 300W toroid transformator cannot show signs of saturation, albeit the scope shots on the current (i.e. voltage drop across the shunt) shows, this is why I suspected starting saturation somewhere in the setup. 
To explore where those spikes on the current peaks may come from it would be good to test the inverter output terminated with a resistor that draws about 1 Amper current from the 118V AC output and see on the 1 Ohm (or 10 Ohm) current shunt whether the spikes are there or not.  I say this test because perhaps the sinewave inverter includes a low pass filter at its output make the sinewave from the 'uggly' switched waveforms and the low pass filter may include a choke coil with a core that may start saturating...  a guess from me, one would not expect such behaviour from a 1000W inverter but those spikes must be caused by something...

Gyula

EDIT  It occured to me a better way would be to load the inverter output with a 22 uF capacitor and see on the 1 Ohm series shunt how the current waveform looks like for a capacitive load (because your resulting load from the series LC was capacitive nature). The 22uF (or near to this value) means a 1 Amper capacitive load current for the inverter output.


Hi Gyula,

you may want to edit your post (if you still can) Please look at the Replacent scope shot above.

Regarding the peaks, it's not Saturation of the core. This is a 300VA Toroid, it takes much more current then that to Saturate it. Also, please note that these peaks only happen when connected to the sine wave Inverter. When connected to Grid there are no Peaks. See post with Grid scope shot on the next page

The Inverter is rated at 1000 Watts Continuous. Paid $300. for it

Thanks for your time

Luc
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 03:24:17 PM by gyulasun »

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #472 on: October 29, 2011, 03:43:52 PM »
Hey Thane,

have a look at these Shots... Let me know what you think

Luc

LUC,

WE NEED TO KNOW HOW HIGH THE TRANSFORMER EFFICIENCY HAS TO BE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE INVERTER EFFICIENCY...  :P

CAN YOU PUT A LOAD IN THE INVERTER AND FILL IN THE BLANKS BELOW SO WE CAN CALCULATE THE EFFICIENCY OF THE INVERTER?

EVERY TEST YOU DO OUGHT TO INCLUDE THE DATA BELOW BECAUSE THAT INVERTER EFFICIENCY CHANGES AS IT HEATS UP RIGHT?

DC INPUT SIDE

DC VOLTAGE =
DC CURRENT =
DC INPUT POWER =

AC OUTPUT SIDE

LOAD RESISTANCE =
LOAD VOLTAGE =
LOAD CURRENT =
LOAD PF =
(DON'T ASSUME YOUR RESISTORS ARE PURELY RESISTIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT)

AC OUTPUT POWER =
DC INPUT POWER =
INVERTER EFFICIENCY = (AC OUTPUT / DC INPUT) x 100 = ? %

CHEERS
T


Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #473 on: October 29, 2011, 03:58:22 PM »
THIS POST WAS EDITED

Amp meter on the 12.2VDC side of the inverter shows the inverter consumes 400mA idle (nothing connected on output) Under load it goes up to 1.130 A
Luc

IF WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON LET'S LOOK AT THE (SOURCE) INPUT REACTION TO LOADING...

DC INPUT CURRENT ON IDLE (NO-LOAD) = 0.4 A
INPUT POWER ON NO-LOAD = 4.88 WATTS

DC INPUT CURRENT ON LOAD = 1.13 A
INPUT POWER ON ON-LOAD = 13.8 WATTS

INPUT POWER INCREASE % NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD = 182%

THIS MEANS THAT THE INVERTER HAS TO WORK HARDER TO DELIVER POWER TO THE LOAD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SCOPE SAYS...

MY SUGGESTION IF I WERE YOU WOULD BE TO DELIVER POWER ON THE AC SIDE WITHOUT ANY CURRENT INCREASE (REACTION) ON THE DC SIDE  ;)

CHEERS
T

PS

IT WOULD ALSO BE GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE IS TO THE INVERTER WITH NO COIL ATTACHED AND THEN WITH COIL ATTACHED?
 

Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #474 on: October 30, 2011, 10:43:52 AM »
@gotoluc

Maybe you should try this driving circuit from Romero at your secondary, it looks promissing...

