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Author Topic: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...  (Read 69638 times)

gn0stik

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 11:00:56 PM »
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DC2E , already have epoxy covering.

I think the B666BR rubber coated block magnet on this page http://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=11 would be better as it's shape would be easier to work with, also rubber would be easier to remove than the black epoxy (as long as there is no nickel covering underneath the rubber). I think that although conductivity has little to do with it, surface conductivity could hinder the process as it would hinder penetration of the current into the magnet, instead causing to arc around the surface.

This is an interesting conversation to read at this web site:

http://www.rexresearch.com/mra/2mra.htm

This was very interesting too...  Perhaps iron wire would be useful here???

Joel:  This morning before going to work I spent a little time and wound a 200 turn coil on the 3 inch long permanent magnet (alnico 8) and placed this coil inside of the larger coil (same as the coil I gave you). When this permanent magnet core coil is driven with my signal generator (.5 V output) at exactly 174.9 KHZ the output coil will light up a neon tube. If you get off this freq nothing will pass through the transformer for the permanent magnetic field cannot be overcome by the "feeble" input. Need some more investigation here. My intent is to drive the input coil at a freq that will cause a difference (beat) freq of 60 HZ between the input freq and the ferromagnetic natural resonance freq. More later.   ~  Norm
PS: with .5 V input I am getting out 60 V

This was very interesting. The 174.926 Hz freq being nailed down is of particular interest, of course, especially since the author made mention of the MRA in his descriptions. Their application is quite different of course. I was also particularly interested in the fact that adding more magnets of different configuration/type increased the freq by exactly one octave to 349.xxx. The freq is additive based on the number of magnets, but gives no regard to the strength of the magnet, which lends credence to JackH's findings.

I wish I had some equipment to test this. I'd be buying one of those magnets and some conductive epoxy on the way home, and working this out. I'd try pumping 8W @ 12V @ 174.926Hz on a square wave into that mag to see what happens.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2006, 11:00:56 PM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2006, 01:24:55 AM »
Very intersting topic !
Finally a very good idea, how to turn on / off a permanent magnet !

The easiest thing would be to use an iron wire and wind a big coil around
a cylindrical magnet with it. This iron coil would work like a iron core and
would get a magnet itsself from the flux of the permanent magnet.
Also it would
shortout the magnet flux from the magnet back to the magnet
in a loop.
Now imagine pulsing this iron coil with 180 Khz thus making this
coil core non-magnetic, and put a few copper coils around the
unit.. So if you switch on the 180 Khz burst, the copper coils
would get induction and if you switch off the 180 Khz burst,
the copper coils don?t get any induction.
This would get us a solid state free energy device, if the
power needed for the iron core coil 180 Khz burst would be less than the
output power of all the copper coils !
This way also nonconductive ferrite magnets could be used !

Maybe this is also the way the method of JackH is working ?

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 01:26:14 AM »
This is an interesting conversation to read at this web site:

http://www.rexresearch.com/mra/2mra.htm

This was very interesting too...  Perhaps iron wire would be useful here???

Joel:  This morning before going to work I spent a little time and wound a 200 turn coil on the 3 inch long permanent magnet (alnico 8) and placed this coil inside of the larger coil (same as the coil I gave you). When this permanent magnet core coil is driven with my signal generator (.5 V output) at exactly 174.9 KHZ the output coil will light up a neon tube. If you get off this freq nothing will pass through the transformer for the permanent magnetic field cannot be overcome by the "feeble" input. Need some more investigation here. My intent is to drive the input coil at a freq that will cause a difference (beat) freq of 60 HZ between the input freq and the ferromagnetic natural resonance freq. More later.   ~  Norm
PS: with .5 V input I am getting out 60 V

Hi Liberty, could you please describe in detail, what you have done
there ? Any pics or schematics diagrams ?
Many thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 01:26:14 AM »
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gn0stik

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 07:16:39 AM »
Stefan, Liberty should have put that in quotes. It wasn't him that ran that experiment, It's a quote from the link he put in his post. I would recommend reading the whole page, it's very interesting.

Your idea for pulsing a coil by turning on/off a magnet is exactly what I was thinking. When you turn off the current and hence turn the magnet back on, the flux would cause induction, which would cause current flow, for energy reclamation. This could be done in addition to turning a rotor. The possiblities are practically endless. I wish I had access to a freq. gen.

