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Author Topic: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo  (Read 45853 times)

Offline poynt99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2011, 07:03:24 PM »
.99, I have seen (I think) where you can make C1 and C2 variable caps in a sim, either that or sweep the frequency?

Dunno, you're the doctor

Ron
Just to further my comment above, I'm questioning this because a frequency sweep of this patent circuit from 15Hz to 100kHz yields nothing but a 1:1 high-pass response on the output.

.99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2011, 07:03:24 PM »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2011, 07:15:58 PM »
Ron,

I'm now looking at this thing and wondering "what is the big deal?". What I see is no matter which operating mode (generator or transformer), after a certain high frequency (determined by XC), aren't the two windings just simply in parallel?

It doesn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

.99

Yes, without more information as to what the guy figured was happening it is just another head scratcher... thanks for confirming what I suspected

Ron

Offline poynt99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2011, 08:10:00 PM »
Well, in case there is something to this patent and we've missed it, I have translated it and saved it as a pdf, along with the original patent and better patent drawings.

He claims the coil pair is non-inductive.

.99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2011, 08:10:00 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2011, 05:21:17 PM »
Well, in case there is something to this patent and we've missed it, I have translated it and saved it as a pdf, along with the original patent and better patent drawings.

He claims the coil pair is non-inductive.

.99

Thanks, excellent translation makes for a fascinating read!  It would seem then that a better thought out experiment would show some advantages?

Exactly what is implied, non-inductive is anti Lenz?

Ron

Offline poynt99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2011, 01:04:54 AM »
Thanks, excellent translation makes for a fascinating read!  It would seem then that a better thought out experiment would show some advantages?

Exactly what is implied, non-inductive is anti Lenz?

Ron
I haven't poured over the entire patent yet, only a few bits. I'll have to print it out and read it before bed (hopefully it won't put me to sleep).

.99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2011, 01:04:54 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 12:48:44 AM »
Had a chance to read the patent translation last night.

I still don't see how the inductor can be non-inductive. But, he seems to claim that the effect is at least partially due to the capacitive winding, which of course can not be easily simulated in SPICE. So I think I'll leave this one alone unless/until someone comes up with a brilliant idea.

I would think the best start would be to build the inductor and see if while driving it with an oscillator, it indeed is non-inductive. Ron, have you not already done that with your coil posted on the first page?

.99

Offline bolt

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 04:11:35 AM »
Same old, same old!  Several related coil windings to create a 90 degree phase shift so they are 180 degrees out of phase to cancel any inductance.  They call  it capacitive current. This is the same thing its reactive. So this creates VARS and with VARS there is no in phase current and no lugging.  There is however massive amount of kinetic energy and standing waves.  Result is large increase in magnetic flux which comes from ambient electron from vector tensor. This information pre-dates the patent by several decades it can be challenged! (if you got too much money to waste in court)

 Effect on Ambient is non linear can not be seen in SIM's. So as i said on page one you go full circle and can not use a SIM to show OU on simple math program that has no understand of ZPE.

RLC @ PF 0 = OU using applied RF principle.

PS i do like the patent though. Backs up what i have been saying for years :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 05:17:18 AM by bolt »

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 04:11:35 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2011, 05:38:34 AM »
I had no intention of looking for, nor expecting to find ZPE with a simulation of that patent. Where did you get that impression from?

While the subject is fresh, please point to any example of someone on any forum that is or has been exploiting ZPE with their Muller-type work. Then please explain the exact physical mechanism being employed to do so.

.99

Offline bolt

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 03:37:54 PM »
I had no intention of looking for, nor expecting to find ZPE with a simulation of that patent. Where did you get that impression from?

While the subject is fresh, please point to any example of someone on any forum that is or has been exploiting ZPE with their Muller-type work. Then please explain the exact physical mechanism being employed to do so.

.99

Then i don't know what you are trying to model?  If you think Muller is conventional electronics and can be modelled using SPICE it can not so im not sure what your objective is especially as the title of this thread is Simulation of the Muller.

