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Author Topic: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules  (Read 61564 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 04:02:24 AM »
Good questions Vissie.

The pool chlorinator uses a fairly strong
solution of saltwater to produce Chlorine
at the Anode of the electrolyzer.  This
then mixes with the Sodium Hydroxide
which is produced at the Cathode to make
Sodium Hypochlorite (commonly known as
bleach) which is a powerful oxidizer and
disinfectant.

With a slight modification the device could
indeed be used to make "structured water"
since the electrodes are of the proper material.

What we need to discover now is the concentration
of Sodium Chloride (or Potassium Chloride) and/or
other salts in the solution to be electrolyzed and
the Voltage/Current density which produces the
desired product.

Too strong a solution will produce the wrong chemicals
(hypochlorites, chlorates and perchlorates) in too high
a concentration.

I agree with SeaMonkey, with slight modifications the pool chlorinator with the proper electrodes could be used to produce "structured water".  Vissie, the pool chlorinator is a good find and is relatively inexpensive.  Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Below is a patent link which covers the MDI-P substance, which is the electrolyzed saline solution with the stabilized redox molecules.  This patent gives a very good idea for the saline concentration to be used, along with a good idea of the voltage, current, and time requirements.  There's also a lot of experimental data which can be found in this patent.

Thanks

GB

References:

Patent link, http://static.patsnap.com/patent/download/pdf/US5674537

Publication on Saltwater Chlorinator, http://www.poolsuppliessuperstore.com/pdfs/6176.pdf

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 04:02:24 AM »

Offline broli

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2011, 04:51:43 AM »
Call me ignorant, I've seen this structured water thing at EF but chose not to be part of it as I saw a shit storm coming. I'm glad I avoided it.

However it's definitely something that begged the "why can't people make this themselves" question. Especially funny on a forum where people are mostly doing open source free energy research.

This actually reminds me of the whole home made colloidal silver debacle. I recently discovered that most of the colloidal silver products, also the home made ones are very lacking. Most of them produce ionic silver (which in some cases is more effective than metallic silver) which when ingested turns almost instantly in silverchloride in the stomach. The best way to create REAL metallic nano silver in the range of 15nm-20nm is to use heat, an electrolyte, constant current and eventually a reducing agent. This process is very accurate and well documented and its pure chemistry, no bullshit attached.

The process is described here:

http://www.cgcsforum.com/Articles/MakingCSPart2.html

There's even a dedicated forum where much more info is available.

Anyway that's a whole completely different story. Planning on making its own thread. The reason I brought this up is because of the similarities. That is temperature regulation, an electrolyte and perhaps even a constant current generator. It will pay off to have people that are well versed in chemistry, because that's all it is.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2011, 05:01:41 AM »
Broli,

Good post.

Thanks,

GB 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2011, 05:01:41 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 07:54:20 PM »
However it's definitely something that begged the "why can't people make this themselves" question. Especially funny on a forum where people are mostly doing open source free energy research.

In addition to this, the Energetic Forum presented by Energetic Science Ministries (ESM) is a Non Profit organization, and they're using this non-profit organization to promote/sell their books and products through their network affiliate programs and the ASEA MLM scheme, which is against the Law for a non-profit organization.

ASEA is presented by: ESM & Energetic Forum on this site, http://esm.teamasea.com/

GB

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 05:24:43 AM »
In addition to this, the Energetic Forum presented by Energetic Science Ministries (ESM) is a Non Profit organization,
and they're using this non-profit organization to promote/sell their books and products
through their network affiliate programs and the ASEA MLM scheme,
which is against the Law for a non-profit organization.

ASEA is presented by:
ESM & Energetic Forum on this site, http://esm.teamasea.com/

GB

Damned straight Tonto, illegal as it gets...

But churches/bakesales have done it for years.

Someone with a lot of cash to burn
could sue Aaron inside out if they cared to.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2011, 05:24:43 AM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2011, 02:20:55 AM »
It seems this thread is about dead.  I have found a product that appears to make a water that is very similar to the Asea water.  It is a little pricey but it would probably pay for itself in a short while if you used it instead of buying the over priced Asea water.  Here is the link:

http://www.water-prox.com/mineral_redox_right.htm


Carroll

Offline nvisser

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2011, 03:51:25 PM »
Hi Carroll
I cannot find a price anywhere on that website
Vissie

Ok I found it

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2011, 03:51:25 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2011, 11:39:05 PM »
It seems this thread is about dead.  I have found a product that appears to make a water that is very similar to the Asea water.  It is a little pricey but it would probably pay for itself in a short while if you used it instead of buying the over priced Asea water.  Here is the link:

http://www.water-prox.com/mineral_redox_right.htm


Carroll

Carroll, Thanks for bringing the above link to our attention. It looks like there are products already on the market to make Redox (Reduced Oxidation) Water.  From what I've read so far, the Aquatech ProX Technology does appear to produce Redox Water which is very similar to the over priced Asea water.  I agree the device itself is a little pricey, but it should quickly pay for itself as compared to buying the Asea Water.  In addition to this, we now have most of the information needed to replicate a similar device to produce the Redox Water in a safe and effective manner for those who are financially unable to purchase the device which makes the Redox Water.  IMO, this thread is a "Success", which allows one to make the Redox Water safely at home (DIY) and at a much lower cost.  Thanks to everyone who provided helpful information for this project.

