Author Topic: Pulse motor and timing (Read 18724 times)

joe · « **on:** April 10, 2005, 11:46:03 PM »

Hi! I am new on this site and i would like some info about how to hook more than one coil on my bedini SG. Have been worked on this project for more than a year now and i would to move ahead on to add more coils on my set up.

Do i need transistors on each coils and how do i calibrate ( let say) 3 or 4 coil so they can run (in harmony) I mean how do i get the right timing?

If anyone can help! Thanks

Joe

Sorry if i make mistake on my writing. My english vocabulary is kind of "poor"! I am a french canadian speaking.

Thaelin · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2005, 04:36:51 PM »

Well, I am basicly doing the same thing. I will have 4 magnets on each end of a teflon cyclendar
with 3 stationary coils. Due to the proxcimity of the magnets, the reed relays tend to be excited
at the wrong times. I am using a band of 4 small magnets around the center and then place the
reeds at the prescribed place to make them fire the 3055 transistors for "each" coil. I have found
that trying to put more than one on a transistor tends to heat it and I would prefer to generate as
little heat as possible.
I have a bench top model now that achevies about 1000 rpm and is able to run a small generator
I have no on board generator yet but that is still to come. I have been using about 200 ft of#30 wire
wrap wire around vandium cores and it seems to make a great pulser. These windings are shorted
together on each end to achieve a 10.4 ohm load which draws aprox 300 ma at running speed. On
startup, the pulse length is longer so the transistor is on longer and shows about 750 ma and then
gradually drops off as rmp comes up.
It is my final intention to have the magnet sets offset by 45 degrees as to be pulsing the rotor 24
times per revolution. This should make for over enough charge pulses to keep the second battery
prime.

I would imagine you will be using hall effect for picups but the same principal should work for you.

That is about all I can share at this time. Hope it helps out.

Sugra

rlm555339 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2005, 08:26:50 PM »

Joe,

If you have a different number of coils than you have magnets, you need to establish what exactly your firing order is. It would be a good idea to make two paper wheels. Put dots on the one paper wheel which represent the magnets and what would be their precise location. On the other paper wheel, cut holes where your coils will come. Then place the two paper wheels together with a pin in the middle for your axle, and slowly turn the one which represents your rotor. Depending on how many coils you have relative to the number of magnets, you will notice that the order of firing is not necessarily consecutive.

For instance, I have a rotor with 10 magnets and nine stator coils. When the rotor turns, it is "every other coil" that comes into alignment with magnet; not every consecutive coil. This will have a direct effect on your firing sequence. The paper wheels are a simple way to determine what your sequential firing order will be.

joe · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2005, 05:38:23 PM »

Sugra,

When you say you are using "reed relay" are you talking about the "reed swicth"? Because i have tried it but the voltage rate is low on that device. I think the higher voltage it can take is about 4 to 5 volts. Am i wrong? Or do you have to put a resistor in serie to it so it won't blow up? Cause on my machine i am using 12 volt you see.

Joe

joe · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2005, 06:00:07 PM »

Ronald,

Thanks for the info about the "paper wheel". I sure will experiment it on my new design machine.

Joe

dracozny · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2005, 09:38:32 PM »

i have used 12v reed switches before they are available from radioshack (asuming they still sell that stuff i bought mine a couple years back)

Thaelin · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2005, 12:29:58 AM »

What I use is a N.O. with a 680 ohm resistor. In use I think that might be not
quite enough. After a while the reed starts sticking closed and then I have to
get another one. Since I am using 6 of them, that gets out of hand quite quick.

I tested my Hall coils and found max of .25 volts so that means I have to use
smaller wire and more of it. Big enough now to get in the way. May just eat it
and use a small transistor to trigger the bigger one. More current used but a
heck of a lot less coil size.

I see in Bedeni's design he puts it right over the top of the pulse coil. I have
to say I would have timing issues with this. No way to tweak the power spot at
all. I want to make sure all pulsers are fireing at the same level so to produce
as much power as I can.

