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Author Topic: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass  (Read 45442 times)

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2011, 04:07:39 PM »
What don't you understand about the test?

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2011, 04:07:39 PM »

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2011, 04:11:02 PM »
H2O on earth comes in three forms, liquid, solid, or gas. H2O on earth is constantly changing forms but always the basic ingredient stays the same.

Energy in the solar system comes in three forms, solid mass, light that has mass, and gravity that has mass.
Energy is constantly changing forms. Solid mass turns into light with mass and gravity with mass, and light with mass and gravity with mass turn back into solid mass.
It is a continuous process all powered by the sun.
brian334
6/3/11

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2011, 08:07:21 PM »
people often make a distinction between mass and weight.

weight is the effect of gravity on a particular mass,

mass is often measured by displacement, but this can only be done within a gravitational field, and as such, the measurement is affected by the gravity.

a beam-scale/balance-scale is said to measure "true mass", because the weight on both sides of the balance, are affected equally by gravity. but does this truly equate to "mass" as we understand it?
if gravity has mass, it cannot be determined by a balance-scale.

Mass is the ammount of physical matter contained in whatever we are measuring, reglardless of what it "weighs" in different gravitational fields. Since liquids are considered to be volumatically constant throughout, we assume that a particular volume of liquid displaced, contains a constant mass, but again, this only holds true within a gravitational field. So how might the mass of gravity affect our measurement of the mass of physical matter?

If gravity does have mass, we would not be able to determine this by simply measureing the mass of an object, becase the mass being measured and the mass being displaced are both affected by gravity.

so the question remains, how do we measure the mass of an object, outside of a gravitational field? The answer is simple: outside of the effects of an external gravitational field, we measure mass by the gravitational force that mass creates.

So again, if gravity had mass, it would affect this measurement.


Experimentation of mass-displacement on the moon and in space, has shown that mass remains constant, independent of "weight".
or does it?

If gravity has mass, then in a different gravitational field, volumatic displacement would remain constant, because the changes in mass would be proportional between the liquid and the object being measured. This cooincides with experimental evidence, but again does not prove wether or not gravity actually has mass.

If gravity had mass, it would have to be considered a particle (such as a graviton), and therefore the mass-dependent gravitational constant, would be equal to:

 the mass of a gravity-particle X the # of particles

Rather than asking if gravity "has" mass,. perhaps we should be asking if gravity IS mass. Because, afterall, our measurement of mass, regardless of method, is dependent upon the gravitational force.

There is a test that could prove wether or not gravity has mass,. but it would have to be done at certain times, twice in a day.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Imagine, if you will, a mass in motion in the "outward" direction, and the gravitational affects on another mass. Now reverse the direction of motion to be in the opposite direction (away from the surface being measured), if gravity had mass, the effects of gravity on the masses should be different in each instance. (due to conservative momentum)
I make this assumption based upon the mass-dependent velocity of gravity. If gravitational velocity were constant (such as light in our part of the universe) this test would not be valid.

We are familiar with measurements of gravity here on earth, and the differences in gravitational force between a point at sea level, and a point on top of a mountain. These tests were used to validate the calculations of gravitational-force at distance X, and also repeated at points in the air, and in space.

If the same tests were performed, at a point on earth, during one half of the day, while the point on earth is facing the direction of motion.
Then the measurement were taken half a day later, during a time when the point on earth is facing away from the direction of motion,
This could be used to determine wether or not gravity has mass.

Since the object being measured is in constant motion with the earth, than if gravity had mass the effects of gravity should be (however-so slightly) different during the two times of day.

This test would require precise measurement of gravity, and precise astronomical calculations and timing, but if performed properly, and to an accurate enough digit, i think it would suffice to answer this question, once and for all.

If gravity has mass, then the results of this test should cooincide ( or be relatively close) to the calculations of certain Graviton Theories, in particlar - those theories that include the equation (or a version thereof) that i listed above.

This test seems simple enough that it may have been performed at some time previously, and if anyone has information or data relating to such a test, please link it here.






