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### Author Topic: Water and gravity: look at this video  (Read 23705 times)

#### andrea

• Newbie
• Posts: 47
##### Water and gravity: look at this video
« on: July 04, 2011, 12:11:22 AM »
Hello, look at this video

I've found it interesting. Do you think is it a fake? I've not found this "lazarev' circular" in the web.

Greetings, andrea

#### maw2432

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 338
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 01:05:48 AM »
Looks cool..  No idea how it works.

#### blueplanet

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 414
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2011, 01:31:38 PM »
If there is no temperature difference between top (i.e. condensation part) and bottom (i.e. evaporation part), then it is a fake.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2011, 09:50:49 PM »
If there is no temperature difference between top (i.e. condensation part) and bottom (i.e. evaporation part), then it is a fake.

The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

#### andrea

• Newbie
• Posts: 47
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 03:52:33 PM »
The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

Yes, this could solve the question. But the tube doesn't seem so thin, isn't it? A youtube user's citation, in that video, address to the property of salted water mixed with pure water explained (for example) in the book Etidorhpa. But it seems to me that this is an example of capillary action.

#### blueplanet

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 414
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2011, 03:33:58 AM »
Please post experimental evidence of your own that proves this idea is working.

We would be very grateful if you can demonstrate that this system is running continuously for at least one day.

The whole world will be better off if you can harness slightly more than zero watts from this system.

We don't want just empty talk.

The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

#### tinu

• Hero Member
• Posts: 630
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2011, 04:44:29 PM »
...
as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.

I have a problem with that. The liquid does not drip out unless energy is expended for that.

@ all,

I see a bottom layer of liquid then an empty space filled of course with some gas (probably a mixture of air and vapors) then at an arbitrary height a capillary layer is mechanically fixed then finally on top of which there is another layer of liquid. One end of the pipe lies in the bottom layer of liquid.
Is this correct?
I hope not, because if it is, the device should obviously work as advertised. The top layer of liquid exerts some pressure (mass x g / surface) on the gas in-between the liquid layers. The gas passes the pressure in the bottom layer of liquid and because no other freedoms exist in the device, the liquid goes up the pipe. Yup, it doesnâ€™t seem necessary the pipe be capillary; any pipe will do it.

Why the capillary layer? Two folds: to hold the liquid in place (to prevent it from falling down but slowly dripping) while passing the pressure to the gas.
IMHO the device is ingenious but still the full credits shall go to Heron of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heron%27s_fountain) â€“ itâ€™s the same device and it is his invention, really.  Nevertheless, a large quantity of liquid falls from top layer to the bottom layer while a smaller quantity is pumped a bit higher or, if used as waterworks, the device works for a wile until all liquid slowly drains to the bottom. Then, after itâ€™s initial energy (potential gravitational energy of the top layer of liquid) has been consumed, it needs â€œrefuelingâ€.

Did I see something wrong?

Best regards,
Tinu

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 03:16:08 PM »
while the device does resemble Heron's Fountain,
what I found, is the source of the information, describes a quite different concept.

here's the read for those interested.

#### Floor

• Guest
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 11:29:52 PM »
Observation 1: The tube looks to be too large in diameter for capillarity to occur

Observation 2: There is capillarity in the wood.  This combined with the viscosity
of the fluid will prevent air from penetrating from below the wood to above it.

Observation 3: Gravity and capillarity are pulling the upper water through the wood, increasing the
volume of water in the lower level.  This in turn is increasing the air pressure in the lower level.

Guess: This increase in air pressure in the lower level is pushing the fluid up the tube.

Test: If the wooden disc were perforated by a second tube, the top end of which
would be well above the upper water level (a snorkel),  and the lower end terminating
well above the lower water level.  This would allow equalization of the air pressure between
above the wood and below the wood. If the device continues to function, under these condition,
that would be interesting.

cheers
floor

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2015, 12:55:41 AM »
ok, after reading the book in it's entirety (great read by the way)

it seems the device is described in detail, and even replicated in the text by those discussing it.

According to the literature, It is the effects of the difference in specific gravity between two liquids.
those referenced in the book were fresh water, with salt water poured on top.

The layer dividing the two is not necessary, as it was used in the book to simulate "real earth" conditions,
and the experiment was performed again, without using the layer inbetween.

According to the book, the heavier salt water pushes the fresh water up the tube, and the effect continues until salt water comes out of the tube at the top, then it stops, as the system balances itself out.

I have not yet experimented along these lines myself, it seems logical, but the book is a rather eccentric science fiction novel, that combines science, technology, religion, theology, and a lot of theories in which modern humanity does not subscribe.

