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Author Topic: Romero's experiments and OU principles  (Read 102654 times)

Offline romerouk

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2011, 01:46:43 AM »
Hi  teslaalset,

Magluvin just answered your question. In my other setup the coils were capacitors too(maybe not the right way to describe it but I hope you understand)
If my ideas are not good enough I can keep quiet too. I said many times that everyone should test things themself, before jumping to conclusions, then decide to build something or not.I have been wrong many times too, I am not a master in this, I am in learning mode too.
I found some posts on the forum being amazing and helped me to understand things that I have not understood before.
Since my first post I learned more about that effect and I still do.Lately I have changed many things as I am looking to get it in a different way.For that I do lots of experiments daily as I don't want to waste expensive parts and change again if I am not happy with the build.I have just got many coils worth £360. I will post a picture but I don't have them at home. I don't do much work at home now.

All the best,
Romero

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2011, 01:46:43 AM »

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2011, 02:07:02 AM »
I think your doing fine Romero. ;]

Now to figure how the bifi style coil was configured....

Does anyone have the same 7 strand wire as Romero?

How many ohms, 300 turns, 7 strands in parallel?

How many ohms single strand?

How many ohms prescribed per coil?


Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2011, 02:54:16 AM »
hmmm  7 strands would make an odd and even pair of windings.
Maybe 1 strand shorted, and 3 and 3 bifi?

I remember Zeropoint's self spinning sphere. The coil was 4000 turns of like 26awg and 30awg  something like that, so maybe 4 and 3 strands bifi?  Or all 7 in series?

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2011, 02:54:16 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2011, 03:47:51 AM »
@RomeroUK,

So, you basically told us the wrong way in the beginning?
1) No extra capacitors in the circuit, otherwise you had told us
2) No hints towards special winding?
I strongly doubt that. I think you were very to the point back then.

I hope you are sincere about this and not trying to get us off the hook on purpose.
To be honest I have the impression you were more trustworthy at the start of all this and not being straight forward right now.
With all respect.

We have no idea what agreement Romerouk has made but I don't think there is any reason to be tossing around concerns about trustworthiness.  He has since coming back mostly asked us to validate certain concepts for ourselves through experimentation that would not cost much.  That implies he is here to help as anything we learn through a validating experiment is as good as gold both for learning concepts and for proof that an idea works in the real world.  My sense is he's probably even sticking his neck out a bit to be here at all.  I'm grateful for anything he can share with us from his years of experimenting. 
    There are enough smart people around here that I don't think he would get away with giving misleading info even if he wanted to.  And that would seriously hurt his credibility if he did.  So I don't expect that is going on at all. 

  Mags I think those who got the same 7 strand wire size were getting around 2 Ohms on a sewing machine size spool but I believe they weren't quite getting 300 winds on it. 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2011, 03:59:01 AM »
Well, I took a look at some pics, and cant see evidence of separation of strands to multifi. It looks as if all 7 in a bundle go to the bridge input.
Sooo an alternative would be that the bifi link, where the 2 windings of 7 strands are somewhere in the coil or on it, and just the working ends are sent to the bridge.
So 150 turns of each? That would be a tough config to stumble upon.

2 ohms?  is that what Romero claimed? For some reason I remember 5 ohm.  Not like I havnt been wrong before. ;]

Magz

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2011, 03:59:01 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2011, 07:10:18 AM »
It's in the almost 200 page thread somewhere ... :)   I seem to remember it being about 2 ohms and some others that were close in making early coils had close to that if they had the same Litz wire.  But my formerly photographic memory is a bit fuzzy these days so don't take my word on it. 

BTW I posted this in the main thread but no takers so maybe Romero or someone here might like to take a guess on this plan:
I've got a bunch of old hard drive magnets that are mounted on Mu metal.  I've got a good metal bandsaw and I thought about knocking off the magnets and cutting the Mu metal pieces into strips about wide enough to put 3 or 4 into a coil core.  I think I could probably get about 2 cores per piece of Mu metal.  This band saw has been good for even cutting 0.30" thick Titanium so I don't think it will have any problem cutting the Mu metal.  Does anyone see any problems with this idea?  It will be a slow process but a couple hours of cutting I think will yield enough for all the coils.  They would probably be a 1/8" x 1/8" x coil length (about 5/8" long) and I think I'd tape several pieces together for each core. 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2011, 07:33:50 AM »
Is that what is in the HD that the magnets are on?

Better to use a dremel with a cutting wheel. You can get nice cuts with patients and not waste the material. ;]

I have been throwing away mumetal?

Hmm

Soo, if 2 ohm, then the coil is wound bifi, no separation of strands. The series connection is made on the coil itself somewhere. That will mean a rewind for some. I would try a couple first. ;]

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2011, 07:33:50 AM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2011, 07:35:50 AM »
It's in the almost 200 page thread somewhere ... :)   I seem to remember it being about 2 ohms and some others that were close in making early coils had close to that if they had the same Litz wire.  But my formerly photographic memory is a bit fuzzy these days so don't take my word on it. 