Tao, are you planning on running more experiments on this?

Offline Liberty

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2006, 07:22:12 AM »
This is an interesting conversation to read at this web site:

http://www.rexresearch.com/mra/2mra.htm

This was very interesting too...  Perhaps iron wire would be useful here???

Joel:  This morning before going to work I spent a little time and wound a 200 turn coil on the 3 inch long permanent magnet (alnico 8) and placed this coil inside of the larger coil (same as the coil I gave you). When this permanent magnet core coil is driven with my signal generator (.5 V output) at exactly 174.9 KHZ the output coil will light up a neon tube. If you get off this freq nothing will pass through the transformer for the permanent magnetic field cannot be overcome by the "feeble" input. Need some more investigation here. My intent is to drive the input coil at a freq that will cause a difference (beat) freq of 60 HZ between the input freq and the ferromagnetic natural resonance freq. More later.   ~  Norm
PS: with .5 V input I am getting out 60 V

Hi Liberty, could you please describe in detail, what you have done
there ? Any pics or schematics diagrams ?
Many thanks.

Hi Hartiberlin,

I was just pointing out a discussion between Joel and Norm on a web page that I found where they are trying to derive power from a magnet using a beat frequency of around 174.94 KHZ.  I thought that your readers would find it interesting to read about, because it seemed to add to the discussion topic with information about some tests that some guys were doing using two coils and a magnet with a beat frequency.
Sorry no schematics.  But there is a pretty good discussion of what they were doing with a magnet and dual coil setup using 174.94 KHZ to use as a beat freq. with the magnetic field.  It is not clear to me whether the voltage was a result of a transformer stepping up the input frequency or whether it was actually an output voltage from the magnetic field beat together with the magnetic frequency.  They talked as if it were an output voltage as a result of using the beat frequency on the magnet.  

That is about all I know to pass on.  It is a pretty long read, but some of it is interesting to read about the tests using 175KHZ to 180KHZ with a magnetic field.

Liberty

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2006, 07:22:12 AM »
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Offline IcyBlue

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2006, 08:55:41 AM »
I would recommend reading the whole page, it's very interesting.
I did this some time ago. Interesting indeed, but in the end the O/U has been nailed down to a flawed measurement and power calculation.

The 17x kHz are probably just a coincidence that results from the L/C values of the used transducer and coil. Before drawing any conclusions one must know the permeability of the used magnet. Then you can calculate the resonant frequency of the circuit. If this values are at hand, and a dramatic mismatch remains between the f0 in magnetized and unmagnetized state that can not be explained by conventional physics, it is worth to figure out why.

gn0stik

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2006, 05:00:14 PM »
I would recommend reading the whole page, it's very interesting.
I did this some time ago. Interesting indeed, but in the end the O/U has been nailed down to a flawed measurement and power calculation.

The 17x kHz are probably just a coincidence that results from the L/C values of the used transducer and coil. Before drawing any conclusions one must know the permeability of the used magnet. Then you can calculate the resonant frequency of the circuit. If this values are at hand, and a dramatic mismatch remains between the f0 in magnetized and unmagnetized state that can not be explained by conventional physics, it is worth to figure out why.


I agree the effect in and of itself is very important, in and of itself regardless of OU. However, even if in their experiments, they did not acheive OU, there are other ways the on/off effect can be used. Not to mention, they were seeing other effects as well, lasting weight loss, etc. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2006, 05:00:14 PM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2006, 12:51:41 PM »
    OK all, just purchased a good signal gen as I had a need anyhow. I coudn't get any conductive epoxy tho. My reasoning here was that if I use a piece of copper flashing on each side, it would replicate what the conductive epoxy would do anyhow. Not to be the case I guess. No matter what frequency square sawtooth or sine up to 2 mhz I used the floating arm above the target magnet stayed the same.
   Considering the discussion I came up with the idea that 12v at 8 watts would need a transistor in the line and use the gen to turn it on and off. Short of winding a coil that could draw the said amount of power, I cant see any other way to retard the magnetic force.
   I will still try for using conductive epoxy yet. Just have to find out where it can be found.

sugra

Offline penguin hood

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2006, 12:38:21 PM »
Why electrically conductive epoxy?
Then, the magnet inside two metalic parallel plates (inside a capacitor) is not the same effect?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2006, 12:38:21 PM »
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Offline mitch

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2006, 09:26:37 PM »
This thought came to me (lonely thing it is)...