My motor runs on 24v in the end even tho I am testing it at 12v.
Thanks all. Another step closer.

sugra

Thaelin · « **Reply #7 on:** April 18, 2005, 10:26:03 AM »

While at work last nite I got to wondering about optics. On the machine I run it has a timing
bar that runs full length. On both ends it has a chopper wheel and two sensors to make sure
both ends are running. They are really nothing but an optical transistor and a led which could
be used in place of the hall coil. A small wheel with alternate black and reflective surface would
create the switching pulses. Being optic, it would have no problem operating in the magnetic
fields and leaving the extra coil space for the charging circuit.
Have a led on the output of the optic you could be sure it is working as well. Hope this is useful
to someone here. Think it will cure most of my ills for the moment. Chow

Sugra

Thaelin · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2005, 04:18:38 PM »

Just finished my first test of the optics and found that an NTE3032 will directly fire the
3055 and give about a 1 amp draw with fair light. Looks like the end to the reed relay
problem. Much easier to get to work and I have used an old compact disc with tape on
it to reflect the light. Not sure how big of a window to make just yet but experimentation
will tell. It sure could do with a bit of balance tho, call it shakey pete right now.

Sugra

zott · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2008, 07:05:22 AM »

I have just found this site and am having timing probs I think I just get the rotor spinning and lose a couple of nte 331 trns's every time .Am using 3- 5 wire coils against 6 ceram mags . I just get her up and 2 or more transistors superheat and stay closed I have burnt through 27 trans's and am in process of going heavier.

hdbservices · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2008, 12:27:24 AM »

Hello guys,

This guy, Doug Konzen seems to have alot of understanding about pulse motor/generators.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHpikCPKPiE

nightlife · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2008, 07:10:40 PM »

hdbservices, his motors are not shown operating with a load and he is not showing the amps used and the amps returning.

Another thing I see wrong with his as well as other Bedini motors is that the permanent magnets are not large enough, I when I say large I am referring to the surface area. Another problem I see is with the coils. The cores need to be rectangular and the windings need to be wrapped in the same shape. The surface of the magnets need to be at least 3 times the surface size of the coils core. The more larger the magnets surface area, the better. Then the surface area needs to be shaped to fit the wheel and the same goes for the cores surface.
The closer the coil to the magnet, the better.

Then the coil must be activated to repel the magnet just after the magnets center and then shut off at about half way from the end of the throw making sure that the throw has thru it far enough away from the core so the core doesn't attract the magnet that was thrown. The next magnet will be attracted to the core with the effect pulling to the center of the magnet. It will pass the center but then try to come back. That is why you must activate the coil just after the magnets center is passed to create the throwing affect.

Only the part of the throw that is powered is the energy used and the rest of the throw as well as the action is the energy gained. You will loose energy from the drag of the center and that is why it is very important to have the coils activated at the precise moment the center passes.

The next thing that must be done is to collect the back EMF off from the coil after it is shut off. This will help keep the coil cool as well as it will collect the energy that would other wise be lost. This adds to the efficiency of the motor. The rectifier power that is created as well as the back EFM power, can be rerouted back to the power source.

Just keep these things in mind when building a pulse motor and good luck to all of you.

Ren · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2008, 11:30:45 PM »

while most of your comments are fairly valid nightlife I dont agree with this one.

" Another thing I see wrong with his as well as other Bedini motors is that the permanent magnets are not large enough, I when I say large I am referring to the surface area. Another problem I see is with the coils. The cores need to be rectangular and the windings need to be wrapped in the same shape. The surface of the magnets need to be at least 3 times the surface size of the coils core. The more larger the magnets surface area, the better. Then the surface area needs to be shaped to fit the wheel and the same goes for the cores surface."

The magnets placed on a monopole wheel are there strictly as a timing mechanism. The larger the magnet the longer/stronger the pulse. While some may desire this in their particular configurations it isnt necessary in JB's monopole. Infact I have had better results with smaller magnets as they create a faster switching time. The magnet need only be big enough to trigger the transistor to fire.I cant speak in regards to Kozens work as I am not too familiar with it.

@ Zott. Im happy to offer suggestions if you can show/explain your configuration/schematic. Without it I am unsure of what may be burning up your transistors. It may be as simple as selecting a higher rated transistor, it may not. If you are using the SG circuit I would suggest getting one coil running smoothly and then adding the others.

nightlife · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2008, 12:01:37 AM »

Ren, I am not talking about the switching magnets, I am talking about the magnets on the wheel used in the atracting and or repelling affect of the wheel that makes it turn.

Ren · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2008, 12:16:14 AM »

@ nightlife. In a reed or hall operated/timed device the switching magnets may be different to the attraction/repulsion magnets. In the monopole and other similar configurations there is only one set of magnets and they perform both tasks. I just wanted to clear that up in relation to Bedini devices.

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Author Topic: Pulse motor and timing (Read 18724 times)

joe

Pulse motor and timing

Thaelin

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