Aaron, you should be ashamed of yourself for selling out the EF Members and for registering your non-profit organization with Asea.

Patent for the Aquatech ProX Technology:

http://www.google.ru/patents/download/5435894_Process_and_apparatus_for_improv.pdf?id=LkEnAAAAEBAJ&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U1EPkeJabf-BNxwB5PWVyG9E45g4g&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0

GB

Offline broli

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 12:34:21 AM »
"Suggested retail price: 800$"

That's quite high for a couple of electrodes and electronic components that wouldn't cost 5$ in total.

So all of this comes down to high frequency AC voltage? Doesn't seem that magical anymore.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2011, 12:34:21 AM »
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Offline b_rads

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2011, 03:55:18 PM »
Hey guys,
Just found your thread, and yes, I was one of the participants on the most exciting and revolutionary findings affecting the free energy movement.  Boy did I feel duped.  After doing a little research on the subject I came across this site.  Read the information there and see if the information presented doesn't sound familiar.
http://drinkh2o2.com/
I purchased 17.5% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide off ebay and several of my coworkers and I have just started using it.  I paid less than $18.00 per quart delivered to my house.  This has to be diluted to 3% and then only small amount added to distilled water for daily consumption.  A quart should last a long time.  So far, none in our group has gotten sick or noticed any negative side effects.  I will let you know how this works out for us after we have tried it for a while.
Brad S

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 12:34:50 AM »
Hi everyone, I have read the above patents and I think it is possible to replicate from all the clues given, of course allways playing safe.
I guess, the most critical and expensive component in the set up are the electrodes, so surfing on ebay I found this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120724679996?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

For me looks good, nice and not very expensive. What do you think guys?
I dont have much free time but i'll try to invest some time for research and develop this great discover.
I'm far from being a rich man and i want to be healthy too (and my family). It's worth a try.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 12:34:50 AM »
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Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2011, 10:47:58 PM »
ASEA has 123 mg of sodium per 4 ounces.  from http://www.echifitness.com/Resources/011711-asea-use-notes.pdf
IMO, this is a good starting point in order to get the initial NaCl concentration on the distilled water.
Na = 22.9898g/mol, Cl = 35.453g/mol; this means that NaCl is composed for 39.35% Na and 60.65% Cl.
And 4 water oz = 118.29 cm3 (or grams)
My math would be: ((0.123/0.3935)/118.29)*100= 0.26% <--- The patent says this value is at least 0.15%
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong on the math.

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2011, 11:37:56 PM »
Ok, finally i have my couple of titanium platinized electrodes.
I also have one 1Lt Pyrex glass vessel that i used for making colloidal silver but it will work good after removing all the possible invisible silver debris accumulated on the botton and walls.
This weekend I made a lid out of UHM plastic to fit the electodes and a small dc motor to circulate and stir the water.
I will use 99% pure NaCl from a local lab. And for keeping a very low temp. I will put all the setup inside a cooler with regular water ice.
My real concerning is about chlorates formation, and Sodium chlorate is a non-selective herbicide. It is considered phytotoxic to all green plant parts. It can also kill through root absorption., So I will try it first on several small herbs from the garden just to be sure.
Stay tuned I'll post some updates later.

Offline citfta

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2011, 06:25:06 PM »
Hi charly2,

    Thanks for posting the update.  It sounds like you might have a pretty good handle on the chemistry involved.  I don't know enough about the chemistry to try this on my own so I am interested to see what you come up with.  If you need any help on the electronic side I may be able to help you there.
     
    I tried a couple of bottles of the Asea water.  I found a seller that would sell 2 bottles instead of the case of 4.  I still had to pay $90 by the time they added on the shipping charges.  After a few days I did notice I was sleeping better and had more energy during the day.  I had one day where I was really on the go pretty hard all day and I still was able to finish what I had to do although I was pretty tired when I got done.  I am 65 years old so I don't have the energy I used to have.   By the time I finished the 2 bottles I really didn't see any other significant changes.  I realize 2 bottles is not really a fair test but it is just too expensive to keep taking when I don't really have any major issues to try and resolve.  If you can come up with a reasonable alternative I would be willing to give it a trial for a few months or so to see what effect it would have in the long run.  So I am looking forward to your results.

Thanks again for the update, Carroll

Offline charly2

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Re: DIY - Stable Redox Molecules
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2011, 09:57:53 PM »
Hi Carroll, thanks for sharing your experience dinking it, maybe I'll order also 2 bottles later, just to have a comparison point like ppm's, ph, taste, etc.
BTW it would be really appreciated if someone could check with a TDS meter the PPM on the asea water and share it, that info is not mentioned on the documents and it is in some way linked to the concentration.

And it's really good to know you have good knowledge of electronic because that is one of my weakest point :P

I'll start using a laptop charger 16V DC 4.5 amps and adjusting the distance between electrodes to get the desire current at determined concentration in this case I'll keep it hypertonic at 0.2%. I still don't fully understand the reason to keep the solution above the isotonic point (approx 0.14%),so I'll do it as it's stated in the pattent.
If time allow me, this next weekend I'll make an attempt to do it and test it.

 

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