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Author Topic: Standing Waves in Generators  (Read 53319 times)

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 01:16:39 AM »
I still think that one of the active experimenters would sooner or later stumble over an outstanding energy gain when experimenting with bucking coils.

As I do not have the simulation skills, I have again adjusted my stator coil to rotor mag distance closer (more Vout) and am again sweeping Rload.  Very laborious and time consuming.  Grind, grind, grind.  (I feel like Edison and should get chewed out by Tesla for this inefficient approach.  But it's all I've got.)

I still think what we need is someone who can understand and program Dr. Turtur's sim.  He has posted his code for download, but it is so flexible that one must have a complete understanding of the Romero system as well as the software program in order to enter all the correct variables to simulate Romero's set up.  This is (again) way beyond my skills.

We need a sim/program guy with enough physics background to bend that sim code to our needs.

I naturally lean towards Poynt99, but while he may be a skilled sim program user, maybe not a programmer himself.

Any other takers?

M.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 01:16:39 AM »

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 01:22:05 AM »
I pondered about this for a while.
Utkin talked about Kapanadze`s coil being a capacitor.
He manages to get huge displacement currents between the plates (or coils).
The 6 million dollar question is how hehe.

Quote
We need a sim/program guy with enough physics background to bend that sim code to our needs.

The problem is that this software is something like 50k $ ;)

It is sadly like Bolt sais, you need to be an expert in RF tuning to get this right.
I am sure that once you saw the effect, you could go from there.

Made another generator coil that i simply put on the other side of the rotor,
so that it is physically distant, but maximally out of phase.
Then i tried to charge the cap with zero current on the ampmeter using different caps.

The problem with this approach is that the PF is supposedly 0.
So by introducing capacitors it is in other applications possible to change
it, but not here. The voltage and current are 180 degrees out of phase and not 90 degrees which would be favourable for RE extraction. I gotta dive deeper into the theory to tackle that.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 01:43:31 AM »
The problem is that this software is something like 50k $ ;)

Which begs this question:  Would Dr. Turtur be willing to help us?  He obviously has access to the software.

I know Dr. Turtur is helping others and cannot help us all.  But is he aware of the Romero device?  Does he know how many people are looking at this embodiment?  Would he be willing to assist us with understanding the variable parameters better by setting up his sim for this embodiment and showing the results?

@X?

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 01:43:31 AM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2011, 01:57:09 AM »
Which begs this question:  Would Dr. Turtur be willing to help us?  He obviously has access to the software.

I know Dr. Turtur is helping others and cannot help us all.  But is he aware of the Romero device?  Does he know how many people are looking at this embodiment?  Would he be willing to assist us with understanding the variable parameters better by setting up his sim for this embodiment and showing the results?

@X?

Hmm, well i believe the man is highly focused on his research.
Adapting the sim would take some time and that is exactly what a guy like him doesn't have. Apart from that he certainly wants to come up with something that carries his own signature (even though none of that is entirely new).

Keep in mind that in the sim, all the thousands of adjustments that Romero has done to the Bias magnets, would also have to be fed in over and over again.

I would say you never know until you ask him, so maybe just drop him a short mail. )

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 02:08:23 AM »
Hmm, well i believe the man is highly focused on his research.
I would say you never know until you ask him, so maybe just drop him a short mail. )

The last paper that I saw from Dr. Turtur (that you posted), appeared to be an attempt to answer many FAQs that he had been receiving.  In that paper he actually set up and ran his sim code with specific values for a specific embodiment in order to show his "colleagues" how to do so.

My belief is that he wants to assist others in building devices that prove his opera, but of course he cannot assist every individual.  BUT, if he is made aware of a large group who is working on replicating an embodiment of one of the theoretical devices his algorithms can simulate, this might be of great interest to the man.

Thoughts?

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 02:08:23 AM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 04:03:27 AM »
I just placed a cap across the other legs of the bifilar coil set, not sure what it is but it has .047 + - 20% 200WV EM written on it.  With this cap I get more voltage out (4.8VAC) plus I actually get measurable current (.23mA), without no measurable current.

Hmm, but do you not actually create a series adding connection with that connection of the other legs? That way you would loose the capacitor effect and have just a coil.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 01:26:01 AM »

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 01:26:01 AM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 01:41:50 PM »
Interesting.

Another question:

Can you take the output of a generator coil and place a jumper wire across the ends then attach your DMM to those same leads and still get a reading?

Depends on what you wanna read.
Since this is a dead short, you will have no current through your meter for sure if it is across the 2 leads like a voltage measurement.
There is controversy about the voltage, because to do a voltage measurement in a DMM you need current, which won't flow through the DMM in such condition.
If you look at it from knot potential perspective there is only one potential across the short.
Meter in series will of course show you the short-circuit current.


Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 04:36:58 PM »
Not sure what a knot potential is,, google may help.

Yes a dead short and yes I still get a current reading.

I thought that perhaps maybe what I have created is either a bad meter and nothing is there, or maybe a standing wave, but then I thought that since my current is in AC then not standing but maybe in quadrature.

Sorry my bad, i mean node-voltage potential as from node analysis.
It's easy to determine if you have a standing wave/resonant condition, just change the frequency and observe your reading, if it has a peak at a certain frequency it is most likely a resonance.

So i take it you connected your meter in series with the short?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 04:36:58 PM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2011, 01:52:20 AM »
Most DMMs have a very low internal resistance too, so basically this seems to be Kirchhoff's rule, you got current through two parallel resistances, one being the shorting wire (also very low). That would be my explanation.

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2011, 09:50:32 PM »
I am brainstorming today about the opposing bucking coils which carry 180 degrees out of phase voltages and currents.
So far none of us has been able to really "catch" the full energy of the 2 signals or make a measurement that shows the complete magnitude of them.
A current measurement through a 1 Ohm-Resistor is pointless because the meters can only measure in-phase currents.
I still think a voltage probe measurement should be possible when done with the ground unconnected at the right point on the conductor.
When you look at the 2 signals that travel in opposite directions, then it is noticable that the nodes develop at a specific point in the conductor let's say at a certain length l away from one end of the coil (probably due to the geometry of the coil not changing when the magnet passes this point will be the same throughout the whole wave period)

So to dump energy from the signals into a cap we would have to make sure that that point of the conductor lies exactly on the terminal of our dump cap.

What would be the best method to find this exact point?

Now at a rotor speed of 150 Hertz we would also expect 2 out-of-phase 150 Hertz signals in the generator coil pair.
That would correspond to a wavelength of :

Quote
150 hertz = 1998.616386667 wavelength in kilometres

If for some reason, what we are chasing here, isn't an enormous upper harmonic of that frequency or some ominous RF component, then the chances are low to actually catch that current-node in our small centimeter-wire length generator circuit.

If someone sees another way to proceed to extract energy out of this situtation, please go ahead and describe it.
This just reflects what i have been so far able to find out about the nature of low frequency out-of-phase signals.


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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2011, 09:50:32 PM »
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Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2011, 02:58:56 AM »
In my low tech way of doing things, when I need to turn my DC into AC I use a capacitive voltage divider and when using this simple thing I have current traveling both ways on the wire between the two caps at the same time because I am using it to run two coils.  Maybe something like that?

Well, if the currents are 180 out-of-phase and of the same amplitude and frequency, then i'd like to know how you "use" them or get them in-phase again. ) Maybe a schem of the voltage divider.

If you choose a slightly smaller inductance for one of the bucking coils, you can see what is going on in spice.

A good read to grasp the differences between transmission lines and electrically "short" circuits : http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/5.html
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:45:15 AM by xenomorphlabs »

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2011, 10:19:04 PM »
I forgot to mention,

Last night one of my sons came by with a friend who happens to be a bit of an electronics geek, well we talked for a while and then I told him about the bucking coil arrangement, which he understood right away, and then said that someone is trying to figure out how to get at the current, his response made me laugh, he said "there's an awful lot of cat in that attempt"

Sounds funny, forgive me but english is not my native language.
What would the expression "there's an awful lot of cat in that attempt" exactly indicate?
That it is a big effort that requires lots of patience to attempt that or that he considers it foolish to even try?

I mean every EE would just look at the zero inductance property of such coil and stop to think any further and maybe they are right, i am just trying to verify that.

I have been reading up a lot on transmission lines last night.
There is a lot of controversy about the fact to even handle a Tesla Coil like a transmission line. At least there you got high enough frequencies that shorten the wavelength down to a range that could well be inside the coil length.

I conclude that the Romero generator circuit is electrically way too short to have any nodes established, i would have a hard time understanding where these nodes should establish at specific points in the conductors.
Except we are dealing with something that falls outside of convential standing wave theory which would predict a wavelength of 2000 kilometers and therefore a distance of 2000 kilometers between the nodes.

But i remember that we had that same interpretation problem with Don Smith's and Kapandze`s devices. The wavelength and wirelength would not
be in the correct proportions.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2011, 04:10:51 AM »
@webby1, please continue again once you have this thought worked out.  I am intrigued.

M.

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2011, 04:53:27 PM »
The long wavelength that would not conveniently fit into the circuit length might actually only at first sight appear to be a hindrance for tapping the energy.
Read some studies on ELF wave transduction.

 

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