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Author Topic: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.  (Read 11947 times)

Offline RunningBare

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Re: .
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2007, 09:58:49 AM »
I'll put in a little effort in the hope of helping some people

The problem with the newman motor concept is this...

for around 33% the battery is connected to the coil via the commutator, this obviously deflects the magnet, the commutator turns disconnecting the battery from the coil, at the point of disconnection there is massive back emf, the only problem is, assumming the positive terminal of the battery is connected to the commutator is that the back emf is a negative voltage, if the negative terminal was connected to the commutator the back emf would be a positive voltage, so as you can see in each case it is opposite the voltage needed to store a charge in the battery.

I'm not knocking people, it is fun to experiment and try these things, thats why I took the time and effort to build my own newman motor, I even had a go at the bedini schoolboy motor, they are both great experiments and fun to build.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: .
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2007, 09:58:49 AM »

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2007, 01:04:04 PM »
Just to give an example of bad accounting, take the "MEG"


Without the magnet the load gets very little power and the power reads high on the supply, as you add the magnet suddenly the load gets good power with very little increase on the supply, but what no one has done is to take into consideration the power that was being dissipated by the coil itself before the magnet was added, all the magnet did was to retransfer the dissipated energy in the coil to the load.

I want clean efficient energy but bad accounting is not going to get me it.

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2007, 02:25:39 PM »
My goal is not to discourage, it is to encourage people to find a workaround for "proven" scientific fact.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2007, 02:25:39 PM »
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Offline RunningBare

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This should perk some of you up a little
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 02:09:53 AM »
While bored of waiting to continue with my electrolysis experiments I decided to rewind the coil on my Newman motor replication, it now has 2490 turns of enameled wire taken from the secondary winding of a microwave transformer, approx 150 ohms DC resistance.

Last night I had two 12 volt lead acid gel batteries wired in series doing some electrolysis which I left over night, this afternoon I disconnected them and left them to stand for around 3 hours, I took a voltage measurement and it showed in series they had dropped to 14.48 volts, thats 7.24 volts per battery(definitely a discharged state for these batteries), left the meter on for another 30 minutes, the voltage did not vary from that figure.

I connected the now newly wound Newman motor to these batteries(series connection), I've just checked the voltage again(motor disconnected) after 2 hours, it is showing 18.5 volts, obviously there is nothing conclusive in this as I need to test the batteries under load, but first I'm going to leave the Newman motor connected until tomorrow.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2007, 02:55:57 AM »
Well done RB ! Keep the motor running on the batteries and
please let us know.
Many thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2007, 02:55:57 AM »
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Offline RunningBare

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2007, 04:53:19 PM »
Sorry guys, the Newman motor still did not do as advertised, this morning I measured the voltage on the batteries(no load) it had risen to 19.5 volts, I thought great, so I reattached the motor and left it another several hours, just did another voltage check(again no load) and it had fallen to 18.6 volts, so even with 2490 turns of wire it still does not do as advertised, my hopes were up for a while, but alas.

Offline tinu

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »
Sorry guys, the Newman motor still did not do as advertised, this morning I measured the voltage on the batteries(no load) it had risen to 19.5 volts, I thought great, so I reattached the motor and left it another several hours, just did another voltage check(again no load) and it had fallen to 18.6 volts, so even with 2490 turns of wire it still does not do as advertised, my hopes were up for a while, but alas.

Thanks for honesty and for your great efforts!

My experiments were all leading to the same conclusion but during your latest attempt/replication I really hoped that I?ve done something wrong.
It seems that the Newman motor (presumably) becomes efficient at several hundreds thousands turns which, I have to frankly say it, is for the time being well beyond my patience.

Have a nice day,
Tinu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »
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Offline RunningBare

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2007, 06:28:01 PM »
Thanks tinu, I do enjoy the replication experiments.

I charged up a 2 FARAD 20/24 volt capacitor earlier on and connected my Newman motor to it, it's been quite happily spinning for the last 30 minutes on the capacitors alone.

Offline tinu

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2007, 08:22:15 PM »
Thanks tinu, I do enjoy the replication experiments.

I charged up a 2 FARAD 20/24 volt capacitor earlier on and connected my Newman motor to it, it's been quite happily spinning for the last 30 minutes on the capacitors alone.