"While the subject is fresh, please point to any example of someone on any forum that is or has been exploiting ZPE with their Muller-type work. "

RomeroUK and he is the only one so far that has fully exploited ZPE.   Did you not see it powering a lamp and spinning on its own? Its not powered by pixie dust either.

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 03:37:54 PM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2011, 04:13:45 PM »
If you think Muller is conventional electronics and can be modelled using SPICE it can not so im not sure what your objective is especially as the title of this thread is Simulation of the Muller.

There are very clear simulation examples that show ZPE is feasible.
I'll give one example: http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=233

Offline bolt

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2011, 04:18:08 PM »
There are very clear simulation examples that show ZPE is feasible.
http://philica.com/display_article.php?article_id=233

Yes i know all about that i read all his papers. But his model although allows for ZPE unlike SPICE is tad too optimistic on gains. He is out by a factor of about 10.  His 1000w device is better 100 watts best theoretical and in practice more like 60-80 watts and requires EXCITATION. See my posts on this.

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2011, 04:18:08 PM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2011, 04:29:18 PM »
Yes i know all about that i read all his papers. But his model although allows for ZPE unlike SPICE is tad too optimistic on gains. He is out by a factor of about 10.  His 1000w device is better 100 watts best theoretical and in practice more like 60-80 watts and requires EXCITATION. See my posts on this.

If you compare Turtur's simulations to what RomeroUK has done, I am not sure the comparison can be made w.r.t. the efficiency.
In quite some aspects RomeroUK's implementation differ from Turtur's approach.
The directions RomoroUK left us contain aspects that leave much room for efficiency improvements.
If one interpretes Turtur's model well, you'll see that some assumptions are incorrect, but those can be easily corrected.
To conclude Turtur's model is too optimistic is too early to say in my view.

B.t.w. Turtur's model only requires exitation to startup. After that exitation can be left out.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 04:51:33 PM by teslaalset »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2011, 05:03:46 PM »
Had a chance to read the patent translation last night.

I still don't see how the inductor can be non-inductive. But, he seems to claim that the effect is at least partially due to the capacitive winding, which of course can not be easily simulated in SPICE. So I think I'll leave this one alone unless/until someone comes up with a brilliant idea.

I would think the best start would be to build the inductor and see if while driving it with an oscillator, it indeed is non-inductive. Ron, have you not already done that with your coil posted on the first page?

.99

Thank you all for your input here, it helps with my understanding.

I was mainly concerned with the generator aspect of this patented coil. However I see no real advantage as it does reflect back to the prime mover.

In this setup, as per the patent I have a 24 NSNS magnet rotor at 1740 RPM.Best output is with 2 X 25 Mfd for about 18 watts output. But cost 21 watts extra on the PM. (88%)

12 Mfd brought a drop in output and lower efficiency, (87%)

30 Mfd was the best run at 17 watts output for a cost of 16.8 watts

45 Mfd and it started to drop off again (96%)

Not tried is the supposed increase in magnet field as a motor coil...

Ron

Edit: rectified to DC...20 ohm load




Offline FreeEnergyInfo

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Re: Simulation of the Muller Dynamo
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2011, 07:47:53 PM »
WO 2010003394  (A2)
CAPACITIVE WINDING FOR ELECTRIC MOTORS, TRANSFORMERS, AND SOLENOIDS

The invention relates to a capacitive winding which is made of copper wire, has an inductive reactance of zero, is composed of two parallel conductors (1, 2), and is wound like a coil on the soft magnetic core [8]. Both conductors (1, 2) are electrically connected at the beginning of the coil by means of a capacitor (3) and are also electrically connected to a capacitor (4) at the end of the coil. The first conductor (1) is connected to a pole of an oscillating power generator (5) at the beginning of the coil, while the second conductor (2) is connected to the second pole of the oscillating power generator at the end of the coil. The capacitive winding is arranged in the stator and rotor grooves of an electric motor, and the capacitors (3, 4) are mounted outside the motor structure.; Capacitive current that flows through the windings of an electric motor generates a magnetic field in the gap between the stator and the rotor such that the apparent electric power is converted into effective mechanical power.

 :o
VIEV...
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/igor_pavlovic_kuldosin_/

 

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