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Author Topic: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules  (Read 61725 times)

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2011, 05:30:12 PM »
After some attempts using different parameters I guess I found the right for my setup, I made my first 1 litter batch. The taste is like many people describe it.
I tested first on some germinated beans on cotton (no soil), for two days and they didn't die, in fact look like they love this water.
After that I ask my brother who has an old and very tired boxer dog (13 or 14 Y.O.) to allow me to test it on his dog, he took the risk not very convinced at first. I gave 2oz at night and my brother gave him 2oz more in the morning. He (my brother) reported me the next day his dog was playing like a kid with a soft ball and started to bark again like years before. Now it's more alert and awake almost all day!!!

My setup parameters are listed below, and the following information is intended for educational purposes, it is not intended for commercial or business use, and no warranty is offered on the accuracy of this information.

These are the parameters I used:
1 litter of distilled water (0 to 1 PPM)
2.0 grams of NaCl 99.0% pure (will produce a 0.2% concentration)
2 platinized titanium electrodes (3”x2” grid type)
7/8” gap between electrodes
1.0 to 1.1 Amp at 16V DC (just enough to produce visible bubbles)
2.5 Hrs of electrolysis and continuous stirring from the bottom
Approx 32 to 33 °F (beaker immersed in water and ice inside a cooler until reach the lowest temp before start the process).
Initial PPM: 1490, final PPM 1415 (i don't fully understand why)

An important missing parameter is the relation current/area, this due it is hard to determine the real effective area of the electrodes.

It is important that if someone try to replicate it never use regular salt table, the iodine will combine with hydrogen to form Hydroiodic acid that is corrosive and harmful if swallowed, inhaled or in contact with skin, very destructive of mucous membranes and may affect functioning of thyroid.

The integrity of the platinum coating it is critical and the electrolysis must be done only in the coated area. Don't use the electrodes if there are scratches or some type of damage on the coating that shows the base metal.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2011, 05:30:12 PM »

Offline nvisser

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2011, 06:05:54 PM »
Charlie
It sounds very promising!!
I also want my old Chow to run around again. He lives on pain pills.
When are you going to test it on your wife? 
 ;D ;D ;D

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2011, 06:40:49 PM »
Charlie
It sounds very promising!!
I also want my old Chow to run around again. He lives on pain pills.
When are you going to test it on your wife? 
 ;D ;D ;D

On my wife?...mmmmm... not sure...
But my mother in law wants to try it for his chronic leg pain.  ::)
Guess who is the lucky guy. ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2011, 06:40:49 PM »
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Online citfta

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2011, 08:00:10 PM »
Great job Charly.  I guess I better get busy and find some platenized electrodes and some pure NaCl.  Thanks for your efforts and being willing to share. 

Carrool

Offline nvisser

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2011, 08:47:52 PM »
Of coarse!! Mother in law!!
Do eeeeeeeeet!!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2011, 08:47:52 PM »
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Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2011, 03:40:22 PM »
Now I understand what happened on the PPM readings, I took the readings at different temperature, enough to have wrong data.

I made another batch and at 33°F before start the electrolysis the solution was 1140PPM after 2.5HRS and same temperature was 1330PPM.
This is an increase of 190PPM. This make sense to me; new ions are created and conductivity increase.

Perhaps this could be used at home to test the solution stability after days, weeks or months. If ions re-join after determined time the conductivity will reduce so PPMs will reduce too.
Definitely this is not finished yet.

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2011, 04:07:35 PM »
Day after day I noticed the taste is changing (I'm not dinking it yet), the first day it taste like a little strong pool water and fresh, but after days the taste is not the same, is more like bitter but not too much.
The TDS meter shows also a decrease in PPM. So, looks like it is reversing or degrading to something else. Not sure really.

Something similar happens when we produce ionic silver, after time molecules/ions join to each others until precipitate to the bottom, and the TDS shows a lower reading after hours and days latter.

I've thinking about it, what if after the ions creation time, I start to reduce the current (and volts by consequence) in a relative long process until reach almost cero amps?.
This only to avoid an abrupt current interruption, and let the molecules enough time to stabilize slowly.

Carroll (and everyone), perhaps you can suggest me a circuit to control the current from let's say 1 to 0 amps. At first a PWM came to my mind but it's output is allways the same current but pulsed at determined length to get an averaged current. My idea is to decrease the current in a smooth way.

Is there any other different way to do it?

All ideas (and crazy ideas) are welcome.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2011, 04:07:35 PM »
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Online citfta

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2011, 06:53:19 PM »
Hi Charly,

Does the conductivity of the solution stay the same throughout the process?  If adjusting the voltage to control the current is not a problem I am sure we can come up with an automated way to do that.  I am in the middle of adding a bathroom to our basement so let me think about it some and get back to you.  If anyone else has any ideas feel free to jump and help out.

On another thought do you think what you have is a solution of the redox molecules we want and they just aren't stable.  I tried making something similar by bubbling HHO gas through distilled water.  It also changed after a few days so I just dumped it and made fresh every couple of days.  Do you think this is an option for what you are making?  Or do you think being unstable might be detrimental to our health in some way?

Carroll

PS Just a quick idea.  If you connect a large capacitor across the output of the PWM then it will average the pulses into a lower voltage and current.  Since the load stays the same as the pulses get shorter the voltage on the cap will gradually get lower.  We just need a way to automatically change the pulses.

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2011, 07:06:41 PM »
Hi Carroll,
The conductivity is not the same all the time, when the process starts the conductivity starts to increase so current too (i.e. from 1.0 to 1.2 amp) until ion production gradually decrease and conductivity stays constant. But i guess this small increase in conductivity should not be a problem, we could consider it constant for practical purposes.

