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Author Topic: Trawoeer Power Pyramid Version 12 - Electrical output from a homemade pyramid  (Read 544753 times)

k4zep

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Hi All,

Hours of adjustments, It does not work on this first attempt inside condo.  Passed low AC voltage test after "charge".  Monitoring VDC across motor.  NO voltage ever seen down to 0.0mv.  Which makes sense across essentially a short circuit unless Pyramid starts working.  Over a strong indication of water but I am 6 stories up.  Will take it outside in a day or two.  Very windy here today, fringe effects of Irene.
Several technical question are unanswered but am very patient have time to sort this out.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP



neptune

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@Zhak .Look at my list of safety precautions - Reply number245 on page 17 of this thread .@Ben . We all owe you a debt of gratitude for the time and effort you are putting into this .Hang in there , we all have much faith in you . As you know , TT is in Egypt at the moment . I an not pretending that anyone here knows any more than you do , but until TT returns , why not post your technical questions on here . At least it will give us something to talk about in the meantime , and multiple heads are better than one . Re Erdtaucher . I sent him a PM asking for an update . He is very busy , but promised to email me with some info this weekend . With his permission I will post it here . Our thoughts are with the people of east coast USA during this hurricane .

k4zep

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@Zhak .Look at my list of safety precautions - Reply number245 on page 17 of this thread .@Ben . We all owe you a debt of gratitude for the time and effort you are putting into this .Hang in there , we all have much faith in you . As you know , TT is in Egypt at the moment . I an not pretending that anyone here knows any more than you do , but until TT returns , why not post your technical questions on here . At least it will give us something to talk about in the meantime , and multiple heads are better than one . Re Erdtaucher . I sent him a PM asking for an update . He is very busy , but promised to email me with some info this weekend . With his permission I will post it here . Our thoughts are with the people of east coast USA during this hurricane .

Hi Neptune,

More than technical questions, more like technical demonstrations from TT:

1.  Demonstrate and show voltage across the motor and current in motor loop at a dead standstill before it is hand spun and as it starts and keeps spinning all in ONE shot.  As he showed that voltage and current are in the loop with his power monitor, this is a simple demonstration and needs to be shown.  No starting and stopping of video, one continuous shot.

Continuing...

2.  Demonstrate by slowly rotating the Pyramid clockwise and counter clockwise 10 degrees off of its N direction and touching nothing else, the voltage and current dropping in the motor loop and loss of operation on a  working pyramid via the same power monitor.  Then moving it back to correct alignment, spin the motor and it restarts operation.  Again all in one continuous shot.

Continuing...

3.  Demonstrate by moving the pyramid gently 3 feet in all directions while running and show the voltage and current drops off and unit ceases to operate via the same power monitor which shows voltage, current and calculates power in watts.  Re-center pyramid, spin motor,
show voltage and current come back up from zero and continued operation.

Continuing...

4.  Demonstrate that moving the reactor off of CENTER in the pyramid, lowers the output of the device as shown on the power monitor, cessation of operation, re-centering and operation with spin up continues.


The power monitor (which shows voltage, current and watts) was shown in one of his videos.......

This sure would answer some questions I have.  As I said before its not what he has shown, but what he did not show.  In this case, 15 min of video would be worth a million words.???
This is a hell of a hot time for Thomas to visit Egypt......whew! 

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP



zhak

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Made some precautions for the transformer

zhak

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Thanks neptune, for clarification and caution.
Much has translate through an interpreter, some sentences difficult to understand.
I would like a hundred times to recheck

zhak

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Neptune,
We are also keeping our fingers crossed and worried about your country. My relatives live in your country.
But I could never understand why you are building a house out of plywood, because the brick and concrete can withstand the many hurricanes.

neptune

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@zhak .Look at the cable between your plug and your transformer . If it has 3 wires , connect the EARTH wire to the FRAME of your transformer . I do not live in the USA [United States of America] I live in England . I am sure we are all thinking about the people in the USA .

GPS25

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    • http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtStdTransylvania#play/uploads
Building the Pyramid--My personal aproach,here is the first part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnBuc5KwMgU&feature=channel_video_title

zhak

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@zhak .Look at the cable between your plug and your transformer . If it has 3 wires , connect the EARTH wire to the FRAME of your transformer . I do not live in the USA [United States of America] I live in England . I am sure we are all thinking about the people in the USA .
I do not watch this output transformer grounding
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11068.0;attach=55100;image


GPS25

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    • http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtStdTransylvania#play/uploads
Here is The first part of how to build your Pyramid for this project.My personal aproach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnBuc5KwMgU&feature=channel_video_title

GPS25

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    • http://www.youtube.com/user/ArtStdTransylvania#play/uploads
Here is my second part of my video"Pyramid System Geometry" I hope it will help everybody to build a great Pyramid.Good luck to all of you.
Regards George

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfBj2kYEgwU&feature=channel_video_title

neptune

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@zhak . Use a nut and bolt to connect the mains earth wire from your cable to one of the mounting holes at the base [bottom] of your transformer . Or connect it to any IRON part of the transformer .

