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Author Topic: Was Bessler for real?  (Read 101322 times)

Offline christo4_99

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #120 on: February 01, 2012, 01:00:37 AM »
Now more than ever I must reiterate to all of those who have ridiculed this noble search , website after website , column after column they have boasted that they " know " that our efforts will be without fruit ! Well just as Bessler warned nearly 300 years ago , you should hold your tongue ! You should patiently await the outcome without becoming hastily opinionated or swayed by false teachings . To opponents : (Wash your hands before you eat but let all ill intent issue from the heart out of the mouth and into the wide world ) . I tell you with all my heart that this subject is far from dead ! So celebrate with me the strength of the human resolve . Celebrate with me that Bessler was not content to let a true wonder and (supposed) impossibility fall to the wayside and be forgotten .

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #120 on: February 01, 2012, 01:00:37 AM »

Offline Rafael Ti

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #121 on: February 01, 2012, 02:56:19 AM »
Of course he was for real... Doing my researches on Bessler I met some suggestions that wheel needs apart from weights also the counterweight and some ratchet mechanisms. We remember that Bessler worked as a watchmaker and I am pretty sure he brought some ideas from cloock mechanisms to his wheel. And what I realized yesterday... using a counterweight on one side in opposition to weights on other side plus ratchet mechanism is a reliable solution, or just one of many. I say many, cause this one will give a pulse movement of the wheel, not exactly as Bessler one.
Also believe that wheels operating on moving weights only can do a work too, but the key is a proper tuning, precision and elimination as many 'dead patchs' for weights as possible. The 'dead patch' is a path the weight goes on not doing any work under force of gravity or doing a very little.
I'll try to ilustrate these ideas soon... if I find any simple program to do it :D

Raf

P.S.
I am wondering why did Bessler hide his mechanism from the entire world. Perhaps there was no Patent Office at that time? 8)

Offline johnny874

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2012, 05:23:38 PM »
Of course he was for real... Doing my researches on Bessler I met some suggestions that wheel needs apart from weights also the counterweight and some ratchet mechanisms. We remember that Bessler worked as a watchmaker and I am pretty sure he brought some ideas from cloock mechanisms to his wheel. And what I realized yesterday... using a counterweight on one side in opposition to weights on other side plus ratchet mechanism is a reliable solution, or just one of many. I say many, cause this one will give a pulse movement of the wheel, not exactly as Bessler one.
Also believe that wheels operating on moving weights only can do a work too, but the key is a proper tuning, precision and elimination as many 'dead patchs' for weights as possible. The 'dead patch' is a path the weight goes on not doing any work under force of gravity or doing a very little.
I'll try to ilustrate these ideas soon... if I find any simple program to do it :D

Raf

P.S.
I am wondering why did Bessler hide his mechanism from the entire world. Perhaps there was no Patent Office at that time? 8)

  Hi Rafael,
 I think one reason why Bessler might have kept his design secret initially was because of his friend. It was about money. But after his demonstrations were not recieved the way he hoped, he chose his writings.
 
@Christo, while Bessler might have been very religious, I do not think I would go so far as to call him a prophet. To say that machines could make our lives easier was already known.
 The British had gone to spinning 10 bobbins of thread. This allowed them to import cotton from India and export thread back to India and sell it cheaper. Money is a strong motivator  :)

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2012, 05:23:38 PM »
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Offline christo4_99

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #123 on: February 01, 2012, 06:02:59 PM »
It's not that I am saying he was a prophet because of his ability to see the future or something like that , I'm saying that he "saw" the mobile and this he received from God . Don't take the things I say out of context and add your own interpretation please . A prophet can be anyone who sees things that other people can't see . Obviously , in this sense , Bessler , if he was genuine , is the ONLY person to ever realize such a thing as he invented .Half the time all anyone wants to do is argue or correct what someone else says . If you're so damn smart as to assume to correct the things I'm saying then I leave it to you my friend , to solve the mobile and let all these fine people in on the news of it's arrival .

Offline johnny874

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #124 on: February 02, 2012, 12:48:07 PM »
It's not that I am saying he was a prophet because of his ability to see the future or something like that , I'm saying that he "saw" the mobile and this he received from God . Don't take the things I say out of context and add your own interpretation please . A prophet can be anyone who sees things that other people can't see . Obviously , in this sense , Bessler , if he was genuine , is the ONLY person to ever realize such a thing as he invented .Half the time all anyone wants to do is argue or correct what someone else says . If you're so damn smart as to assume to correct the things I'm saying then I leave it to you my friend , to solve the mobile and let all these fine people in on the news of it's arrival .

>>   If you're so damn smart as to assume to correct the things I'm saying then I leave it to you my friend , to solve the mobile and let all these fine people in on the news of it's arrival .  <<

  Have done it and have been looking for a professional wood worker to build it.

