Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 894695
  • *Total Topics: 15737
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 12
  • *Total: 15

Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 688514 times)

Offline Overunityguide

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2011, 09:06:42 AM »
75watts to run the generator

the led's probably consume 2 watts...

ok so its negative lenz effect, so it now consumes 72 watts or so.... but is the effect the same when you put a larger load on it? what happens if you put something that requires say 80watts? is it going to be 70watts in and 80watts out?

Ok, there we go again... Please read the previous posts! I have mentioned it for about twenty times by now... it is showing only proof of principle...

In one of my previous posts I also describe that the motor which I am using right now is a bit overkill. Actually my motor is rated at maximum 370 Watts. (so much too powerfull for this setup) And will consume much power only to run idle.

So if you have read all previous posts, Please proceed and see my next video about this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGstOJ4NDQQ
In which I describe the differences between shorting and loading the generator coil.

With Kind Regards, Overunityguide

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2011, 09:06:42 AM »

Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2011, 09:53:09 AM »
One has to remember that when full setup of coils would be implemented the drag will be much less and power required
to drive the rotor as well. All that he has to do is to place ODD number of those HV coils around the EVEN number of magnets rotor...

You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

The whole idea of obtaining OU with similar setups will only fly if the additional lossed caused by the generator coils will be less than the load they deliver.

In the setup of Overunityguide the coil seems to have a solid core. Replacing this by e.g. isolated rods with a small diameter will help a lot in getting the eddy currents reduced.
But, since in this example a coil with many windings is used, there will always be rather large ohmic losses in the generator coil as well. In this demo : R =384.5 Ohm !
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 10:24:58 AM by teslaalset »

Offline Poit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 295
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2011, 09:54:59 AM »
You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

Makes sense :)

@Overunityguide sorry mate, i read your posts. Keep up the good work

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2011, 09:54:59 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Overunityguide

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2011, 10:08:08 AM »
You're missing the point I was trying to make here:
No coils present : power consumption 66Watts
One coil present, no load: power consumption 75 Watt.
So, the presents of each coil will add 9 Watts of extra losses without delivering extra output.
If you then load one coil with e.g. a LED lamp, like in this experiment, there is a approx. 2 Watt reduction of the 9 Watts.
So, overall, each coil, while delivering output, still has a 7 Watt extra loss.
Adding N extra coils will add 7 x N Watt extra loss.

@teslaalset,

(Please don't take it personal...)

I think that you still haven't read all previous posts. I am saying this because, also in one of my other previous posts, I am telling everyone that my generator setup for now is one of the most Inefficient and that there can be a lot improved in this setup.

First, you can think of replacing my iron bolt core with ferrites. Secondly designing a more like Thane C Heins Mechenical Generator Coil Dual Rotor setup and so on.

Kind Regards, Overunityguide
Please see my new Video about the Difference Between Shorting and Loading:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGstOJ4NDQQ

Offline kEhYo77

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2011, 10:22:25 AM »
@teslaalset

I know what You are getting at with those calculation but adding a full set of coils will reduce total amount of drag significantly.
And then you can not do simple mutliplication of the friction/drag like that for all the coils because balancing magnetic forces does the trick (Muller).
On a side note here, I think that You know that this setup can be converted to RotoVerter resonant motor and then the same 3000 RPM
can be achieved using only few Watts using tuned caps.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2011, 10:22:25 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2011, 11:57:25 AM »
(Please don't take it personal...)

No, I don't. It's good to have this discussion.
Always difficult to express things, without causing wrong emotions ;)
I may leave the wrong impression myself, but I mean to dig out the issues here as an open discussion, in a constructive way.

I think that you still haven't read all previous posts. I am saying this because, also in one of my other previous posts, I am telling everyone that my generator setup for now is one of the most Inefficient and that there can be a lot improved in this setup.


Point taken.

First, you can think of replacing my iron bolt core with ferrites. Secondly designing a more like Thane C Heins Mechenical Generator Coil Dual Rotor setup and so on.

In parallel to your response, I added similar suggestions in my previous post.
To be honest, I am doing a lot of Ansys Maxwell simulations on this topic in the background to find most efficient solutions for this.
Indeed, one of the effeciency improvements is better core material.
The other is to get red of the coil resistance. We can discuss how....

The essence is that current lag is maximized.
The fundamental formula in setups like this is explained very nicely in this MIT video, starting from around time = 40:03:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpO6t00bPb8 (great teacher!)

