If someone comes here looking for "free energy" what do they get? I can go down the street and get a Fresnel lens from and old t.v. my neighbor threw out but been there done that. i could build a Joe Cell and pretend that it will help my gas mileage among other things here and there to supplement and exploit existing energy technologies to at most become a thrifty energy miser. So a working Bessler wheel or the like far exceeds anything posted in this forum and/or others because that promise is the fuel-less shaft that turns and not just some kind of add on to something else.How can anyone pretend that something so significant should be treated with the same respect as this whole ball of wax? There is a good nature here...I am not saying that the heart is not in the right place.I am just saying that there is no comparison on Earth to Bessler's alleged (however well documented and proven to me me anyway) Perpetual Mobile.I am his biggest fan and perhaps the person on this Earth that if he were alive i could ask him a few questions that he would be thrilled to answer.For those who don't believe that P.M. is even possible let me now give you some information that doesn't quite prove the possibility but may point you in the right direction. Man creates .Human achievement has only been limited by belief and time itself.What is impossible one day is possible the next.It doesn't matter how many laws scientists come up with to make a name for themselves...there is no law in the universe...it is not even guaranteed to exist,much less abide by laws.All the made up scientific words are just that.The information,just like the money and gold is coveted by the rich.Enter Johann Earnst Elias Bessler , a man who discovered a jewel which he thought and most of us agree was more sought after than gold and he tried to sell it as such.But the world mocked him and laughed at his accomplishment and thought him a fraud among other things.There are lots of lessons to learn from Bessler's story and his life.His machine remains to this day a subject of controversy.One point of Bessler's  is that evil and greed have kept his machine unknown.I have taken it upon myself to give a message to the world in this case.Bessler was and honest Christian man meaning that he marveled at the world and all it's wonder's and beauty and he had something/someone to thank for it,namely God.All things under the Sun,to him,were created by God.And so he attributed his achievement to God.I am not trying to convert anyone  or anything like that as I myself am on the fence at times about such things.What i am trying to do is to explain that it doesn't hurt a thing to believe this man or his claims or even to take the same to be your own.I did it and now I believe that because i did I may be the closest person to finding out how the machine actually operated.As it stands now,if my views are correct,it had nothing to do with thermodynamics in that Bessler simply built a machine based on known mechanical principles that maintained an imbalance in motion.I have a very clear idea of how that can be achieved. But that's not important and that's not the point either. It has broken my heart to be received in a way much like Bessler himself was in life,on these boards.We are looking for answers.But if there are no answers then why do we look? Bessler was a man,unlike some think,that did not let his creation die with him. I may be on the very brink of it myself or it may be one of you...but I know that someone will discover it again.The question remains then if Bessler was correct in saying that his invention has been,like all truth possibly,raged against and hated by "some" from the very beginning.If i had a running wheel and attributed it to Bessler and God would any of you have second thoughts about God?Perhaps now I have touched on what this is really all about to me,and Bessler's true concern also.I am taking things at my own pace and since i am no longer a member at Besslerwheel.com (booted) my nerves have calmed a bit.Please don't take this as self promotion or anything like that.I'm not picking a fight.I'm just relaying my idea of what is required to solve this mystery.Any of you can carry the same torch as I do.There are a lot of things worse than this to be foolish about.There is something very good in this story for anyone who really wants to know about it.

I'd rather remember this:Bessler was the expert.the authority on this subject,he wrote extensively  and since nobody can outshine the man I will continue to look to him and his Hebrew God for the answers.This is best.The above post is not directed toward anyone that is already an accomplished expert on the subject.I am simply giving my advice on how the weeds can be separated from the grain and how to give the utmost consideration concerning a subject that one man,without pretense,claims to have achieved.Those who continue to say that Bessler didn't prove anything and refuse to believe,they themselves become,the hard nut,the impenetrable vessel.Have you read his books AB?

I haven't claimed anything.If you have something valuable to trade however...on second thought never mind.In closing i am done with these boards...all ye experts,pretenders and the like.I no longer care about any of it.I have reached my own conclusions and I have nobody to thank but myself for that.I learned a lot.You will have your free energy.But for now i will be content to restrict things to my own back yard so to speak.You will never see the likes of me on any such message board again.I don't have the same burdens to bare that Bessler did.To me it was a challenge.I tried to speak but my words seemed to fall on deaf ears.So figure it out yourself if you can.I have nothing to prove.I am satisfied totally.But let me say that regardless of what you think,nobody in their right mind is going to come on this board and share a working design that truly constitutes perpetual motion.I personally instead of something so stupid as that would take the basic concept and improve it through the consultation of engineers and the like.But for you guys to think that someone who is capable of realizing such a thing is going to carelessly dump it onto the internet into a shit loop like this,well,you are just dreaming.I hope you hate me.I don't care.I am done trying to imply anything.Getting booted from BW was the best thing that could have happened.If you (admin) would boot me from here it would probably help rather than hurt.I feel sorry for all you people who pretend to be holding aces but it serves you right when someone like me comes along to crash your party.People need a little more than to be fed bullshit all their lives.

