Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Was Bessler for real?  (Read 135647 times)

onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #135 on: March 07, 2023, 05:41:02 PM »
Clues to the Wheel's Design
   

    Machine was set in motion by weights.
    - Bessler

    Weights acted in pairs
    - Bessler

    Weights gained force from their own swinging.
    - Bessler

    Weights came to be placed together, arranged one against another.
    - Bessler

    Weights applied force at right angles to the axis.
    - Bessler

    Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.
    - Bessler

    The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter.
    - Bessler

    Weights may have been pierced in the middle and attached by connecting springs.
    - Acta Eridutorum, An Account of the Perpetuum Mobile of J. E. E. Orffyreus, 1715

   

    Weights were heard hitting the side of the wheel going down.
    - eyewitness accounts

    Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another.
    - eyewitness accounts

    Weights may have been attached to movable or elastic arms on the periphery of the wheel.
    - Johann Christian Wolff, eyewitness account

    Weights may have landed on slightly warped boards.
    - Johann Christian Wolff, eyewitness account

    Weights were cylindrical.
    - Johann Christian Wolff, eyewitness account

    About 8 weights fell during each revolution of the wheel, which took about 3 seconds. (wheel diameter ~ 12 feet)
    - Joseph Fischer, eyewitness account

Grimer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • Frank Grimer's Website
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #136 on: September 01, 2023, 03:33:09 PM »

...
This is a good website...https://besslerwheel.com/
The clues section is interesting...https://besslerwheel.com/clues.html

I think it's funny, a few hundred years later nobody has any better idea what the Primary Fields (Electric, Magnetic, Gravity) and inertia are than in Bessler's day. It's a black hole of knowledge few seem intelligent enough to crack.

AC
Black hole indeed.


You might be interested in the BesslerWheel thread by Senax entitled Terragravitic Induction[/font][/size][/b]

thx4

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Youtube
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #137 on: September 03, 2023, 11:14:29 AM »

There's no doubt that Bessler built several wheels (Testimonies, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, one of the greatest scientists of his time).
Hasn't anyone figured it out yet? According to you!


Why would Bessler have given clues? I think the opposite, just truisms (the sky is blue, the earth is round).
Can gravity keep an object in motion, falling continuously without any known energy?
On paper, no, and that's to be expected. We still doubt we'll ever be able to ride a bike, we're not even on the draisienne yet.




onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #138 on: September 03, 2023, 06:40:07 PM »
thx4
Quote
Why would Bessler have given clues? I think the opposite, just truisms (the sky is blue, the earth is round).
Can gravity keep an object in motion, falling continuously without any known energy?
On paper, no, and that's to be expected. We still doubt we'll ever be able to ride a bike, we're not even on the draisienne yet.

It's an interesting story which still applies today...

Bessler was a genius, scholar, philosopher and a true craftsman similar to Leonardo Da Vinci. He invented all kinds of things and eventually found a way to harness the force of gravity with a machine. Then he tried to sell his gravity machine and the secret for a rather large sum of money. This is when the problems started.

Like many inventors today including FE inventors Bessler found almost all the wealthy people who could buy his machine were psychotic and would rather try to steal his work. Countless people could have bought the tech and helped humanity but they were psychotic and only wanted to help themselves. After being gaslighted and cheated on countless occasions Bessler finally lost faith in humanity and went into seclusion like many other geniuses. In fact, Leonardo da Vinci was also persecuted and received harsh treatment similar to Bessler.

We have heard this story countless times. Inventor gets cheated then stalked by psychopaths, goes into seclusion giving some hints as to how a technology works to help people then disappears. You see most wealthy people are psychopaths/predators, they don't buy tech they steal it and then try and take credit for it or bury it. It's always the same old sad story.

To answer your other question...
Quote
Can gravity keep an object in motion, falling continuously without any known energy?

Probably not, but your assessment is simplistic, subjective and has literally nothing to do with how the tech actually works.

Here's a clue,
Question to ChatGPT, does fusion from hydrogen to helium change the total mass present?.

