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## Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: andrea on July 04, 2011, 12:11:22 AM

Title: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: andrea on July 04, 2011, 12:11:22 AM
Hello, look at this video

I've found it interesting. Do you think is it a fake? I've not found this "lazarev' circular" in the web.

Greetings, andrea
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: maw2432 on July 04, 2011, 01:05:48 AM
Looks cool..  No idea how it works.
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: blueplanet on July 04, 2011, 01:31:38 PM
If there is no temperature difference between top (i.e. condensation part) and bottom (i.e. evaporation part), then it is a fake.

Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 04, 2011, 09:50:49 PM
If there is no temperature difference between top (i.e. condensation part) and bottom (i.e. evaporation part), then it is a fake.

The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action)

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: andrea on July 05, 2011, 03:52:33 PM
The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action)

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

Yes, this could solve the question. But the tube doesn't seem so thin, isn't it? A youtube user's citation, in that video, address to the property of salted water mixed with pure water explained (for example) in the book Etidorhpa. But it seems to me that this is an example of capillary action.
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: blueplanet on July 06, 2011, 03:33:58 AM
Please post experimental evidence of your own that proves this idea is working.

We would be very grateful if you can demonstrate that this system is running continuously for at least one day.

The whole world will be better off if you can harness slightly more than zero watts from this system.

We don't want just empty talk.

The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action)

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: tinu on July 06, 2011, 04:44:29 PM
...
as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

I have a problem with that. The liquid does not drip out unless energy is expended for that.

@ all,

I see a bottom layer of liquid then an empty space filled of course with some gas (probably a mixture of air and vapors) then at an arbitrary height a capillary layer is mechanically fixed then finally on top of which there is another layer of liquid. One end of the pipe lies in the bottom layer of liquid.
Is this correct?
I hope not, because if it is, the device should obviously work as advertised. The top layer of liquid exerts some pressure (mass x g / surface) on the gas in-between the liquid layers. The gas passes the pressure in the bottom layer of liquid and because no other freedoms exist in the device, the liquid goes up the pipe. Yup, it doesnâ€™t seem necessary the pipe be capillary; any pipe will do it.

Why the capillary layer? Two folds: to hold the liquid in place (to prevent it from falling down but slowly dripping) while passing the pressure to the gas.
IMHO the device is ingenious but still the full credits shall go to Heron of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heron%27s_fountain) â€“ itâ€™s the same device and it is his invention, really.  Nevertheless, a large quantity of liquid falls from top layer to the bottom layer while a smaller quantity is pumped a bit higher or, if used as waterworks, the device works for a wile until all liquid slowly drains to the bottom. Then, after itâ€™s initial energy (potential gravitational energy of the top layer of liquid) has been consumed, it needs â€œrefuelingâ€. ;)

Did I see something wrong?

Best regards,
Tinu
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 06, 2015, 03:16:08 PM
while the device does resemble Heron's Fountain,
what I found, is the source of the information, describes a quite different concept.

here's the read for those interested.

Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: Floor on March 07, 2015, 11:29:52 PM
Observation 1: The tube looks to be too large in diameter for capillarity to occur

Observation 2: There is capillarity in the wood.  This combined with the viscosity
of the fluid will prevent air from penetrating from below the wood to above it.

Observation 3: Gravity and capillarity are pulling the upper water through the wood, increasing the
volume of water in the lower level.  This in turn is increasing the air pressure in the lower level.

Guess: This increase in air pressure in the lower level is pushing the fluid up the tube.

Test: If the wooden disc were perforated by a second tube, the top end of which
would be well above the upper water level (a snorkel),  and the lower end terminating
well above the lower water level.  This would allow equalization of the air pressure between
above the wood and below the wood. If the device continues to function, under these condition,
that would be interesting.

cheers
floor
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 12, 2015, 12:55:41 AM
ok, after reading the book in it's entirety (great read by the way)

it seems the device is described in detail, and even replicated in the text by those discussing it.

According to the literature, It is the effects of the difference in specific gravity between two liquids.
those referenced in the book were fresh water, with salt water poured on top.

The layer dividing the two is not necessary, as it was used in the book to simulate "real earth" conditions,
and the experiment was performed again, without using the layer inbetween.

According to the book, the heavier salt water pushes the fresh water up the tube, and the effect continues until salt water comes out of the tube at the top, then it stops, as the system balances itself out.

I have not yet experimented along these lines myself, it seems logical, but the book is a rather eccentric science fiction novel, that combines science, technology, religion, theology, and a lot of theories in which modern humanity does not subscribe.

Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: Low-Q on March 16, 2015, 09:55:18 PM
The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action)

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.
Wouldn't the capillary effect also apply to the dripping tip of the pipe too - preventing the water to escape?

Vidar
Title: Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
Post by: sm0ky2 on March 16, 2015, 11:42:32 PM
Wouldn't the capillary effect also apply to the dripping tip of the pipe too - preventing the water to escape?

Vidar

Low-Q - in most situations you are right. For that reason, I do not think what is shown in the video will work with water. That may be why he used gasoline......

What is interesting, however, is that his description of the effect, does not concern capillary action at all.
The effect he references ( in the book Etidorpha) explains an effect of the specific gravity of liquids.
And this effect can be verified by experiment. simply place 2 liquids at different heights, and of different specific gravity, the "heavier" one above the lower one, and a differential pressure occurs. If a pathway exists, the heavier liquid has enough potential energy from gravity, to lift the "lighter" liquid to a height, even above that of the heavier liquid.

This effect occurs, both through a capillary, or through a much larger tube.

The guy in the video, describes the capillary, as providing a return path for the liquid, but what I did NOT see, was two liquids of different specific gravity, as would be required for this description to fit.  It seemed, to me, that the entire mass of both upper liquid and lower liquid, were the same gasoline.

Therefore (unless there is hoaxing involved), Either the size of capillary for gasoline, must be much larger than water would act through...
OR it is an effect of Air Pressure, as one person above suggested.

It is my understanding that capillary action is a function of viscosity/surface tension/cohesion/adhesion, and NOT specific gravity, as explained by the videos author.