Generator Coil Speedup Circuit Simulation

In some of the 'acceleration under load' videos Romero showed this attached circuit to be responsible for the speedup effect.
I did a simulation of that replacing Hall sensor with a zener diode.
The result is blinking led with power disipation shown on the right graph and on the left we've got power taken from the rotor...

This can be done in 1:1 transformer too, I think so... ;)

This sim is just an example. You would have to play with parameters (right mouse button on a componetnt to edit) to make it right...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 03:09:33 PM by kEhYo77 »

Offline madddann

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #475 on: October 30, 2011, 10:43:58 PM »
Hi gotoluc!

Could you please make another scope shot with the load 20W or 50W (i'm sure you have some automotive lightbulbs laying around) and with the capacitor retuned, so we can see what the power curve looks like?

Dann

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #476 on: October 31, 2011, 04:43:07 AM »
Let me know what you think
Luc

HAVE YOU SEEN THIS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtI1CPBSm-o&feature=related
USE IT TO DRIVE YOUR PRIMARY?

CHEERS
T

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #477 on: October 31, 2011, 05:57:41 AM »
IF WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON LET'S LOOK AT THE (SOURCE) INPUT REACTION TO LOADING...

DC INPUT CURRENT ON IDLE (NO-LOAD) = 0.4 A
INPUT POWER ON NO-LOAD = 4.88 WATTS

DC INPUT CURRENT ON LOAD = 1.13 A
INPUT POWER ON ON-LOAD = 13.8 WATTS

INPUT POWER INCREASE % NO-LOAD TO ON-LOAD = 182%

THIS MEANS THAT THE INVERTER HAS TO WORK HARDER TO DELIVER POWER TO THE LOAD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SCOPE SAYS...

MY SUGGESTION IF I WERE YOU WOULD BE TO DELIVER POWER ON THE AC SIDE WITHOUT ANY CURRENT INCREASE (REACTION) ON THE DC SIDE  ;)

CHEERS
T

PS

IT WOULD ALSO BE GOOD TO KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT AND VOLTAGE IS TO THE INVERTER WITH NO COIL ATTACHED AND THEN WITH COIL ATTACHED?

Hi Thane,

I've been winterizing my sailboat and cleaning and re-packing my storage as I'm flying out of the Country this Tuesday.

I also returned the sine wave Inverter.

It uses 400ma @12.5vdc with nothing connected to the outputs.

Sorry but the time I had for testing is over for at least a month if not more
 
I'll be keeping an eye on the topic from abroad. However, Internet access is very limited where I'm going to be.

Talk to you in some time

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #478 on: October 31, 2011, 06:14:32 AM »
HAVE YOU SEEN THIS? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtI1CPBSm-o&feature=related
USE IT TO DRIVE YOUR PRIMARY?

CHEERS
T

I have a video I did some years back (Jan 3, 2009) of a coil in resonance setup this way. It was a spool of speaker wire.

Link to my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auFYEFBrwls

Anyways, there is a mutual Inductance and Capacitive coupling between his signal generator hot and ground. This YouTube experimenter just can't see the Current because he's using a moving coil Amp meter which is fine for low frequencies but it's not going to show any activity at 300KHz

He would need to use his scope and a shunt resistor to see the AC current at these frequencies.

Luc
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 07:02:57 AM by gotoluc »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #479 on: October 31, 2011, 06:22:13 AM »
@gotoluc

Maybe you should try this driving circuit from Romero at your secondary, it looks promissing...

Generator Coil Speedup Circuit Simulation

In some of the 'acceleration under load' videos Romero showed this attached circuit to be responsible for the speedup effect.
I did a simulation of that replacing Hall sensor with a zener diode.
The result is blinking led with power disipation shown on the right graph and on the left we've got power taken from the rotor...

This can be done in 1:1 transformer too, I think so... ;)

This sim is just an example. You would have to play with parameters (right mouse button on a componetnt to edit) to make it right...

Interesting circuit idea and Sim kEhYo77

Do you think it is realistic?... if so, I was able to tune it to return current ;D  You just have to wait 3 or 4 minutes till it reaches the 44 Watts range.

Link to Re-tuned Generator Circuit Simulation

Let me know what you think

Luc
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 06:45:58 AM by gotoluc »