Quote
Answer, The process of fusion, where hydrogen nuclei (protons) combine to form helium nuclei, does indeed result in a change in the total mass present. This change is governed by Einstein's famous equation, E=mc^2, which relates energy (E) to mass (m) and the speed of light (c).
Quote
There are several phenomena and processes that can alter the total mass of an object.

Here we have proof the mass of an object is not constant and under certain circumstances can change. Obviously Bessler did not use fusion however if the mass of an object can be altered in one case then it could be possible to alter it in other cases. In effect, if the mass changed then so does the force of gravity on it and the apparent weight. In effect, some process inside a closed box could make the box appear to get lighter or heavier. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out an object changing weight could perform work.

So the next time some amateur claims it's impossible to change the mass/weight of something inside a closed box all you have to say is that there is a fusion reaction taking place inside it. You see, real science can be fun...

AC



thx4

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • Youtube
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2023, 11:56:16 AM »
Comment on peut dire autant de conneries au KM,
Visite le clos Lucé pour léonard de Vinci, et ça t’évitera d’être aussi présomptueux sur sa vie. Encore un qui sait tout.
Pour Bessler même combat en pire, plutôt tyrannique le philosophe, instruit surement, génie pas encore et probablement jamais.
Bref post sans intérêt comme pour le reste.


How can you say so much bullshit at KM,
Visit Clos Lucé for Leonardo da Vinci, and you won't be so presumptuous about his life. Another know-it-all.
For Bessler, it's the same battle, only worse: the philosopher is rather tyrannical, probably well-educated, but not yet a genius, and probably never will be.
In short, this post is as pointless as the rest.

stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #140 on: September 04, 2023, 10:57:05 PM »
For these having not much to do with their time,
- who are interested with more or less verifiable history
it is also good to know that:
No mechanical system ever was approved by  patent office as self powered in entire history of patents.
Name  of a hero is no important to us.
No practical solution for mechanical systems is ever available in energy generation field.
___________________________________________________________
However water wheel is mechanical, works and is open for innovations in Patent Office.
Wind turbine is mechanical system having electrical generator and is open for innovations in Patent Office.
Combustion engine is  mechanical.
Hydrogen motor is mechanical
So only systems converting one source of energy into another  works
in any field and that is  the general rule.
Wesley

dxer_87

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #141 on: September 04, 2023, 11:21:59 PM »
Hello Stivep!

I think any giroscope looped by any gear (teeth or belt) will be best and most powerful solution for nowadays knowledge (COP 10-50).

Giroscopes may be found in toys.

onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #142 on: September 05, 2023, 02:00:35 AM »
stivep
Quote
For these having not much to do with their time,
- who are interested with more or less verifiable history
it is also good to know that:
No mechanical system ever was approved by  patent office as self powered in entire history of patents.
Name  of a hero is no important to us.
No practical solution for mechanical systems is ever available in energy generation field.

Interesting take but as usual you said nothing of value which moves the conversation forward comrade...

I explained Bessler's history then went on to explain why he didn't disclose his technology. I then added some context and a possible solution based on Bessler's own words. Ergo, a system of levers and mass/momentum transfer seems unlikely however a change in the system properties could work.

For example, imagine the consequences of what would happen if we could hide the "weight" of a "mass" in a system?. You see weight is completely dependent on a field of force we call gravity. Where the mass of an object is not dependent on gravity but a property of mass we call inertia. There is no such thing as "weight" in outer space and everything including all the objects, planets and stars are very much weight-less. We cannot put a scale under anything in space because it would always read zero.

Which begs the question, what if we could reproduce the weight-less properties of space down here on Earth?. Well, all bets are off because now any object could have weight or not depending on the circumstances. All we would have to do is place two equal weights on a lever, remove the weight from the mass on one end of the lever and watch the other end fall performing work, easy peasy.

As Bessler and the people who saw the internal mechanism claimed, it's so simple even a child could understand it. Don't you find that strange, it's so simple even a child could understand it and yet you cannot?...