                                                                                                    Bye

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #124 on: February 02, 2012, 12:48:07 PM »
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Offline christo4_99

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2012, 06:55:52 PM »
Good luck with that ....

Offline johnny874

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #126 on: February 03, 2012, 12:47:56 AM »
Good luck with that ....

  Thanks.
 I am going to talk to a wood worker tonight. I am hoping to have it built for under $500 U.S. dollars.
That is the price of not having a place to build  :)
 There are reasons why I tone down the religious aspect of Bessler. He did seem to be quite religious.
But in my own life, people tell me I have the Lord in my life. This is why I was almost killed by a van and then had cancer and Bessler for icing on the cake. And all of this with no family or friends.
 There was a time I did like pursuing Bessler but another poster wanted to put a religious spin on things by making false statements.
 One clue that everyone has missed is the attached drawing. Those are not pendulums but are crosses. Bessler's way of saying have faith. The one in front of the wheel has a dual meaning. The other reference is to trigonometry. It is one reason why I perservered even though everyone seemed to be against any demonstration of what Bessler actually knew and did accomplish.
 I did exchange a couple of e-mails with John Collins about Bessler using Orphyreus. John told me Bessler was questioned as to him believing he was like Orpheus to which he answered no. I told John he gave the correct answer. He is not like Orpheus but was like Hermes who invented the lyre which Orpheus made sing for a woman. Yep, there always seems to be a woman that motivates a man more than any God can, can you believe that ?
 I can't wait to meet her  ;) ;)

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #126 on: February 03, 2012, 12:47:56 AM »
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Offline quantumtangles

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #127 on: April 15, 2012, 08:28:54 PM »
Gravity is a one trick pony. The only trick it can do is to convert potential energy to kinetic energy. But you always have to supply potential energy in the first place in order for this conversion process to happen.


Accordingly, as gravity is merely a converter, where does the potential energy (to run your PM pendulum machines) supposedly come from? How is gravity supposed to convert potential energy into kinetic energy if there is no continuous supply of potential energy to begin with?


How in the world are your machines supposed to work 'perpetually' if you do not 'perpetually' supply gravity with potential energy? Permit me to explain why these machines cannot possibly work. Imagine a water pipe. You can never get more water out of the bottom end of the water pipe than you supplied to the top end of it. An uncontroversial matter of fact if ever there was one. But when people think of energy, they get hopelessly confused, so I will clarify things in terms you can understand.


Giga-electron volts are used by the world's best physicists in CERN (at the Large Hadron Collider) as a unit of MASS. This is because of the mass/energy equivalence principle established by Einstein.


Accordingly, just as you cannot hope to get more water out of the bottom of a pipe than you pour into the top of it, so too, you can never get more energy of any sort out of any system than you supply to it in the first place.


And for the avoidance of doubt, this applies to 'PM' gravity devices as well. You must always supply potential energy to enable the force of gravity to take effect, but you can never get more energy out of a so called PM machine than you put into it in the first place. Even an ideal machine with 100% efficiency cannot exceed 100% efficiency for this reason.


If you still think PM machines are possible after reading this, you might seriously consider having an independently administered IQ test. Independently verified confirmation of a low IQ on your part may save you thousands of dollars in equipment and materials, and vast amounts of time.

Offline johnny874

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #128 on: April 15, 2012, 10:55:47 PM »
q n a
think i,mdone with this,
hae heard the saint christo knows the answer,
my ignprant resppnxe would be bessler lnew a differebt applicationbof what we
know to b tru today, unvrtunately, it seems no one understands hydraulic theor,
typps bcause on a three inch scrern and need glsssex

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #128 on: April 15, 2012, 10:55:47 PM »
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Offline christo4_99

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #129 on: April 16, 2012, 05:08:19 AM »
@QT,

I suppose you believe all the other explanations of everything that science has to offer like how if you go far enough back in time ( which actually might not even exist ) that somehow everything came from nothing . The fact is there has never been a man like Bessler to make such a total and fearless search for the P.M. principle . He found it and you can only run your mouth about something that actually happened because he never sold it . Now while you run your mouth , although you never founded any scientific laws yourself ...I am planning on building the very device that Bessler displayed in his time . What loophole are you gonna jump through in the event that it does work ? Seriously ... you cannot disprove anything based on ignorance . You cannot say that something is impossible because YOU DON'T KNOW . And if I say I DO know then what ? I suppose no one can have more information than you do ? All learning and experimentation leads to nowhere ... is that the most of it ? Bessler really shredded his opponents . That's what you fail to see . They were silenced by a 54 day run in a castle . Ever notice there's no Wagner Critiques after Bessler moved into the castle . This kind of ignorance , the kind that is inherited and unfounded is what Bessler had a problem with and probably the real reason that he never sold his invention . I have thought about the law of coe and gravity being a conservative force and what a device like this would have to say about that .  I think that it comes down to whether or not a force can be created initially ...and I say it can . If the information that I have is wrong , and I really don't think it is , then I'll give up . But I will never listen to someone like you who doesn't realize that great men err too and then people follow them  making their errors the incontestable "truth" .  Many an inventor has surpassed a so called scientist in their achievement and many a (just one actually ) scientist has caused more damage by tinkering with fundamental particles than we can ever undo . As far as cern is concerned I dare to speculate that there is no higgs and things ( constituent parts of matter ) are infinitely smaller and infinitely undetectable ... just as there is no limit to how large something can be . Cern is a waste of money and time .

