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Author Topic: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!  (Read 9779 times)

Offline blueplanet

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Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« on: July 04, 2011, 07:35:31 AM »
Folks, I have been doing a homopolar experiment for some months, but so far, with very little achievement. My experiment is based on the following setup  (see the attached diagram).  I was expecting a pure DC output, which was what other experimentalists got, but I ended with a AC output in addition to the DC.  The AC output voltage is much higher than the DC. The AC output is measurable by a digital meter or a analog meter.

Right now, I am not sure if the AC came from the the drill. Apart from the drill, I do not have any other magnetic interference in my place. Could anyone tell me how to fix the problem?

Thank you in advance.

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Offline neptune

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 02:04:57 PM »
Your problem may not be a problem , but a blessing . Remember that you can feed AC into a transformer , and step up the voltage . You are not the first to get AC from a homopolar . Go toWWW.free-energy-info.co.uk This is a book by Partick j Kelly . See chapter 13 page 6 . a description of a homopolar generator by Peter Lindemann et al .

Offline neptune

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 02:38:25 PM »
OK .now some questions of my own . According to Wickipedia , and other sources , a homopolar using a permanent magnet or magnets , works just as well if the magnets are fixed to and rotate with the disc . If this is true , then there can be no posibility of lenz law lugging , so the biggest losses are to brush friction . Peter Lindeman talks about 1000 amps ! So if we are getting only 1 volt , that is 1 Kw . Devide that by 10 to be on the safe side , and this device still has to be WAY overunity . Some sources say a copper disc , and some just a conducting disc . So best to use copper to be safe . Does anyone have a link to other sources of info on Lindemanns machine , other than Patrick Kelly`s book ?

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 02:38:25 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 04:24:49 AM »
OK .now some questions of my own . According to Wickipedia , and other sources , a homopolar using a permanent magnet or magnets , works just as well if the magnets are fixed to and rotate with the disc . If this is true , then there can be no posibility of lenz law lugging , so the biggest losses are to brush friction.

When the magnet is stationary, then the rotating disc/circuit will cut the flux.  When the magnet/disc is both rotating together, then the stationary external circuit will cut the flux (assuming the field rotates with the magnet).  If the field doesn't rotate with the magnet, then the rotating disc/circuit will cut the flux of the stationary field.  Regardless of what part of the circuit cuts the flux (rotating or stationary circuit), lenz will still be there.  In order to avoid lenz in a HPG/HPM, we need to have a setup where there is no relative motion between the disc and external circuit.  An open external circuit may be another option to avoid lenz.

GB
 

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 08:35:26 AM »
Lenz law is useless in the homopolar case. The eddy current is always there, but this eddy current is not due to the change of flux in time domain.

 

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 08:35:26 AM »
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Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 02:40:52 PM »
The magnetic field does not rotate with the magnet.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 12:16:40 AM »
OK .now some questions of my own . According to Wickipedia , and other sources , a homopolar using a permanent magnet or magnets , works just as well if the magnets are fixed to and rotate with the disc . If this is true , then there can be no posibility of lenz law lugging , so the biggest losses are to brush friction . Peter Lindeman talks about 1000 amps ! So if we are getting only 1 volt , that is 1 Kw . Devide that by 10 to be on the safe side , and this device still has to be WAY overunity . Some sources say a copper disc , and some just a conducting disc . So best to use copper to be safe . Does anyone have a link to other sources of info on Lindemanns machine , other than Patrick Kelly`s book ?
A rolling "brush" should fix this friction problem (A steel ball bearing should do). Plenty of contact all the time (way better than brushes), and almost no friction.

Vidar

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 12:16:40 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 10:39:39 AM »
When the magnet is stationary, then the rotating disc/circuit will cut the flux.  When the magnet/disc is both rotating together, then the stationary external circuit will cut the flux (assuming the field rotates with the magnet).  If the field doesn't rotate with the magnet, then the rotating disc/circuit will cut the flux of the stationary field.  Regardless of what part of the circuit cuts the flux (rotating or stationary circuit), lenz will still be there.  In order to avoid lenz in a HPG/HPM, we need to have a setup where there is no relative motion between the disc and external circuit.  An open external circuit may be another option to avoid lenz.

GB

What if external circuit is rotating along with the disc and magnet ? Would it work ?
Or maybe the other way is make it all stationary but force electrons to move inside copper disc ?

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 04:15:04 PM »
What if external circuit is rotating along with the disc and magnet ? Would it work ?

why not?

Quote
Or maybe the other way is make it all stationary but force electrons to move inside copper disc ?

what for?
movement of electrons = current

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 04:15:04 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 04:48:32 PM »
why not?

what for?
movement of electrons = current

I'm just trying to grasp why homopolar generator generate large current but small voltage. Here lies the mystery and understanding is important to me.

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
First,
I am being specific when I said that a magnetic field
will NOT turn with the magnet, in the case of a permanent magnet !

Spin one in a drill and see !
(Or see YouTube trials...)

Forest, you, and I asked this question,
but was only pondered on this forum.

Reference:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8516.0

Sadly, I positively believe that multiple load inductors
could flourish without the loss of brushes in the fist place.

Heck, even the reverse induction coil method should do !

a unilateral layout of primary current to outermost exposed bridges around the edge
should provide the best recovery of the low voltage / high current available.

We hate the large current into a engine's start motor,
but do not see the equal recovery in reverse...
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 10:41:13 AM by CompuTutor »

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 12:11:01 PM »
The point is: if large current means large amount of electrons then how they are generated inside metalic disk ? if large current means fast electrons (fast rate of change of charge per second) while electrons amount is tiny (free electrons in metal) then how we moved them so fast ?
if the voltage is so low then maybe we converted voltage into amperage inside disk ?
do you have any workable homopolar generator ?

I'd like to know how output voltage and current is related to strength of permanemt magnet. Simply we need to test it with ferrite magnet and neodymium one.
Does strength of magnetic field rise voltage or only current ?

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2011, 09:20:18 AM »
I think most of the questions posted in this thread can be answered with the help of Lorentz force equation.

Neither Lorentz force equation nor our experimental results suggest that magnetic flux change is a prerequisite for homopolar induction.

I suspect that there is a link between this Lorentz force and the centrifugal force ( F=mv^2/r).

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 09:32:03 AM »
Remember, the earth itself is a spinning magnet. The way how it spins is not very different from that of a homopolar device. If the law of relativity is correct, we wouldn't be able to measure anything due to this gigantic homopolar effect.

Offline forest

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Re: Need some help for my homopolar experiment!
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 09:54:06 AM »
Remember, the earth itself is a spinning magnet. The way how it spins is not very different from that of a homopolar device. If the law of relativity is correct, we wouldn't be able to measure anything due to this gigantic homopolar effect.

We are able to measure weak telluric currents.I believe it can be used.

 

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