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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2011, 08:07:21 PM »
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Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2011, 09:44:54 PM »
Gibberish

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2011, 11:47:57 PM »
Another way to prove gravity has mass is to test meteors that pass by the earth out side of the earths atmosphere. If said meteors heat-up and slow down than gravity has mass.


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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2011, 11:47:57 PM »
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Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2011, 01:08:10 AM »
Another way to prove gravity has mass is to move a particle in a vacuum without adding any heat to the said particle. If the said particle heats up gravity has mass.   Added heat = Friction with gravity.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2011, 04:47:49 AM »
i give you a simple test, that we can perform here on earth, with equipment that is available to us,. and you call it gibberish..

then you propose two tests that are physically impossible.

1) we cannot obtain a "true vacuum", even in outer space, within the confines of our solar system, it is an extremely low pressure area, but not an absolute vacuum.

and 2) there are particles and dust floating around everywhere, which would both slow down and heat up a meteor, without the aid of "mass-containing gravity particles"


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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2011, 04:47:49 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2011, 04:55:00 AM »
furthermore,  if we are to assume that the direction of motion of these "mass-containing gravity particles" to be from somewhere outside of the earth, and moving towards the earth......

Where would this mass originate?

and suppose the gravity were to strike a Hydrogen atom..
   would the gravitational-mass then increase the atomic mass of the hydrogen atom that it impacted??  or perhaps increase the mass of the electron that orbits it?

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2011, 07:34:15 PM »
The mass of gravity comes from planets and the sun.

If gravity has mass than mass is transferred from one planet to another and in the process the density of the planet changes.
Or to put it differently planets grow and shrink depending how close to the sun they are.

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2011, 07:34:15 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2011, 09:37:08 PM »
Hello brian,

Have you seen this website, it fits with what you just wrote:

http://xearththeory.com/

The fact that the continents fit better this way gives evidence what you say may be correct about the planet earth growing.

RR2

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2011, 11:23:50 PM »
Thanks Mr. Rat,
My theory about the solar system goes like this.
The sun spites out small planets, next sunlight from the sun adds mass to the planets. The planets grow and are pushed away from the sun by the momentum of the sunlight mass.
At the same time the planets are getting bigger from the added mass from sunlight gravity is transferring mass from the planets back to the sun.

At some point the planets are far  enough from the sun where gravity is transferring mass from the planet back to the sun faster than sunlight is add mass to the planet.

At that point the density of the planet is greatly reduced and the planet turns into a big puff ball floating thru space.

For this to be true gravity must have mass.


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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2011, 11:23:50 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2011, 01:29:21 AM »
at this point, i must ask... where is this mass going?

if it were affecting the atomic mass of the elements themselves,. we would notice that. by observing elements of the same type, with differing atomic masses...

the mass of an electron is inherently constant.
we would notice differences there as well..

so,. is the added mass, forming new atoms? if so,. then we should be able to place a container out in the open, and expect to find new atoms inside over time??

what type of atoms?

is the mass comming in the form of rudimentary particles? if so, what type of particles? we would expect to find these particles in massive ammounts, since the earth would have been "increasing in mass" for millions of years....

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2011, 01:45:41 AM »
It’s a slow process, to slow for us humans to observe.

Each different element is a example of the change taking place.

You tell me why and how did each element form?

Offline brian334

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2011, 02:09:45 AM »
You half to ask the question-why don’t the planets get sucked into the sun by gravity?
Something is making the planets move away from the sun.
The combination of sunlight pushing the planets away from the sun and the increased mass of the planets makes them move away from the sun.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: A Test to Prove Gravity Has Mass
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2011, 02:12:50 AM »
It’s a slow process, to slow for us humans to observe.

Each different element is a example of the change taking place.

You tell me why and how did each element form?

thats a long conversation that i dont think has anything to do with the topic of this thread...

but , if this "gravitational-mass" process, is too slow for us humans to observe, this would indicate that the mass of a gravity particle is far too small for us to detect. And as such, any changes in heat or the motion of a massive object, would also be far too small for us to detect, thus nulifying any of your above proposed tests.

the results of micro-gravity experimentation indicates that the Earth would have gravity, even without the presence of the sun or the other planets...  In such a scenario (an earth by itself), where would the "mass" of gravity come from?

 

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