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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 779651 times)

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #360 on: October 21, 2011, 05:35:31 AM »
is there any beneficial overunity in coil only?

DEAR SHIMONDOODKIN,

THAT IS A VERY GOOD QUESTION!  ;)

A GENERATOR COIL EMPLOYS ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION TO CONVERT MAGNETIC FIELD ENERGY TO ELECTRICAL ENERGY. THE MAGNITUDE OF FLUX OFFERED BY THE MAGNETIC FIELD COULD BE CONSIDERED AS THE INPUT TO THE COIL AND THE EMF AS THE OUTPUT. THE ONLY WAY TO INCREASE THE OUTPUT IN A CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR WHILE IT IS RUNNING IS TO INCREASE THE TIME INTERVAL OR RATE OF FLUX CHANGE SPEED UP THE ROTOR OR TO INCREASE THE MAGNETIC FIELD MAGNITUDE IF ELECTROMAGNETS ARE EMPLOYED IN THE ROTOR.

WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THE ReGenX GENERATOR CREATES ITS OWN FLUX RATE OF CHANGE INCREASE BY CAUSING ROTOR ACCELERATION BUT IT ALSO INCREASES ITS OWN MAGNETIC FIELD ENERGY ABOVE THAT SUPPLIED SUPPLIED BY THE MAGNETS ON THE ROTOR.

IF YOU OBSERVE AT 959 IN THIS VIDEO YOU WILL NOTICE COIL #1's EMF INCREASES WHEN COIL #2 IS ENGAGED BECAUSE COIL #2's DISCHARGING FLUX IS ADDING TO THE FLUX AVAILABLE IN COIL #1 AND VICE VERSA. http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins?feature=mhee#p/u/13/W_wleUlcMK0

THIS IS ALSO OBSERVABLE IN THIS VIDEO WHEN THE ReGenX COILS ARE ENGAGED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYi2OyS5cK4

SO THE FLUX MAGNITUDE INSIDE THE CORE IS GREATER ON-LOAD (OUTPUT) THAN NO-LOAD (INPUT).

From Faraday's law of induction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction

Michael Faraday stated that electromotive force (EMF) produced around a closed path is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux through any surface bounded by that path. In practice, this means that an electric current will be induced in any closed circuit when the magnetic flux through a surface bounded by the conductor changes. This applies whether the field itself changes in strength or the conductor is moved through it.

In mathematical form, Faraday's law states that:
For the case of a coil of wire, composed of N loops with the same area, the equation becomes

EMF = - N (flux change) / rate of time

where

EMF is the electromotive force
ΦB is the magnetic flux.

THANKS FOR THE GOOD QUESTION!  8)

CHEERS
T

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #361 on: October 21, 2011, 08:46:32 AM »
Hi Overunityguide,

I also believe the Delayed Lenz effect has to do with the core.
Thanks for sharing your new tests results

You may also want to look at this Tesla Patent which is 4 years later then the one above.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=uwhBAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

Thanks for sharing

Luc

YOU ARE ALL ON CRACK...! 
IT'S NOT DELAYED LENZ AT ALL IT'S DIVERTED LENZ 8) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu0MDMDChSg  8)
JUST KIDDING A BIT OF BOTH IS REQUIRED ;)

CHEERS
T

Dear Thane, I have to admit that I was to fast by pulling conclusions about that the Delayed Lenz Effect only has to do something with the core material... In fact I think that you are right (again and again, quite annoying!) That it has to be a combination of both... So a properly designed core can help delaying and the Bifilar wound series connected coil can help delaying the counter EMF effect even more. I came to this conclusion yesterday evening when trying only a really thick wire wound coil, which doesn't give me any good delayed effect at all. So based on this experience I had to conclude that the Lenz Delay has to be a combination of both.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Offline Overunityguide

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #362 on: October 21, 2011, 09:09:25 AM »
Test results, 500g of 0.25mm, bifilar-wound, series-connected, laminated-core coil.

This coil/core combination overspeeds the rotor when shorted.


Rotor with no coil/core present.

Hz : 450
mA : 443

Rotor with coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz : 450
mA : 438

Rotor with coil/core persent, short-circuit.

Hz : 455
mA 433

Video here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onvYaT-k7yk


Thanks for reading,

DC.

Hello DeepCut,

Conratulations on your results, do you actually realize what you have accomplished with this experiment?!
(I think you do) But to clarify it a bit more for all other readers of this thread:

What DeepCut has accomplished by now is outstanding. He is showing: 443 mA going to the setup on no load, no coil, no nothing.