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 09:55:18 PM »
The cappilary effect does not require an imbalance of temperature.
the evaporation and condensation cycle plays no part in this.

see here for a detailed explaination and mathematics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capillary_action

this can be used to gain energy from the rising water, but to do this of great magnitude,.. you would need a 3 acre field covered with hundreds of thousands of tiny pipes, each rising an inch or two, then another layer repeated above, and stack them up to a substantial height, and a volume of water that could actually perform work.

there doesnt seem to be a maximum height, because altitude doesnt prevent the effect.

it works at sea level and even inside a submarine, it works on top of a mountain, or on a plane, or even out in space.
theres no power involved, its like water spreading across the surface of a table.
Its just a matter of the diameter of the pipe, compared to the fluidity of the liquid.
a thick oil can be made to capilate a wider pipe

as long as the pipe is shorter than the maximum liquid column that pipe can support with that liquid.. then it can drip out into a higher reservoire, and gain potential energy in the system.
Wouldn't the capillary effect also apply to the dripping tip of the pipe too - preventing the water to escape?

Vidar

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 11:42:32 PM »
Wouldn't the capillary effect also apply to the dripping tip of the pipe too - preventing the water to escape?

Vidar

Low-Q - in most situations you are right. For that reason, I do not think what is shown in the video will work with water. That may be why he used gasoline......

What is interesting, however, is that his description of the effect, does not concern capillary action at all.
The effect he references ( in the book Etidorpha) explains an effect of the specific gravity of liquids.
And this effect can be verified by experiment. simply place 2 liquids at different heights, and of different specific gravity, the "heavier" one above the lower one, and a differential pressure occurs. If a pathway exists, the heavier liquid has enough potential energy from gravity, to lift the "lighter" liquid to a height, even above that of the heavier liquid.

This effect occurs, both through a capillary, or through a much larger tube.

The guy in the video, describes the capillary, as providing a return path for the liquid, but what I did NOT see, was two liquids of different specific gravity, as would be required for this description to fit.  It seemed, to me, that the entire mass of both upper liquid and lower liquid, were the same gasoline.

Therefore (unless there is hoaxing involved), Either the size of capillary for gasoline, must be much larger than water would act through...
OR it is an effect of Air Pressure, as one person above suggested.

It is my understanding that capillary action is a function of viscosity/surface tension/cohesion/adhesion, and NOT specific gravity, as explained by the videos author.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 12:23:47 AM »
After years of contemplation and study of several of my own devices and those of others:

I have come to two conclusions:

1) The operating principal is governed by the pressure (yes caused by the specific gravity of each fluid (gas or liquid or combination, as defined by Archimedean displacement).
1 fluid displacing the other, while subsequently increasing the molar count variable,
Resulting in a higher pressure below. Causing the water to be ejected above.
Even at a greater starting height.

2) There is a short and long version of the Etidorpha text.
And the long version goes into much greater detail concerning this device.

One of the purposes of the specific gravity layer and/or the substrate layer is to suffice as a filtration system, to prevent the exchange of the compressing fluid.
additionally there is a second substrate layer above the working chamber
(Being the chamber with the stored gravitational potential energy)

A complete scientific analysis was performed, the result of which accounts for 100% of the potential energy, the difference on energy owing to the drop in fluid level of the upper volume. This drop (across a relatively larger surface area) is equal to the e=mgh of the volume of water which transitions upwards.

Interestingly enough, this mathematical analysis does not account for an anomalous energy quotient.

That being contained in the momentum of the falling fluid.
Allowing for the maximum resolution of e = 2e (?)

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 12:42:02 AM »
To be clear, the upper chamber which is being dripped into:
Shares an open air volume with the chamber at the bottom.
The pressure equivalent simulating a proportionally smaller “atmospheric pressure” measurement.
in this way the compressing fluid acts as a spring.
As pressure builds up from displacement, the fluid is displaced.
The substrate keeps the compressible fluid (being less dense) from passing into the working chamber.
and the same for the compressible fluid in the working chamber itself.

As pressure builds up inside the lower chamber, it pushes on the entire surface area of the more dense fluid. Within the tube going up, the pressure only exerts on the small surface area of the tube.
This is where pressure and gravity differ.
Whereas gravity pulls equally on all of the mass of the fluid anywhere in the system.

In a single fluid system, all pressure is equal and there is no flow.

With 2 fluids of different specific gravity, one will always displace the other.
Add a dynamic change in pressure,
Now you have a flow. Much like what occurs inside mountains or elevated lands where we see a ‘natural spring’ pumping water out above ground.

In the natural case, and in most replicated devices, the compressible fluid is air.
And water is used as the heavier fluid. But this does not really matter.

The minute losses in these systems do not account for the gravitational momentum.
The “drop” in height, which subsequently also = mgh.

So you see, if we place a pelton wheel in the lower chamber to take the momentum from the falling water,
Archimedean displacement still occurs.

And we have =2e

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3948
##### Re: Water and gravity: look at this video
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2022, 11:16:08 AM »
There are many replications of pressure based ‘heron’s fountain’ type devices
Physics classes do an excellent job of describing the energy in the system.

Now, combine this effect with a mechanism to extract the kinetic energy
from the water’s momentum.

Example:

https://youtu.be/-KtFZMN7_Bw

Conclusion: maximum ideal case output is = 2e

This appears to be a mathematically sound model of overunity,
based on the two very different aspects of gravity.
Acceleration and Displacement