About the redox molecules I think they are what they should be, not sure about concentration or the % of each molecule or if there are all the 16 molecules claimed in the patent.
But my brother's pal (his dog) is still alive and alert during almost all day and night, so that is my only proof that is working (taking the same water from the same bottle after 2 weeks).

I have not tried the distilled water bubbled with HHO, but there should be good for our health, but use two or three bubblers before the distilled water to avoid contamination from your cell.
Water is oxidized at the anode and the reaction is: 2H2O  -->  O2 + 4H+ + 4e-
Water is reduced at the cathode and the reaction is: 4H2O + 4e-  -->  2H2 + 4OH-
the final products of water electrolysis are a small part of the asea water.

Not sure if will be detrimental to our health, but there is a possibility.
I'm a mechanical engineer and not an expert on chemical reactions, so involvement from people with better undersanding on chemistry would be really helpful.

And Carroll you are right a big capacitor will fix the PWM waves to make them almost flat, and much better if automatically change the pulses.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2011, 07:06:41 PM »
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Online citfta

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2011, 02:48:25 AM »
Charly,

I forgot to mention if you decide to use a capacitor and a PWM you need to put a diode between the output of the PWM and the capacitor.  Otherwise when the  PWM switches to the off side the capacitor may try to discharge back into the PWM.  Just connect a 1 to 3 amp diode with the anode end to the PWM and the cathode end to the cap.  This should charge the cap with the pulses from the PWM and not let the PWM discharge the cap between pulses.  Just ask if you need any more info about how to do this.

Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2011, 02:48:25 AM »
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Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2011, 04:44:39 PM »
Hi Broli, those modules are an affordable and good option due its flexibility to play with parameters, thanks.
Thanks Carroll I'll have your advices in mind; but I'm still thinking what's going on with this stuff, perhaps that is the "normal behavior" of the saline water. :-\
Until now I developed "my own procedure" just from the documentation of 7 or 8 patents and some facts claimed on the asea site and doing some extrapolation on the parameters (concentration, mass, volts, amps, and time).
I will go back one step, I'll buy a couple of fresh original bottles and make a comparison (PPM, Ph, taste etc), I'll post some news later when done.
Thanks again for your help.

Offline jrspath

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2011, 09:09:25 PM »
For some interesting Information go to

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2011, 04:28:03 PM »
Thanks for the link jrspath.
 
I got 4 bottles from ebay for $120 shipping included, here two readings made:
Asea at 77°F (room temp): 2180 ppm, PH 7.5
 
My solution at same temp at 0.26%: 2185 ppm, PH 8.7
I used other parameters to make my own water this time similar in taste (asea has a really soft taste, more like saline).

I think the real problem is the ph.
 
Here is how I prepared my last batch:
1Lt tridestilled water: 0PPM, PH7.0
2.6gr NaCl
Mixed at room temp: 2160 PPM, PH 4.3 (PH went down)
Gap between electrodes: 3/8
Electrolized for 8 minutes at 16V dc, 3 Amps
Final solution: 2185 PPM, PH 8.7
 
I started the process and I check the solution every 2 minutes and at the first 2 minutes the PH was 8.1 (too high).
 
I don't remember the patent number where I did read the stability of the solution was affected for the PH and at 74 - 7.5 the solution could be stable for long time.
 
I opened one asea bottle 1 week ago and the same day I made my last batch. The same day the taste was almost identical, Now 1 week later the asea solution is the same taste, same ph and ppm, but my batch is changing in taste slowly as days run but keep same ppm and ph as the first day.
 
Any idea how to solve this little PH problem?, How to control the PH while electrolysis is running?.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2011, 01:52:13 AM »
Thanks for the link jrspath.
 
I got 4 bottles from ebay for $120 shipping included, here two readings made:
Asea at 77°F (room temp): 2180 ppm, PH 7.5
 
My solution at same temp at 0.26%: 2185 ppm, PH 8.7
I used other parameters to make my own water this time similar in taste (asea has a really soft taste, more like saline).

I think the real problem is the ph.
 
Here is how I prepared my last batch:
1Lt tridestilled water: 0PPM, PH7.0
2.6gr NaCl
Mixed at room temp: 2160 PPM, PH 4.3 (PH went down)
Gap between electrodes: 3/8
Electrolized for 8 minutes at 16V dc, 3 Amps
Final solution: 2185 PPM, PH 8.7
 
I started the process and I check the solution every 2 minutes and at the first 2 minutes the PH was 8.1 (too high).
 
I don't remember the patent number where I did read the stability of the solution was affected for the PH and at 74 - 7.5 the solution could be stable for long time.
 
I opened one asea bottle 1 week ago and the same day I made my last batch. The same day the taste was almost identical, Now 1 week later the asea solution is the same taste, same ph and ppm, but my batch is changing in taste slowly as days run but keep same ppm and ph as the first day.
 
Any idea how to solve this little PH problem?, How to control the PH while electrolysis is running?.

Adding a part of an effervescent multi-vitamin tablet to the water is an easy and inexpensive way to lower the pH value, according to Answers.com.  One tablet is sufficient for two gallons of water.  Instead of tablets, there is a powder form available also. Is there anything in this effervescent multi-vitamin tablet which could make the water unsafe for drinking when combined with the electrolysis process?  I don't know.

REDOXON INMUNE FUERTE TABS (EFFERVESCENT MULTIVITAMIN)

Effervescence-wiki

Keep us updated and thanks for your time and efforts.  How is the dog?  Hope he is still doing fine.

Thanks,

Gravock

 

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