I have had a good conversation with a physicist at Cornell today.he seems to think that the little machine has the power to alter reality and science as we know it.With an understanding of said machine much clearer than he,i can assure everyone that it has no such power.This thing has been trumped up more than anything in history.It has a power alright but it won't alter reality or break any relevant laws.Anyway for those who are interested in what i am willing to say: It is being built.Stay tuned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christo4_99
questions to anyone: what is the foundation of your thoughts on this subject? is it knowing or assuming?

deciding that something is impossible just because someone else did does not make it so.

if you state that it is impossible and then someone proves that it is...does that make you a liar or a fool?

...if someone solves the problem (with a different approach) then is there any less merit to the achievement than there would have been when it was a more respectable pursuit or a fad so to speak?

Physicist:Well, what is the difference between knowing and assuming? No one has access to absolute knowledge, and such may not even exist. Every statement that we make confidently as fact, such as "the sun will rise in the east," is based on accumulated experience, supported by physical laws that make this prediction plausible. I would bet my life on that prediction. If the sun in fact rises in the west tomorrow, it will invalidate all of mankind's science and accepted understanding of reality. If someone told me that he has seen the sun rise in the west, then I would assume that he is joking or confused.

Absolutely true.

Absolutely not. All of our assumptions about reality are actually bets placed on our best knowledge of the day. These are mostly good bets, just as betting on a straight flush is a good bet in a poker game. If the poker player loses the hand to another straight flush with a higher card, that does not make him a fool, let alone a liar.

Solving a problem with a new approach always has merit, and often makes the solver famous. However, you speak of physical laws as if they were legislative acts, such as prohibiting alcohol or setting the value of pi equal to 3. In fact, the laws of mechanics are a network of interlocking principles and relationships that explain hundreds of years of observations to a phenomenal degree of precision. It is not possible to void one of those laws without voiding them all and destroying all of science in the process. Conservation of energy is one of those laws, and a working Bessler wheel would violate conservation of energy. In popular terms, a world with working Bessler wheels is also a world where pigs can fly and the sun rises in the west when it feels like it. That is why all of us with science educations are betting that the Bessler wheel does not exist. I think that this is as good a bet as I am ever going to see. I do not have the intellectual capital to grapple with a new physics without gross conservation of energy, so I am fully prepared to receive my commitment papers when I see convincing proof of its operation. Best wishes to you, and good luck.

me again: okay so if i build a self moving machine like Bessler's then suddenly pigs will fly ! note:this is a scientist talking here ! I doubt if Bessler knew of all the flying pigs in the area when he built his machine. any stories of flying pigs in history fellows ? silly question but answer : no flying pigs. well documented Bessler wheel but no flying pigs. If y'all can find anything other than fiction on flying pigs let me know. roflmao

I have had a good conversation with a physicist at Cornell today.he seems to think that the little machine has the power to alter reality and science as we know it.With an understanding of said machine much clearer than he,i can assure everyone that it has no such power.This thing has been trumped up more than anything in history.It has a power alright but it won't alter reality or break any relevant laws.Anyway for those who are interested in what i am willing to say: It is being built.Stay tuned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by christo4_99
questions to anyone: what is the foundation of your thoughts on this subject? is it knowing or assuming?

deciding that something is impossible just because someone else did does not make it so.

if you state that it is impossible and then someone proves that it is...does that make you a liar or a fool?

...if someone solves the problem (with a different approach) then is there any less merit to the achievement than there would have been when it was a more respectable pursuit or a fad so to speak?

Physicist:Well, what is the difference between knowing and assuming? No one has access to absolute knowledge, and such may not even exist. Every statement that we make confidently as fact, such as "the sun will rise in the east," is based on accumulated experience, supported by physical laws that make this prediction plausible. I would bet my life on that prediction. If the sun in fact rises in the west tomorrow, it will invalidate all of mankind's science and accepted understanding of reality. If someone told me that he has seen the sun rise in the west, then I would assume that he is joking or confused.

Absolutely true.