And he is showing: 433 mA going to the setup WITH THE BIFILAR COIL in SHORTING mode. And getting extra additional acceleration also!

Until so far I even haven't been able to get this type of results yet. I really hope that your measurements are correct, because if they are and you encounter for all losses, then your setup has the potential to be a self runner! Just like the suggest bike project of Thane himself!

And Furthermore Congrats on Woopy's replication also.

Thanks for sharing your results, and With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Offline woopy

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #363 on: October 21, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »
Hi Thane

Yes you are right, i slowed down the rotor and the threshold  for the pure shortcut of my  bificoil serial connected, is arround 570 rpm.

I mean under this speed the shortcuting produce a braking effect (standard generator behaviour) and the rotor slows down
 and above this speed at around 600 rpm the shortcuting produces the acceleration of the rotor.

Between 570 and 600 rpm almost nothing happens. it seems that the rotor is slightly wobling but perhaps it is some balance effect  ??

Totally amazing. Thank's so much for your tenacity on this fantastic work. And especially for sharing it.

So i do suppose that if we can arrange a setup with perhaps an odd and even repartition of coils and magnets (for example 16 magnets on the drum and lets say 7 coils )
in order to reduce the cogging at minima, we could get something  usable...........really interesting. Hmmm!!

Yep a lot of thinking this next days. :P

@ Deepcut

Bravo also for your test. Yes it is really fantastic and somehow disturbing  :o to feel the effect in our's hands.
I can only encourage everybody to try the replication.

Good luck at all

Laurent

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #364 on: October 21, 2011, 12:56:14 PM »
Thanks OUG, yes i know what it means :)

Nice one Laurent :)

I am testing again today because, as we all know, results can vary from day-to-day.

Results.


Ten minute device warm-up.

Start, 11:15.

Hz   : 445
mA   : 451

End, 11:25.

Hz   : 460
mA   : 415

Test, No coil/core present.

Hz   : 460
mA   : 415

Test, coil/core present, open-circuit.

Hz   : 434
mA   : 420

Test, coil/core present, short-circuit.

Hz   : 464
mA   : 409


Coil details.

Gauge   : 33 SWG (0.250mm)
Weight   : 500g
Length   : 1,145 metres (approx)
L    : 1.4 Henries without core, 16.5 Henries with core.
R   : 405 OHms
Winding : Bifilar, serial-connected.

Core details.

Type   : Lamination
Grade   : E160/M6/35/Grain oriented, 'I'.
Depth   : 0.35mm
Length   : 40mm
Width   : 10mm
Number of pieces used : 20


Best to all,

Gary.






Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #365 on: October 21, 2011, 01:15:47 PM »
My replication should be ready within a day or so, for now: a little teaser of my new setup.
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #366 on: October 21, 2011, 01:17:26 PM »
WOW !!! Keyho, it's a thing of beauty :)

Love the over-arching motor mounts, looks like a UFO ;+}

Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #367 on: October 21, 2011, 01:25:53 PM »
Thanks, laser cutting is quite expensive but it is worth every penny ;)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #368 on: October 21, 2011, 01:26:42 PM »
I've spotted something of concern in my build :(

The weight of the coil asembly, once it is placed on the lower perspex sheet, it depresses it very slightly and causes the RPM of the rotor to change because of the change in stress on the bearing.

I am now rebuilding the device so that this can't happen.

I'll post results.

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #369 on: October 21, 2011, 01:33:23 PM »
Dear Thane, I have to admit that I was to fast by pulling conclusions about that the Delayed Lenz Effect only has to do something with the core material... In fact I think that you are right (again and again, quite annoying!) That it has to be a combination of both... So a properly designed core can help delaying and the Bifilar wound series connected coil can help delaying the counter EMF effect even more. I came to this conclusion yesterday evening when trying only a really thick wire wound coil, which doesn't give me any good delayed effect at all. So based on this experience I had to conclude that the Lenz Delay has to be a combination of both.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

DEAR OVERUNITYGUIDE,

I HATE TO TELL YOU THIS BUT YOU MAY HAVE TO INCLUDE "SKIN EFFECT" IN YOUR ANALYSIS  :P SINCE IT HAS AN EFFECT ON WIRE AND CORE RESISTANCE AS FREQUENCY INCREASES.