Pascuser

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I am Back home since one week and I had to delay my pyramid building up to now because of family occupations. I started to work on the pyramid Gegyx made for me, scale 1:1 this time.

As I will load my sand like TT with the CB I give you some information I saw in his video:
the amplifier is a tecnitel AML 35 (you can see tecnitel AML written on it in the video and with the web you see this is the AML 35).

Specifications are here:
http://cb-world.info/Linears/tecnitel/Linear/Technitel_AML35/frames_tecnitel_aml35.htm
We clearly see that it is the same picture for the amplifier in TT's video and in the specifications.

So we see that it is a 30W output linear amplifier and designed for the 27MHz band. This gives us then too the frequency of the transmitter TT used: 27MHz.
He uses channel 1 on the CB.

You can see that wire going from amplifier to the wire winded on the copper tube for sand charging is about 3 meters long. This is important because it has an impact on the impedance for the connexion with the wire winded on the copper tube and the SWR changes according to this length.

The total length of wire with 97 turns and the straight ends is 4.30 meters.

For channel 1 TT used for his CB (you see it on the video) frequency is 26.965MHz in 27MHz band (CB standard), so wave length is 11.11meter in empty space.
Then you must take in account the velocity reduction in atmosphere of light speed and multiply with the factor 0.95

So wavelength is in atmosphere: 11.11x0.95=10.55
A half wavelength is about 5.30 meters
If you use a smith chart (I documented myself today about all this, I did not know this before) you see that this corresponds (4.30 meters of wire instead of 5.30 required for half wevelength) to a SWR a little bit greater than 2.

So the amplifier doesn't break!! This is very important, since a very bad length mismatch gives a big SWR (infinity or near if dismatched) and if greater than 3 it breaks the amplifier surely; safety is only SWR=2 max for the material.

The velocity of light speed in the coaxial gives (0.66 factor) gives a half wavelength of 3.67 meters for optimal transfer, and you must substract the electrical length of the amplifier so what I see is a wire matched here because I see about 3 meters (only vusial estimation); no additional SWR because of it. If you use a smaller or longer wire you create additional SWR.


So TT could use its CB and amplifier because the SWR was a little greater than 2 and this is safe for a short use, less than few minutes. This amplifier has no protection so it was logical that you had SWR<3 surely; if not it would vahe broken in seconds of use and TT uses it for more than seconds to fill in the sand.

If you don't mind about all this your amplifier will burn within seconds of use.
My last one burnt is a preliminary test on an antenna because I think the connector was not enough tightened and the output of amplifier was in an opened circuit.

Now you can charge your sand with a CB, you know what to do. TT did it with the CB and a replication is best with the same procedures not to create more problems than we have.

Mister Trawoeger, could you please confirm the SWR you had while connected to the charging sand copper tube wire and the length of your coaxial used?

neptune

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Hi Pascuser , and welcome back . That was a very informative article about RF amplifiers and SWR  . Here is some information that may enable you to get that SWR down below 2 .
First set up the apparatus without the amplifier . Just connect the CB transceiver to the swr meter , and connect the SWR meter antenna socket to the Reactor using the length of Coaxial cable you described above . Start with a cable slightly longer than you calculated .Calibrate the SWR meter according to the makers instructions . Now check the SWR on channel 1 and again on channel 40 . If the swr is lower on channel 40 , shorten the coaxial cable by one centimeter . If the SWR is lower on channel 1 , The cable needs to be slightly longer . When you get the SWR as low as possible , you are ready to connect the amplifier . When making adjustments , only switch on the transmitter for a short time to read the meter .I hope this helps .

Pascuser

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A ham told me that an antenna must have a length an odd multiple of 1/4 wavelength and not 1/2 wavelength. I read again the documentation, and it is 1/2 wavelength with a feed in the middle so you have 1/4 wavelength for each half antenna, he is right.

You can also only use a 1/4 wavelength wire instead of two symmetric 1/4 wavelength feeded in the middle.

With this updated information, resonance is set with L/4=2.64 meters or odd multiple, next one is 7.92 meters. So with 4.3 meters of wire you have 4.3-2.64=1.66 meters too long and this is a 0.157 times the wavelength too long and with Smith chart you read then a SWR=4.2
That is much too big! And the amplifier should have broken within seconds. So you must either reduce the 1.66 length to 1 meter (shorten the wire winded on the copper tube) to have SWR=2 of use an impedance adapter connected to the wire winded on the copper tube.

@Neptune
The information you gave is useful to make the coaxial match the right length for a non additional SWR, but the SWR because of the dismatched antenna is too big with this new information.