P.S. I just thought of a perfect way to end this argument or whatever it is . If you were to see a working device such as the one I am planning I know what you would say :"THAT'S CHEATING !!! :'(
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 07:06:35 AM by christo4_99 »

Offline quantumtangles

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2012, 01:15:59 PM »
@QT,

As far as cern (sic) is concerned I dare to speculate that there is no higgs (sic) and things ( constituent parts of matter ) (sic) are infinitely smaller and infinitely undetectable ... just as there is no limit to how large something can be . Cern is a waste of money and time .



Never wrestle with a Pig. You will both get dirty but the pig will enjoy it. By the same token, always avoid 'scientific arguments' with people who only express 'opinions'. They never allow their opinions to be contaminated by trivial considerations such as data, equations or empirical evidence.


The point here is that facts are more much more important than opinions when discussing matters of science. For this reason, I have not responded to the majority of your 'opinions'. What would be the point? I will get muddy and you will enjoy it. However, your last sentence (another opinion) went beyond the pale. It was a blow below the belt and in that sense a response may be justified.


Newton identified and explained the force of gravity in terms of its effects. But before Professor Higgs and others came along and published papers in the 1960s, the question...'what makes particles have mass' remained unanswered.


CERN is vitally important, inter alia, because discovery of the Higgs boson (somewhere in or about the 125 Gigaelectron volt range), would constitute the first reliable experimental evidence in support of the hypothesis that particles are imbued with mass in consequence of the presence of this boson. This is really important science, which could have widespread theoretical and practical implications (should the Higgs Boson be confirmed with 5 Cigma probability). If the particle is confirmed, it may then be a matter of time before these bosons can be separated in a magnetic field or Bose Einstein condensate of some sort. The implication just might be that the mass of a particle could then be manipulated using these bosons. Real science.


On the one hand, you support 'research' into PM machines (which cannot possibly work for reasons I had to lower my IQ to explain), and on the other hand you oppose serious research that could and probably will change the way we view the world and also enable us to build marvellous machines that actually work (such as, for example, the computer your luddite views were expressed on).


The upshot is that you advance quackery whilst opposing serious science, the most likely explanation for which being egoic. Which is to say, you wish to be 'the one' who makes a working Bessler wheel, and if you cannot do so (which of course you will not be able to do), in the meantime you would like a coterie of acolytes to marvel at your every enigmatic word during the great Delphic process of building the machine to end all machines. A trillion dollar masterpiece which your oracular genius has finally enabled the world to understand.


Ghastly.

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2012, 01:15:59 PM »
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Offline johnny874

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #131 on: April 16, 2012, 01:23:18 PM »
@QT,
YOU DON'T KNOW . And if I say I DO know then what ?

   Christo,
 Why not use your real name which is Chris ? As to that statement, IF is a mighty big
word when you have NEVER shown anything. Posting claims is proof of nothing
but your desire for attention.

@Quantum, gravity is not the converter but the force to be manipulated/converted. it does
need a medium. I'll let blow hard know it all Christo explain this unless Christo really
doesn't know anything about engineering and/or basic science.
 And what he missed, Bessler built things besides perpetual wheels. Doubt they were a die hard quest for
him but he found engineering interesting. Also, gravity in 1687 (when Bessler was born) was a newly discovered idea than many people experimented with. And today ? A lot of people just post without taking the time to learn. Not sure how much interest you've had in science or engineering but it does help to have read up some on it. As such, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is not the issue. One reason is if a wheel can sustain a sufficient over balance to continuously generate force, then any energy loss due to entropy or the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics would be accounted for.
 Myself, I think Christo might be like AB Hammer and wanting to use religion or a connotation there of to make their views seem more important than the reality of Bessler merely being a man ahead of his times. And in the early 1700's, mechanical engineering was in it's infancy so little use to for such talents.

edited to correct year Newton published his book, En Principia. At the time, Bessler was a lad of 7 years.
The industrial revolution was just starting in England. It's start ? They spun 10 bobbins of thread at one time.
Before this, spinning ginnies were used to spin it one bobbin at  a time.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 06:08:39 PM by johnny874 »

Offline christo4_99

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Re: Was Bessler for real?
« Reply #132 on: April 16, 2012, 06:35:39 PM »
I'll just build it . Nuff said .

 

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