BTW I posted this in the main thread but no takers so maybe Romero or someone here might like to take a guess on this plan:
I've got a bunch of old hard drive magnets that are mounted on Mu metal.  I've got a good metal bandsaw and I thought about knocking off the magnets and cutting the Mu metal pieces into strips about wide enough to put 3 or 4 into a coil core.  I think I could probably get about 2 cores per piece of Mu metal.  This band saw has been good for even cutting 0.30" thick Titanium so I don't think it will have any problem cutting the Mu metal.  Does anyone see any problems with this idea?  It will be a slow process but a couple hours of cutting I think will yield enough for all the coils.  They would probably be a 1/8" x 1/8" x coil length (about 5/8" long) and I think I'd tape several pieces together for each core. 

much better is to cut stripes from foil like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mumetal-magnetic-shielding-sheet-/320711045986?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aabde3362#ht_500wt_1156


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2011, 07:46:03 AM »
Does anyone have some good pics of a coil?

Maybe we can see detail of if its bifi.

In this pic, the upper right one looks too have 2 wires coming from the core outward, and in the other coils I tend to see the output wires not coming from the rotor side surface of the core.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2011, 07:46:03 AM »
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Offline teslaalset

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2011, 09:28:55 AM »
One final set of remarks from my side on this capacitor thingy and then I will stop nagging.

Earlier yesterday I posted in the main OU discussion thread that multifilar wire ( = litze) probably includes a capacitance of several tenths of pF (see http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.2940 , reply #2940).
Quite different from the uF range values that others came up with.

It would be good to just having confirmed that multifilar is the way to go, rather then expressing the same thing as some sort of special winding is necessary to get added capacitance in the coil. Most of the forum member have no clue what you're talking about.
Advising in a too cryptical way will lead to even more cluttered discussions.

I am seeking for some kind of confirmation on my estimation that we have a few tenths of pF here.
Anyone with a trustworthy (;)) link?

[update]
Interesting links I found myself:
http://www.westbay.ndirect.co.uk/capacita.htm
http://www.magnetricity.com/NeoG/Bifilar.php (in particular fig 2 raises questions when projected to a 7 strand mutifilar coil as we are suppose to use)

« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 04:34:56 PM by teslaalset »

Offline duff

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2011, 10:39:33 AM »

I have email the wire mfg and requested the specs on the wire Romero used.

Will post their response.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2011, 10:39:33 AM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2011, 11:16:19 AM »
From my notes at the time , Romero quoted the resistance of each coil as 1.7 to 2 ohms . Some one suggested on one of the threads to cause the coil to "ring" and use a scope to find its resonant frequency . We do not all have scopes . If someone with a scope can do this ,and tell us what the ideal resonant frequency is , there are easier cheaper ways to measure it . One way would be to connect the coil , with its added cap if any , into a one transistor radio frequency oscillator , and listen for it on a receiver . Or for those with radio tech experience , use a grid dip oscillator .
       If we work on one coil , or one coil pair at a time ,on the bench , with a means of measuring the frequency , we can tune it simply by winding it with too many turns , and remove turns until the frequency rises to the desired result .I favour the one-transistor-oscillator circuit method , and a receiver or frequency counter to measure the result .
EDIT . Maybe it will suffice to just adjust all coils to have the same frequency , as the ideal figure will be RPM dependent.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 11:38:43 AM by neptune »

Offline maw2432

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2011, 12:31:35 PM »
From my notes at the time , Romero quoted the resistance of each coil as 1.7 to 2 ohms . Some one suggested on one of the threads to cause the coil to "ring" and use a scope to find its resonant frequency . We do not all have scopes . If someone with a scope can do this ,and tell us what the ideal resonant frequency is , there are easier cheaper ways to measure it . One way would be to connect the coil , with its added cap if any , into a one transistor radio frequency oscillator , and listen for it on a receiver . Or for those with radio tech experience , use a grid dip oscillator .
       If we work on one coil , or one coil pair at a time ,on the bench , with a means of measuring the frequency , we can tune it simply by winding it with too many turns , and remove turns until the frequency rises to the desired result .I favour the one-transistor-oscillator circuit method , and a receiver or frequency counter to measure the result .
EDIT . Maybe it will suffice to just adjust all coils to have the same frequency , as the ideal figure will be RPM dependent.

Neptune,  not sure if this would help but I have seen some multimeters with Frequency measuring capabilities.
For example this on sale for 19.99

http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/html/M-118-12-Digit-DMM-With-Capacitance-and-HFE-and-Frequency-822.html

Bill

Offline neptune

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2011, 12:50:38 PM »
@maw2432. Yes , such a multimeter would help . But we still need to wire the coil temporarily into an oscillator circuit to get it to oscillate . The choice of oscillator circuit is important . We cannot use a Hartley circuit because it needs a coil tap . A Colpitts circuit needs 2 external caps . There is a circuit I used about 40 years ago . It used a NPN transistor with the tuned circuit as collector load . A potential divider set the base bias , with 2 small caps in parallel with these bias resistors . At the expected frequency , a small cap , say 10pf needs to be connected between collector and emitter to provide feed back . That is all there is to it .
         An altogether simpler approach is to just use a suitable meter to measure the inductance of each coil . This is not so accurate as 2 coils may have the same inductance , but different self-capacitance , and thus a different resonant frequency . So I think the above oscillator will be the answer . Perhaps someone could draw a diagram with suitable component values , as I am not able to do this , and have only used this circuit at Very High Frequencies .

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Romero's experiments and OU principles
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2011, 02:30:15 PM »
FYI, I posted an update of my previous reply with some interesting links.

 

OneLink