AC











stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #143 on: September 05, 2023, 01:53:46 PM »
Philosophy in real everyday life
Here is how the logic is applied.
Use this method in real life  it helps a lot to avoid bad decisions and improves understanding.
example:
step 1: compare analyzed text  to other sources of the same.
                 e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Bessler
step 2: original text was chopped into elements ( building blocks) :

1. It's an interesting story which still applies today...
2. Bessler was a genius, scholar, philosopher and a true craftsman
3. He invented//and eventually found a way to harness the force of gravity with a machine.
4. Then he tried to sell his gravity machine and the secret for a rather large sum of money.
This is when the problems started.

step 3: Than try to make one sentence from it.
example: "Besler inventor had problems to sale his gravity machine."

step 4: Now we build our conclusions about the known information.
step 5: All the unknown looks now more appalling, appealing, neutral etc.

Note: the only difference or similarity between you and me is scientifically (socially) recognized level
,used
to analyze "the unknown" based on "the known."
Analyze anything you want  from God , spirituality, health, science, fiends, family, law and love, morality, sensual and sexual freedom of choice and action.

Method of Exclusion: when you exclude the cause (a reason for an action or condition )
e.g. excluding God changes your  understanding of science, morality, sensual, sexual freedom of choice and action.
____________________________________________________
These 5 points  saves you time and money.
far less mistakes in life,
  like:
Why I didn't become a licensed electrician in USA, NY who in average here makes almost for certain, not less than $500k per year.
-knowing that I do not need for that any  formal education at all( high school and 7 years of work in electrical company)

Now think about any young guy who reads just that  last  sentence of mine.
How many of them wants to have not less than half of a million dollars every year.
How this few words changes their life?
Emigration, marriage for Green card,  or worker visa, adaptation, your own business.
90% of an average Russian young interested in electricity, would want that now.
Electrical engineer  is required 3 years of work in USA NY electrical company.
These with money can open  their own company tomorrow employing  for only ~7 years a licensed electrician who doesn't want to be in business.( for an average salary 140k/year)
Investment required: to become an electrician in NY : few screwdrivers, pliers,  hand tools= $150
Wesley
« Last Edit: September 05, 2023, 06:03:58 PM by stivep »

stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #144 on: September 05, 2023, 02:13:54 PM »
 first take look at the comment right above this one  than read what's below:
stivep
you said nothing of value which moves the conversation forward
I'm real - means better than Chat GPT.
I'm nobody till someone see value in me -  how many  people can say that about themselves?
------------------------------------------------------------


"Movement  has a vector that in any direction  always points and  moves forward from its start , and its foreword helps you understand it."
 -Try this above sentence in AI it will get lost:
"Hello, this is Bing. I’m not sure what you are trying to say. Do you have a question or a topic you want to search? 🤔"

Wesley
« Last Edit: September 05, 2023, 06:11:44 PM by stivep »

onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #145 on: September 05, 2023, 06:19:30 PM »
Here's a clue about Bessler...
https://orffyre.tripod.com/id16.html
Bessler history, a good read

Quote
young Orffyreus was an exceptional student of such things as science, mathematics, languages, and mechanics.  Among his many skills, he knew how to build clocks, watches, mills, and organs. He also understood smelting and casting. Like Leonardo Da Vinci, he seems to have been a man of many talents, and studied theology, medicine and painting as well as mechanics.

In my opinion this is exactly the kind of person who has the skills and ability to discover something new, a genius.

Think of the skills of a clockmaker,
-all the parts need to be precision made and efficient as possible
-all the masses and motions of countless parts fully understood
-countless parts perfectly timed and synchronized with each other

These are exactly the skills and understanding one would need to build the kind of device in question. I would bet nobody here has these skills or even knows someone with them. You think your smart and skilled?, then build me a watch on par with a Rolex from scratch. This is the level of knowledge and expertise Bessler had which may explain why he could do what he supposedly did.

However we do not need to be a genius like Bessler nor possess all his understanding. Bessler did all the hard work and left us many clues on how to proceed.