Absolutely not. All of our assumptions about reality are actually bets placed on our best knowledge of the day. These are mostly good bets, just as betting on a straight flush is a good bet in a poker game. If the poker player loses the hand to another straight flush with a higher card, that does not make him a fool, let alone a liar.

Solving a problem with a new approach always has merit, and often makes the solver famous. However, you speak of physical laws as if they were legislative acts, such as prohibiting alcohol or setting the value of pi equal to 3. In fact, the laws of mechanics are a network of interlocking principles and relationships that explain hundreds of years of observations to a phenomenal degree of precision. It is not possible to void one of those laws without voiding them all and destroying all of science in the process. Conservation of energy is one of those laws, and a working Bessler wheel would violate conservation of energy. In popular terms, a world with working Bessler wheels is also a world where pigs can fly and the sun rises in the west when it feels like it. That is why all of us with science educations are betting that the Bessler wheel does not exist. I think that this is as good a bet as I am ever going to see. I do not have the intellectual capital to grapple with a new physics without gross conservation of energy, so I am fully prepared to receive my commitment papers when I see convincing proof of its operation. Best wishes to you, and good luck.

me again: okay so if i build a self moving machine like Bessler's then suddenly pigs will fly ! note:this is a scientist talking here ! I doubt if Bessler knew of all the flying pigs in the area when he built his machine. any stories of flying pigs in history fellows ? silly question but answer : no flying pigs. well documented Bessler wheel but no flying pigs. If y'all can find anything other than fiction on flying pigs let me know. roflmao

Physicist?
if that's the case then you know less than the physicist and have no working model against peer physicists, so far for the last 200 years nobody has proven them wrong with any working model, hold your tongue there sunshine.

Jerry

I am sick and tired of all the doubt and all the pretenders. I really feel sorry for the guys who are now getting older even than I (45ish) who have looked for this thing all their lives. I tried to share what I know with John Collins but he would rather arrogantly and stupidly stick to his own ideas (the assumption that Bessler encoded information about his wheel in writing and/or images) and promote things that lead nowhere. I have been at this for 6 years approximately and have all the answers that anyone is ever gonna get from Bessler...which is more than sufficient to build his wheel. And it's not all talk. When the wheel is built,given,my life will be easier but realize that I already know it will work ! This is not another case of someone's mouth writing a check that their ass can't cash. I am finished reaching out to people i pity. I am finished taking a back seat to anyone including the people who stand on science to say it can't be done. I am also tired of the more elite members of these boards and their attempts to try and tell me to hold my tongue (or the like ) based on the assumption that a physicist would know more about perpetual motion than me. I am the only one who knows anything about it.

Hammer, I could give a shit less about any of these boards and all you wannabes. I hope you realize that whatever you say it concerns me in the least. Jump on someone who doesn't know anything and you may get somewhere. I am not complaining about how i am treated. I am saying you are a pretender... and you will see,so in the mean time let go of your egocentricity and listen for a change. All you have accomplished is to run your mouth on these message boards and like the rest are helping people down a road that leads to nothing. My point being that you are not an accomplished person ,nor an authority ,nor well informed are any of the things that people or yourself think you might be. You don't understand my position because you are not in it. Read what Bessler wrote . You will notice the same bite in the things that he said the reason being that he knew something that nobody else knows . Sooner or later no matter who you are you will have to see that. the party is over my friend. This is one man that nobody on this earth will be able to deny . Again here the same mistake is being made: the teacher is being mistaken for a student. If i have the correct principle and you don't that makes me the teacher and you the student. All of you say :proof!...but this is not about proof it's about whatever i want it to be about because I am the real thing and you all are just pretenders... assuming to be able to correct me or teach me something. There is nothing left to be taught. When you understand that you will understand my position and Bessler's as well and perhaps if you are modest enough ,your own.

 In the end as you will see none of this will make a difference... ... Bessler only needed one principle as do I. I don't claim to be a builder/failure. I claim to know what Bessler did and I too am building the same. You cannot hope to compete with this unless you know the same thing that i do. Some people just learn faster than others . What difference do my forum skills make if i have the very principle which  Bessler had ? The popular opinion propagated by certain so called "experts" has only served to inhibit me. Realize that since you are still promoting them and yourself as being superior somehow and to be taken seriously without extending others the same courtesy and leading people to NOTHING... that you have been and remain on the wrong side of things. My efforts are not so empty . How about you PRODUCE something as you have probably had sufficient time. As far as I can tell Perpetual Motion such as that attributed to Bessler has not been seen since. What i am offering is the rebirth of that very thing ! And you expect me to just throw it out there like so much of the bullshit that has been peddled as truth to date ?