Wow!
2 Farads at 20V should keep it running for a long, long time. Depending on the overall power, it may run for days.
One version of mine was running for 7-8 minutes from a small 0.03F/9V. The idle power was around 2mW. If the capacitor was 2F at 9V it would theoretically run for 14days. ;)
(Of course this is not going to happen in practice due to higher power and also higher losses at high voltage and due to insufficient voltage at around 2-3V or so. But even so, the running time is impressive and it wouldn?t take more than a ?demo? conducted in front of someone not very accustomed with this kind of business to make the assistance believe that they?ve just met a real ?guru? of free energy? ;)

Tinu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2007, 08:22:15 PM »
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Offline zero

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2007, 10:54:00 PM »
If these are so efficient,  why not extend the drive shaft, and connect a mini generator
to them as well?  Either in magnets on a spinning disc with pickup coils nearby..  or
a typical generator.


 Feed the generated work back into the system if needed.   There still should
be plenty excess for collection.

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2007, 12:54:24 AM »
The most efficient method would be a secondary winding on the motor, the spinning magnets can cut the magnetic flux lines directly take the output to a bridge rectifier then feed it back to the primary coil, I've tried, it does not work, but others might be able to figure it.


If these are so efficient,  why not extend the drive shaft, and connect a mini generator
to them as well?  Either in magnets on a spinning disc with pickup coils nearby..  or
a typical generator.


 Feed the generated work back into the system if needed.   There still should
be plenty excess for collection.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2007, 12:54:24 AM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Revised topic, choose to ignore, the choice has "always" been yours.
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2007, 04:25:11 PM »
If these are so efficient,  why not extend the drive shaft, and connect a mini generator
to them as well?  Either in magnets on a spinning disc with pickup coils nearby..  or
a typical generator.


 Feed the generated work back into the system if needed.   There still should
be plenty excess for collection.


Hi,

They are not so efficient. In fact, they may be (and usually are) far less efficient that most of good-quality commercial electric motors. It?s just that some of their authors make you (or would like to make you) believe that they are efficient.

Take it this way: if you connect a small motor to a large battery, it is obvious that the large battery stores enough energy to keep the motor running and running and running.

Now, the reverse logic: if you take a motor and make it drawing very little power, it will run a long time even from a small battery. How is possible to make a motor draw very little power? By lowering the friction and other loses. That?s usually done by using very good bearings, by lowering also the air drag and by optimizing various other parameters (mechanical and electro-magnetic too). 

Anyway, any motor is drawing very little power when idle. There is no magic in it. (There is no free energy either.) Nature works this way. A large several kW motor may draw only several percents (tenths of watts) when running idle. The reason for not lowering this power even more is simply because some parts of the motor have to be bulky, to withstand the real power the motor was initially designed for. (That motor was not designed to run idle, to run just for nothing, but to produce mechanical power) Take the bearings, for instance. Of course you can replace them but having ones more efficient, they will (usually) be also more fragile and they will simply not resist to the rotor vibrations at several kW. If they are not more fragile, they will be for sure muuuch more expensive, and that?s why you buy what you buy. It?s the most viable alternative (from energetic and financial/commercial point of view).

Now, assume that here I came and that I replaced the bearings with tiny ones. And yes, the large rotor will slowly accelerate and yes, I can show you that the piece of huge motor is spinning with so low power and yes, I can make it running for months or for many years just from a car battery or less. Well, of course it does. But in reality it does nothing. It?s all just dust in the eyes.

The story then goes on:
Some say that the above ?motor? is itself producing more electricity, which can then be fed back into the same or into another battery. Then, why not make it run from capacitors and one simple proof would be more than enough. Silence, after this point?

Others say that it is not in fact producing more electricity but is producing more mechanical than ?normal?. Well, this is more subtle but as you say above, in this case by simply connecting a small generator to the shaft leads (?leads-out?, maybe?) to more electricity being produced that being consumed. So, we?re back to the first case above. Silence all around?

In short: so far I have absolutely no knowledge of at least one simple and decent proof that anything unusual happens along this line. Neither of a principle experiment to challenge the known science. But within the known science, find a way to feed mechanical energy into the rotor and the said motor (at least most types) will usually turn into a generator. (That?s another huge source of confusion among many, when they ?discover? that simple fact, but it would be a too long story to tell it here).

Anyway, this is about Newman.
Do I believe Newman is wrong? Not really.
I?ve come out with a reasonable explanation but I still have to experiment it to be sure.
(But this will eventually have to wait for another time to be discussed.)

Have a nice day,
Tinu

 

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