Leaving out any capacity effects of winding(s) it boils down to :

Tangens(phi) = (omega x inductance) / Resistance 
(where phi is the delay )

This formula defines the current delay to the induced flux.
To maximize the delay:
- Increase omega (= 2 x pi x freq)
- Increase inductance
- Decrease resistance

Increase of omega is simple. Overunityguide showed the clear effects in his demos

Increasing inductance is not so simple. If magnets approach coil cores, the cores in general tend to saturate, causing a drop in inductance.
There are several ways to avoid saturation of core materials at TDC, e.g. to put bias magnets at the  other end of the cores of the coils. But.... this will saturate the cores when rotor magnets are not at TDC, leaving some other disadvantages.

Decrease of resistance is also complicated: using thicker wire is one solution, reducing windings another.
Thane Heins is using HV coils with many windings. This is not the only possible solution. It all depends on the formula above.
The MIT demo shows that even a solid ring has prominent current lag.

And then there is the possibility to play with capacity.
This allows for a whole arrangement of extra options.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:26:16 PM by teslaalset »

Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2011, 12:36:01 PM »
I know what You are getting at with those calculation but adding a full set of coils will reduce total amount of drag significantly.


Only after these coils have introduced much greater drag themselves if they have large losses, which occur in this demo. I even doubt coils can be made that effecient they will leave a surplus of torque when loaded.

And then you can not do simple mutliplication of the friction/drag like that for all the coils because balancing magnetic forces does the trick (Muller).
On a side note here, I think that You know that this setup can be converted to RotoVerter resonant motor and then the same 3000 RPM
can be achieved using only few Watts using tuned caps.

See my comments in my previous reply.
Adding capacitors to obtain resonance, will introduce zero current lag (exactly zero!!).
This is a complete different ball game.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:41:17 PM by teslaalset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2011, 12:36:01 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7397
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2011, 01:43:27 PM »
Very much on topic
ToranaRod Feels He has Seen OU [A strange Runaway ,Burn stuff up "EFFECT"] ,And wants all to know
Here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-51.html#post155261

Chet

Offline kEhYo77

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »
Quote
Adding capacitors to obtain resonance...
I ment adding capacitors to turn motor/prime mover  windings to LC tank for resonant driving for the rotor.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2011, 03:02:47 PM »
I ment adding capacitors to turn motor/prime mover  windings to LC tank for resonant driving for the rotor.

Ah, ok, I was mixing this up.

Motor issues maybe a bit offtopic here, but from what I understand of motors, the mechanical load causes a current phase lag that is changing when the mechanical load is changing.
This will result in 'lower impedance load' as seen by the power source.

This means a compensation capacitor value is dependant on the mechanical load.
Also in the case of a motor, the current lag will be compensated to zero to the flux phase when C is tuned to LC resonance.
From what I understand, zero current lag to the flux will end up in zero torque, so useless.

Maybe you have better references than I do, but I haven't seen any spectacular results with rotovertors for the last 5 years.

Offline futuristic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • HTML Color Codes
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2011, 03:17:26 PM »
I even doubt coils can be made that effecient they will leave a surplus of torque when loaded.
Toranarod on 08-03-2011 got more RPM with shorted coil than without the coil at all:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-35.html#post149807

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2011, 03:17:26 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline kEhYo77

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2011, 03:32:21 PM »
This means a compensation capacitor value is dependant on the mechanical load.

Yes, it is, so the RV capacitor should be selected after finding optimum speed for the effect to manifest and then at this speed we short ALL
the generator coils or put them on a specific, constant value load and then, under this condition we try to select the right compensation capacitor for the RV motor.
This setup should be much more efficient then.

Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2011, 03:33:39 PM »
Toranarod on 08-03-2011 got more RPM with shorted coil than without the coil at all:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-35.html#post149807

If that is true and it can be replicated he is on the right track.

I wasn't aware.
Thanks for the link.
I will study this.

Offline futuristic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • HTML Color Codes
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2011, 06:36:25 PM »
I'll try to replicate it too. I already have DC motor and 10mm x 10mm neo magnets. For core I'll use mumetal from hard drives.

Offline teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2011, 08:00:13 PM »
If that is true and it can be replicated he is on the right track.

Ok, I had a look at Toranarod's data.
Yes, indeed he seems to have higher RPM with a generator coil, compared to the situation without generator coil.
However there is also a motor coil present.
Unfortunately he did not monitor (or post) the data on the motor coil.
The used power of the motor coil is also relevant for solid evaluation.
So, incomplete data unfortunately. Still no proof of concept.

For some reason I can't post messages on EF although I have a valid account.
Can somebody post a question to Toranarod to provide also the input power of the motor coil, to complete his table?


 

OneLink