Rather than glue on wires with conducting adhesive, has anyone attempted to use a plated Neo magnet, and grind off the plating between the ends where wires are soldered onto the plating?

Ah! Another thought (where there's one, there's ususally more)

If the magnetic flux cancellation is induced by capacitive coupling, then a flat disk magnet, with the side plating ground off, would show less coupling energy to induce the effect than a long narrow magnet.

I am curious if any can measure the A.C. current involved when coupled, which would show a dip/peak when the frequency sweeps into and out of the coupling frequencies.

This could essentially be a magnetic domain resonance, like an NMR coupling, but with magnetic domains rather than atomic nuclei.  The coupling frequency matches the domain flipping time.  If the effect is domain related then fine-grained versed course grained ferrous domain material may show different resonant frequencies.

The magnet material volume would be another good bit of data to compare in a series of tests, to see if it is realted proportionaly somehow to volume.


Cheers,
DonEMitchell
http://groupKOS.com

gn0stik

  • Guest
Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2006, 09:52:32 PM »

...*snip* and grind off the plating between the ends where wires are soldered onto the plating? *snip*


You cannot solder a neomag without damaging it's strength. direct heat = bad

all else looks interesting.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2006, 09:52:32 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2006, 11:49:17 PM »
I think using an iron wire coil around a magnet would be the easiest thing as you could use
very fine isolated garden wire, so the current would be low and just try to
toggle on/off the magnetic properties in this core-coil !
This way also the magnet will not be weakened !

Offline Jdo300

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2006, 02:40:11 AM »
Hi Tao,

This topic is immensely interesting and I would like to do a thorough investigation of the idea. Right now, I am working at my university in the physics department but as an Engineering student, I have access to pretty much whatever I need to do any testing so I want to setup a thorough experiment to prove once and for all if this does work. I want to start with ferrite magnets since the person said they worked well, but I'm trying to understand how to best attach the wires to the magnet. Do I simply touch the tips of the wire to the sides or is the conductive epoxy necessary to make a decent electrical connection... and as one person already mentioned, I wonder how this will effect ceramic magnets since they are already non-conductive.

Is there any way I could get in contact with the original person to ask him about this?

God Bless,
Jason O

P.S. I?ll also try Stefan?s idea with the iron wire also.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2006, 02:51:47 AM »
Hi Jason,
ceramic magnets will probably not work as they are
nonconductive.
I also don?t think, that glueing conductive epoxy plates will
have any effect on the magnet when being driven by about 180 Khz,
as it would be, like placing the magnet into a capacitor...
Okay, maybe, if you apply 5000 Volts AC peak to peak, but not
at 12 Volts AC peak to peak.....

I guess it really needs a current through a metal,so only
conductive iron based magnets like Cobalt-Nickel-Iron magnets
will work or also only steel magnets which have not a very
big coercitive force ( low Hc)...
So I guess it would be much easier to try it first with
an iron coil around a magnet, as you don?t need to change
the magnet and can see, how the about 180 Khz AC current reacts to the magnetic
properties of the iron wire.

Also you will discover probably, that you can conduct
heat from the ohmic currentheating of the iron wires into the direction of your magnet field.

This I had discovered last year, when I played shortly with an iron wire coil.
As the magnet field from the permanent magnet is "sucked" into the iron coil,
the heat generated by the ohmic heating of the iron wire is flowing
into the direction the magnetic field from the permanent magnet goes through the coil.
So the heat is maximum there, where the most flux is squeezed in the iron coil...

Also, maybe you can confirm, that iron wire coils don?t have much
Back EMF when driven with pulse waveforms.

There are still many new discoveries to make with iron coils.

Offline kadora

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Re: Permanent Magnet: ON/OFF Mechanism...
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2006, 12:03:03 PM »
Hi

I totaly agree with Hartiberlin - behaviour of coil
wound with iron wire is strange .
For example I produced a selenoid wound by iron wire
and this selenoid did not work . It surprised me.
Does somebody a theory why it is not working?

thanks

 

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