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Author Topic: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!  (Read 11531 times)

Offline Shadesz

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Muller/Romero- it has potential, and I think I know how it worked!

And the kicker is, it uses a magnetic flux capacitor! See this thread page now, I will type it out for over here as I have time. If this theory is correct, this is HUGE guys!

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-41.html

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Shadesz

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2011, 07:15:30 PM »
 Cut and paste:

Quote
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
Again, this sounds like an inductance induced magnetic delay in the coil core. It would not make sense to do this with an air core because the RPM would need to be higher creating the need for higher input. Why does iron work so much better? That's what we need to be thinking about if we are to really figure out the inner workings of the effect we see. We should be concentrating on creating the effect at lower RPM's. Romero said that this effect worked best using Mu metal. What does that tell us?
(end zooty quote)

I just about jumped out of my chair when I read this! Thanks Zooty! As I am just learning the field, some other stuff is fresh on my mind. The way this was worded, and the questions you asked, helped me connect the two principles! Good work!

I think I know the start of how you guys are overcoming lenz and getting acceleration under load. You may have to clean up the idea, but it might get you started...

Magnetic fields, like electricity, are attracted to the path of least resistance. Copper has no effect on a stagnant magnet, but when moving (when inducing a current in the copper) it resists due to lenz law.

So now think of it, as the magnet approaches it begins to charge the copper which starts to kick back. Rod has seen effective results by draining the copper as fast as possible using a dc/dc converter. Perhaps this is because with less charge, means less lenz effect, so it doesn't push back as much (as if the copper was still stagnant).

Now about the type of core. Remember, magnetic fields want to take the easy rout. Copper has a magnetic permeability almost like air. I'm guessing that copper under induced current has an even lower permeability. So, the magnetic field is now having a hard time following its normal path past the magnet.

Now at about this instant it finds the iron core. Iron has a relative permeability of 4,000 μ/μ0 (see Electrical Steel). This is roughly 4,000 times more attractive to the field than air and stagnant copper. The field jumps forward to take a path through the core, this accelerates the rotor. Not only that, but while the field chooses the core over the coil, lenz isn't there!

Then at some point the magnetic field saturates the core. In which case the field returns to the copper and air, and lenz shows his ugly face. BUT this time, if your magnet is just over TDC, lenz is helping you by pushing the magnet as it leaves the coil!

It clicked as I was reading, and when I read the last line Zooty posted I couldn't constrain myself! "Romero said that this effect worked best using Mu metal. What does that tell us?" Mu metal has the highest relative permeability of 50,000 μ/μ0! This would mean the field is even more attracted to it than the iron core.

Why doesn't ferrite work? It's magnetic permeability is 16 to 640 μ/μ0. While better than air and copper, it still isn't enough to get the field to jump the gap.

With my current limited knowledge, a way to test this, and to get this effect at lower speeds, would be to use mu metal and the biggest core possible. (didn't rod start noticing these results when he made the core twice the size of the magnets?) Another thing to try would be to add more iron or mu metal to the back of the core behind the coil. This, in theory, would increase the magnetic capacity of the core and thus allow the magnetic jump to last longer. With a longer lasting magnetic jump you need less time (lower RPM) for the magnet to hit TDC before lenz kicks in.

Man I hope this gets you guys rolling. It could be a breakthrough. It has me rolling (on the floor anyway)

Do you realize that if this theory is correct, once a fully designed and dialed in generator is up to speed, it should need NO input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 08:43:41 PM »
 Looks like Toranarod is really making some good progress over there.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2011, 08:43:41 PM »
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Offline futuristic

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2011, 11:55:34 PM »
This video showing the same effect went by kind of unnoticed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9k-iMjjsE

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 02:28:16 AM »
This video showing the same effect went by kind of unnoticed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs9k-iMjjsE

By putting his ammeter on 10 amps directly across the output he is essentially shorting the coil.  From what I've picked up lately here a continuously shorted coil = less Lenz drag but of course not much in usable output.  If it seemed unnotice I think it's because a lot of people here are already aware of it. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 02:28:16 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline futuristic

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 02:10:21 PM »
In conventional theory is like this.

If you use regular coil, not two in bucking mode:

magnet passing by coil with open leads -> no current in coil -> no lenz
magnet passing by coil connected to load with high resistance -> small current in coil -> small lenz
magnet passing by coil connected to load with small resistance -> big current in coil -> big lenz
magnet passing by coil with shorted leads -> max current in coil -> max lenz

So seeing experiment where shortening coil actually reverses lenz and causes speed up of rotor in significant.

Offline ramset

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 02:21:54 PM »
Shadesz
Qoute:
From Here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-42.html

So now think of it, as the magnet approaches it begins to charge the copper which starts to kick back. Rod has seen effective results by draining the copper as fast as possible using a dc/dc converter. Perhaps this is because with less charge, means less lenz effect, so it doesn't push back as much (as if the copper was still stagnant).

Now about the type of core. Remember, magnetic fields want to take the easy rout. Copper has a magnetic permeability almost like air. I'm guessing that copper under induced current has an even lower permeability. So, the magnetic field is now having a hard time following its normal path past the magnet.

Now at about this instant it finds the iron core. Iron has a relative permeability of 4,000 μ/μ0 (see Electrical Steel). This is roughly 4,000 times more attractive to the field than air and stagnant copper. The field jumps forward to take a path through the core, this accelerates the rotor. Not only that, but while the field chooses the core over the coil, lenz isn't there!

Then at some point the magnetic field saturates the core. In which case the field returns to the copper and air, and lenz shows his ugly face. BUT this time, if your magnet is just over TDC, lenz is helping you by pushing the magnet as it leaves the coil!

--------------------------------------
SEE
This is Cool,You've used your brain to Trick the evil Lentz!!

And Even I can understand your above text

Create an environment that is Uncomfortable or unnatural ,Then Offer up an escape/opportunity  that is taken gladly ,

But everybody works towards a new goal ,even Mr. Lenz [makes him a nice guy]
OU....................

Please continue to share here
Thank You
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 02:21:54 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline futuristic

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Re: Muller/Romero- it has potentail, and I think I know how it worked!
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 02:24:32 PM »
By putting his ammeter on 10 amps directly across the output he is essentially shorting the coil.  From what I've picked up lately here a continuously shorted coil = less Lenz drag but of course not much in usable output.  If it seemed unnotice I think it's because a lot of people here are already aware of it.

I think you were hearing a lot is this configuration in which two coils are shorted like this Garry Stanley setup:
http://www.energeticforum.com/attachments/renewable-energy/6271d1281820340-garry-stanley-pulse-motor-garrycoils1.jpg

Used in motor mode:
No lenz is present during the time that coil is not energized so its very efficient motor.

Used for pickup coil:
You will get normal lenz drag if you connect + and - leads to the rectifier and capacitor or battery.

 

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