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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 830871 times)

Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2445 on: September 26, 2023, 06:25:49 PM »
Maybe the first 20secs of that previous video is part of where Sjack Abeling got his inspiration. :)

Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2446 on: September 26, 2023, 06:59:45 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhWQpPkgWd8&list=UUhLg4plP2LAso4lVtG3bA-A&index=12
I like the next video I got more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlSv_IlXmBg&list=UUhLg4plP2LAso4lVtG3bA-A&index=11
It's the method I've been writing about, for having trains that cross vast distances at high speed on little energy. Kinetic energy conservation would become the main game: aerodymamically slick trains with...high mass. The air drag to be experienced will slow down a heavy train less. All stations would have similar altitudes above sea level. Departure platforms a bit higher than than arrivals perhaps, the difference overcome with low speed winches of sorts. Or single arrival/departure platforms, and the kinetic energy lost being added to the train mid-journey, perhaps even only on the final ascend to the next station. Low speed, low loss. On long distances, a cruise drive would be desired to keep speed up.
Stations would be on tall (strong) buildings and/or distances would be travelled on deep underground level tracks. Tube vacuation is a total pain, but if it were possible, a train on track following the bottom of the Atlantic would beat an airplane London to New York, and barely use any energy. Why? Very deep descend, no air drag, very high speeds.

Yes, in a Besser/Abeling type of wheel, I wonder how a weight could render itself absent for part of the lift phase.

Of we'd place that car jump on the wheel, in which phases would the car be driving the wheel, of be driven by it? Is there a case to be made for the car to only partially drive/be driven by the wheel, rather than be in full lock step at the rim?

We can achieve vast horizontal displacement of a weight with much loss in kinetic or potential (height) energy. Can that be an advantage in applying leverage? With a long lever, if connected to the main wheel, the vertical force from gravity will closer match that of the weight on the wheel. On the way down, the wheel may be pushing the weight down more than the other way around. Curious corner case for higher rpm or larger size gravity wheels, but I don't see the gain there, rather a hindrance to scale up.

Another curious thing to consider perhaps is that a horizontally traveling weight that hits a ramp, will ride up up 4x as high when its horizontal speed at the bottom of the ramp was only double. No gain there I can see.

An asymmetric wheel could have the weight take a lot less time to move back up than it did to come down. Might this allow for an imbalanced wheels, expecially if (part of) the ascend is detached from the larger wheel?

The thing that hurts my brain, is the idea that came to me that there might be something with the second derivative of speed. The first derivative is acceleration. The second would be increase/decrease of accerelation. Intuitively I feel something might ben gained there, but I don't even know where to start with it.

With Abeling's patent now defunct, might he be open to getting help to open source the whole thing, or rather die like Bessler, it being a matter of belief? I'm Dutch like him. How to approach an inventor that tried to go commercial but failed? He marketed it as beautiful energy, but for hima dn the patent office were the only beneficiaries.

Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2447 on: September 26, 2023, 11:25:30 PM »
Maybe he got the leaping into the air idea from the first 20 seconds of the previous link.

sm0ky2

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2448 on: September 26, 2023, 11:44:35 PM »
@Cloxxi


Thats a great idea, the Romans used to do this to move infinite masses of water without pumps.

Cloxxki

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2449 on: September 27, 2023, 12:52:47 AM »
I've been out of the game, hadn't seen that Abeling website. He's giving pretty big hints, I now realize.

Says the upward side is "light". Makes me suspect the weight join it with excess speed versus the place on the wheel where they join. With curved slots as we've seen of him in the past, the weights, given some good horizontal speed at the bottom, could be radially catching up to the upward side of the wheel.
The "jumping" longitudinally, doesn't need to be a real jump. The Dutch language kind of implies it, but I'd also also accept the weight moving off the wheels at the upward side, around main axle height or higher, and shifting to a near horizontal support ramp that's OFF the wheel. The weight could then be dropped to hit the wheel with some speed, radially catching up and tranferring some impulse, but still keeping momentum on or off the wheel at the bottom, to hit the tighter bend upward, transfer some energy to the wheel before locking onto it, and being lifted quite straight up near the main axle.

Random thought.
Imagine the weight indeed freefalls (clockwise wheel) from say 2 to 4, and then lands on a pring loaded lever that tightens the weight's inward trajectory and leaves it would do good residual speed for the hard work on the early ascend. The moment the weight leaves that lever, there is a snap back that would positively drive the wheel late in that phase, for the weight, when the weight really at that moment has some decent radial speed, going largely horizontally at the rim of the wheel and perhaps even faster than (being off) the rim.

The weight may have a pretty elaborate path around the wheel, and may even at not one moment be on a circular trajectory around the main axle. Shifting between freefall, helping push the wheel down around 2-4, then pushing again from 6 to 7 or even 7 to 8, and then a passive phase where the momentum of the main wheel is lifting the weight, but hardly necessarily in an orbit of the main axle, At 10 or even 9, it could roll through a trap, transition to a near horizontal path and get freefall from 4 or 3 again.
Perhaps the free fall could be from the height of 12, but above 3 and then do the mother of all freefalls to 3, transfer a lot of momentum there, fall through a trap again and then ROLL across the rim, faster than the rim itself, arriving at 6 early and then doing a vertical push against the wheel. If falling from 12 height, the work up would be going higher. With so little time on the wheel, let along a fixed location on the wheel, it may hardly matter whether you drop from 3 or 12. 12 would just be higher energy.

Anyone here proficient with these simulation softwares I used to see on forums?

Intuitively, I sense there might be something with the relationshipo between the freefall energy (not height or speed), work down on landing, kinetic energy achieve at 6 (could be below 6, I don't know whether that would help, simulation might tell us), the work done on the way up, and how much the wheel needs to work to get the weight to the freefall height. Where the weight surfaces at it summit, left or right, doesn't matter at all. Abeling says that it "jumps", so I suspect it summits left of the axle, tranfers to the right while off the wheel, and then only rejoins the wheel (momentarily or partially by transfering energy but never slowing down to wheel speed and radius), to leave an upward left strike. In my theory, the lifting is the hard part, but the wheels has its own momentum and gets help from eight weight once or twice.

The much discussed tightening radius from 6 to 8-9 MIGHT be the holy grail where the centrifugal force is able to bring anomalous work. A smart exact curve to be taken to make it all work? Don't tell me it's the gold ratio curve...

I like the idea of the weight exceeding wheel speed at 6, making the tight bend, and ending up pushing the wheel as it transition to the radial that was at 7 or 8 already when the weight just passed the 6 position and actually doing some work to the wheel on the way up.
Abeling mentions the wheel being light on the upward side, that might indeed be the vertical car jump thing. That car goes nearly all the way up, and doesn't do work on the way up.

Abeling mentions a stationary moment for the weight from which it's accelerated. Now that could be a previously loaded spring that lifts the wheel to its summit. If that spring is mounted to the downward side it's a double kicker, but harder to accomplish. The spring load could be a sub system loaded when the weight lands (catch is mentioned), and it could be timed to not need any spring at all, just a well placed off-the-wheel lever that is hit by a falling weight and then kick another to its summit.

ramset

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #2450 on: September 27, 2023, 01:07:37 AM »
Maybe he got the leaping into the air idea from the first 20 seconds of the previous link.


I believe Member Dusty (associate of Butch LaFonte ) did build a launching wheel
Earlier in this topic ?
I remember this launch idea being discussed,and Dusty giving it a try ?


Will have to search a bit as Dusty did a few builds ( other topics?)
Respectfully
Chet K