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Author Topic: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction  (Read 17430 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« on: August 11, 2011, 08:06:26 PM »
Hi,

I have uploaded a short experiment with magnets. These magnets, total of 6 bar neo magnets stacked as three by three. and slightly aligned with an offset to make a "notch" and "peak". I have some ideas about this, but too time consuming to explain at the moment. I will make a brief drawing to show an alternative to my zipper motor idea describes in another thread I have.

Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obV4bUd4JmI

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Offline Qwert

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 08:58:55 PM »
I think the same experiment is described on this page: http://www.autoelektryczne.cba.pl/
Unfortunately it's in polish, when I find some idle time i'll translate it, it's pretty short description. Scroll down to a picture colored blue, red and purple, over it is an enter:"Wpis:   11 - 11 - 2010r.", meaning just this: "Enter:   11 - 11 - 2010." and the title: "Nastêpne nowe odkrycie innego zjawiska fizycznego z magnesami:" meaning: "Another new discovery of a different physical phenomenon with magnets".

Offline Qwert

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 09:32:56 PM »
This could be of an interrest for the magnet - hungry experimenters: "Design, construction & operating principles of electromagnets for attracting copper, aluminum & other non-ferrous metals" by Leonard R. Crow.
https://rapidshare.com/files/583582131/NON-FERROUS_METALS2.pdf

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 09:32:56 PM »
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Offline penno64

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 10:13:40 PM »
Hi,

Madsatbg and I think a few others have demonstrated the same -

http://www.youtube.com/user/madsatbg#p/u/11/mmdSSMoUT4g

Penno

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 02:32:08 PM »
I have made an animation of what I can try out. If you have any questions, please ask.

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 02:32:08 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 05:21:22 PM »
I think this is another variation on what I call the Nikolayev Trailer Hitch. This phenomenon was first described, as far as I can tell, by Stefan Marinov's mentor Nikolayev, and appears in drawings in Nikolayev's Russian book. I don't think this book has been translated from Russian, but it should be, as it contains many little tidbits like this.

This effect can also be produced by a stack of two magnets and two spacers. The two face-polarized slabs are glued together in repulsion with one spacer in between and the other on the end. So you have NmagnetS-spacer-SmagnetN-spacer. Make two stacks like this and experiment.

I've posted a video of the simplest setup that demonstrates the effects, using a ring magnet, a rod magnet, and a guide tube. The trailer hitch non-contact push-pull, while still allowing rotation, is what I believe to be the most significant use of this phenomenon (repultraction, tm TKLabs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUihboGkJnE

EDIT: I see penno64 and madsatbg have also made the connection to Nikolayev's work. Good on you!!

EDIT 2: I've uploaded a higher resolution version and replaced the old version of the video. The link above should be good.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 07:18:48 PM by TinselKoala »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 06:19:24 PM »
The Siberian Kolya (or Coilu or Coliu in some sources) is the motor tested by Jeffrey Kooistra when he was at Infinite Energy Magazine while Gene Mallove was still with us. Kooistra called it the "Warlock's Wheel" and it is by far the most interesting magnet motor device that I personally have ever seen. It appears to violate Newton's laws of motion in that the rotating "stator" ring and the central rotating magnet armature, when energized, both rotate in the SAME direction, not opposite as Newton would require.
However, other than the association with Nikolayev, that device doesn't really have anything to do with the devices discussed in this thread. They operate on different principles. I have made an analog of the Siberian Coliu using the principles of repultraction that operates as a pulse motor of the third kind and also exhibits anomalous behaviour re Newton. However, I am using a fixed stator coil instead of a rotatable ring, so my motor (the Marinov Slab motor) isn't designed specifically to demonstrate this anomaly, like the Warlock's Wheel is.