I found it's much easier to break everything down into first principals and simplify what was said.
1)The device uses the "motion" of "weights" acting on "mechanical parts" like springs, gears and levers.
2)The well known concept of equal and opposite action/reaction dictates that there can be no conventional gain in energy.
3)Ergo, the only option left is a change in the properties of some element within the system.
4)Under what circumstances could a system property change or appear to change?.

Most think this is impossible but it's not that difficult. Suppose we had a weight at the perimeter of the wheel. Then a trigger activated a spring which flung the weight into the air inside the wheel to some other part of the wheel. For as long as that weight is airborne and not touching the wheel it has left the system and cannot act on any part of the wheel. For all purposes the weight has completely disappeared until it comes to rest somewhere else after a time period. Now if one spring expands throwing the weight into the air and when it lands it compresses another spring the energy can be conserved. Here we can see we could make a weight periodically disappear from the system and the loss would be very small. This is only one of countless way to periodically hide a property like weight or mass within a system.

AC










stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #146 on: September 05, 2023, 07:51:59 PM »
Bessler was hunting nonsense -in terms of today science.
Nonsense has very little lack for any discovery.
These committed to the doable not to the nonsense
must have distinctive  education or  be autodidacts or be just very lucky.
For every upside, there’s a downside.
Misfortune - unfortunate or distressing result  is not what you want Dear onepower.
Any activity in any place Bessler had, should  make you aware  that:
- Entertainment  ends when you need to buy some flowers to your girlfriend and than support your future family needs.
We may agree or disagree but my risk of valuable examination, is lesser in the eyes of the educated in this art crowd
and you are trying to exercise a "revolutionist" who lost or who lost big time.
-Intelligent, gifted, but  moving in the  wrong direction.
Wesley
« Last Edit: September 05, 2023, 10:42:24 PM by stivep »

onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #147 on: September 05, 2023, 11:48:58 PM »
stivep
Quote
Bessler was hunting nonsense -in terms of today science.

Yes I got that the first time my Russian troll, after the N'th time it only made you look like an imbecile. As if repeating something over and over and over somehow makes it more true, it doesn't.

Back to the actual topic of this thread, I have a theory about what Bessler may have been doing...

Like any new or advanced technology, even those we currently know of, the premise must rely on some element few ever considered. For example, many people said you cannot fly because your too heavy. Then someone invented an airplane which could fly. It is true that people cannot fly, but they can ride in an airplane which can fly. It's a matter of perspective...

In effect, we should not be looking for an effect most people would have thought of but the last thing they ever would have considered. This is why another brilliant inventor by the name of Victor Schaberger implied we should always do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. I mean, if what were doing is not producing the desired results then why keep doing it?. Why not try to change?, what have you got to lose and what to gain?. Mix it up, try something new...

I don't know, maybe as an Engineer raised on the farm I'm a little rough around the edges. So when someone claims I cannot do something my first instinct is to tell them to go fuck themselves and the horse they rode in on. I will decide what I can and cannot do not some nit wit who hasn't even tried...

AC








stivep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3567
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #148 on: September 06, 2023, 04:56:26 AM »
//many people said you cannot fly because your too heavy. Then someone invented an airplane which could fly. //
I don't know, maybe as an Engineer raised on the farm I'm a little rough around the edges. So when someone claims I cannot do something my first instinct is to tell them to go fuck themselves and the horse they rode in on. I will decide what I can and cannot do not some nit wit who hasn't even tried...
AC
You have valid point with airplane.
Bird was first , human, replicated  observable phenomena.
No conflict with science was ever present.

- and yes - you decide.. true statement , no questions.
To find the way around you need to find how to fly in perpetual motion area
as a first human in history of human kind...
I do not think it is possible.
Wesley

TommeyReed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 327
Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #149 on: September 06, 2023, 07:50:49 AM »
Hi All,

One thing that really gets me is claims that is over 10 years on this forum.

Has anyone try building a prototype on this forum?

It seem like a Howard Johnson Motor that can be duplicated.

If nobody has try to duplicate this theory, I would be willing to take a jab at building one.

Tom