CHEERS
T

Skin effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skin effect is the tendency of an alternating electric current (AC) to distribute itself within a conductor with the current density being largest near the surface of the conductor, decreasing at greater depths. In other words, the electric current flows mainly at the "skin" of the conductor, at an average depth called the skin depth. The skin effect causes the effective resistance of the conductor to increase at higher frequencies where the skin depth is smaller, thus reducing the effective cross-section of the conductor. The skin effect is due to opposing eddy currents induced by the changing magnetic field resulting from the alternating current

Skin effect reduction of the self inductance of a conductor. Since the skin effect causes a current at high frequencies to flow mainly at the surface of a conductor, it can be seen that this will reduce the magnetic field inside the wire, that is, beneath the depth at which the bulk of the current flows. It can be shown that this will have a minor effect on the self inductance of the wire itself; see Skilling[8] or Hayt[9] for a mathematical treatment of this phenomenon.

Note that the inductance considered in this context refers to a bare conductor, not the inductance of a coil used as a circuit element. The inductance of a coil is dominated by the mutual inductance between the turns of the coil which increases its inductance according to the square of the number of turns



Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #370 on: October 21, 2011, 01:52:35 PM »
My replication should be ready within a day or so, for now: a little teaser of my new setup.
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.

DEAR kEhYo77,

R. BUCKMINSTER FULLER ONCE SAID, "EVERYONE IS BORN A GENIUS, BUT THE PROCESS OF LIVING DE-GENIUSES THEM."

NICE TO SEE YOUR DESIGN GENIUS HERE 8) ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHERS!

CHEERS
T

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #371 on: October 21, 2011, 02:09:03 PM »
24 magnet poles, 20 generator coils, almost no cogging.

DEAR kEhYo77,

WHAT IS YOUR CORE MATERIAL?
(I HOPE IT IS NOT METGLAS OR FERRITE?)

IF YOUR MAGNETS ARE ALTERNATING N-S-N-S ON THE ROTOR YOU WILL ONLY GET POSITIVE RESULTS (ie increased on-load EMF as mentioned in post # 360) FROM YOUR COILS THAT ARE PLACED ON THE SAME POLE POLARITY IE ALL NORTH POLE MAGNET POSITIONS OR ALL SOUTH POLE.

KEEP ALL THE CORES THERE THOUGH SINCE THEY BALANCE AND REDUCE START-UP COGGING - HOWEVER COGGING DIMINISHES WITH RPM :) ... SO YOU CAN PULL THE NON USED CORES OUT (IF POSSIBLE) TO REDUCE HYSTERISIS LOSSES IN THOSE UNUSED CORES ONCE YOUR SYSTEM IS UP TO SPEED.  :P GOOD LUCK!

CHEERS
T

« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 02:42:49 PM by CRANKYpants »

Offline kEhYo77

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #372 on: October 21, 2011, 02:29:35 PM »
@CRANKYpants

I already achieved acceleration with those ferrite cores and the 4 coils in the picture are all on the same phase (the same pole is facing them simultaniousely in NSNS config) and there are 5 phases like that. The plan is to change the core material later on to see the difference.

Thanks for kind words, Thane.

kEhYo





Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #373 on: October 21, 2011, 02:41:17 PM »
Hi Thane

So i do suppose that if we can arrange a setup with perhaps an odd and even repartition of coils and magnets (for example 16 magnets on the drum and lets say 7 coils ) in order to reduce the cogging at minima, we could get something  usable...........really interesting. Hmmm!!

Good luck at all

Laurent

DEAR LAURENT,

MY SUGGESTION IS THAT PEOPLE ELIMINATE THE EXTERNAL PRIME MOVER AND USE THE GENERATOR COILS AS MOTOR COILS TO GET THE SYSTEM UP TO SPEED AND THEN CONVERT THE MOTOR COILS OVER GENERATOR COILS INDIVIDUALLY ONE BY ONE.

THIS IS A GOOD PLACE FOR MOTOR MAKERS TO START: http://www.simplemotor.com/hemotor.htm

THIS WAY THERE IS NO COGGING TORQUE WHICH NEEDS TO BE BALANCED.

CHEERS
T

Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #374 on: October 21, 2011, 02:50:19 PM »
@CRANKYpants

I already achieved acceleration with those ferrite cores and the 4 coils in the picture are all on the same phase (the same pole is facing them simultaniousely in NSNS config) and there are 5 phases like that. The plan is to change the core material later on to see the difference.

Thanks for kind words, Thane.

kEhYo

DEAR kEhYo,

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT - YOUR MACHINE IS A THING OF BEAUTY!
HERE'S TO HOPING IT IS MORE THAN JUST A PRETTY FACE...  ;)

I HOPE YOU KEPT YOUR CUTTING TEMPLATES, PEOPLE MAY WANT TO BUY SOME "KITS" FROM YOU LATER ON.

CHEERS
T