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 06:19:24 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 04:38:58 PM »
The Siberian Kolya (or Coilu or Coliu in some sources) is the motor tested by Jeffrey Kooistra when he was at Infinite Energy Magazine while Gene Mallove was still with us. Kooistra called it the "Warlock's Wheel" and it is by far the most interesting magnet motor device that I personally have ever seen. It appears to violate Newton's laws of motion in that the rotating "stator" ring and the central rotating magnet armature, when energized, both rotate in the SAME direction, not opposite as Newton would require.
However, other than the association with Nikolayev, that device doesn't really have anything to do with the devices discussed in this thread. They operate on different principles. I have made an analog of the Siberian Coliu using the principles of repultraction that operates as a pulse motor of the third kind and also exhibits anomalous behaviour re Newton. However, I am using a fixed stator coil instead of a rotatable ring, so my motor (the Marinov Slab motor) isn't designed specifically to demonstrate this anomaly, like the Warlock's Wheel is.
Not much to find about Warlock's Wheel. Has it anything to do with the design in the animation above?

Vidar

Offline SPANG

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 08:43:43 AM »
Vidar,
       Get ready for some 'constructive critisism'.
You have about 6 'like' facing magnets, very close together, going 'upward', untill they start to repel each other ------- correct?  The rest of the magnets, are 'fanned' out.
Unless, EVERY ONE of those close magnets, REPEL each other ----- AT THE SAME TIME ----- having the 'extra
magnets, would be a waste of time.  Only one pair of magnets repel each other at ANY ONE TIME!

SPANG.                           (BILL.)

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 08:43:43 AM »
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Offline SPANG

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 10:10:49 AM »
I should have added:  The other 5? magnets,    (and their arms etc..,) are unneccessary 'baggage'


SPANG.                   (BILL.)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 11:14:14 PM »
Vidar,
       Get ready for some 'constructive critisism'.
You have about 6 'like' facing magnets, very close together, going 'upward', untill they start to repel each other ------- correct?  The rest of the magnets, are 'fanned' out.
Unless, EVERY ONE of those close magnets, REPEL each other ----- AT THE SAME TIME ----- having the 'extra
magnets, would be a waste of time.  Only one pair of magnets repel each other at ANY ONE TIME!

SPANG.                           (BILL.)
Thanks for the critisism. Good to know that some actually look into the design and come up with some points, cons and pros about it.

The closed magnets does not repel eachother towards left and right. They are aligned in the same way as in the first video in this thread (My practical experiment with these magnets).

The idea with the 5-6 "closed" magnet pairs moving upwards is to simulate one solid magnet. I do this in order to prevent the magnetic path on each of those magnets to be spread all over the place, but instead be aligned angular to the magnets direction. This will weaken/take away the force that is required to escape the shield. Otherwise, separate magnets will attract to the shield, and prevented to escape from it, because the magnetic flux also point in direction towards the shield. The "pseudo solid" magnets flux lines does not. Instead the magnets separates into a "fan" away from the shield.

I am sure you have discovered that in the center of a very long magnet, there is very weak magnetic attraction and repulsion. This is because the magnetic flux is more uniform and straight within a given space around that center. At the ends of that magnet, the flux lines are very curved and there is big difference in flux density from one point to another (Which is the reason why there is greater attraction and repulsion at the tip of a magnet bar).

The magnetic shield is covering half the "motor". This shield is guiding the magnetic flux directly from N to S via the hub. This guide will therfor make the approaching magnets "blind" to eachother, and therefor not repel eachother. Then they mesh together into a "pseudo solid" magnet, which in turn will let each magnet escape the shield effordless, and gets ready for a new repulsion.

There will allways be "side by side" repulsion between the magnets all the way around, but that force is allways compensated at the "same point" on the opposite side. This repulsion is not what is suppose to run the motor. Only the repulsion is between the magnet tips in the moment the magnets spread out in a "fan". There will initially be great repulsion, but weakens as the magnets gets farther apart. So there is not only ONE magnet which repels at ONE time. It happens gradually. At least what I think, and has seen in the simulations.

I don't say it will work. I have just an idea. When I get some more space to do my hobby, I will make some prototypes - initially to learn more about magnetism, - and learn how naive I am when it comes to magnetism ;D

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Re: Magnetic repulsion converts into attraction
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 11:14:14 PM »
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