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Author Topic: Arguments against Muller design  (Read 60249 times)

Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2011, 12:44:22 PM »
I tried to discover the images myself with a program called video image extractor and yes at 8:40 I can see the wires going down the table :(

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2011, 12:44:22 PM »

Offline Hope

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #76 on: July 21, 2011, 03:55:05 PM »
AND did these super thin wires attach when he also WALKED around the room carrying the prototype running and NOT losing speed (which would occur if a battery was used)?  Where are your screen shots of this.   This motor has more magnets on each side THAN the rotor.   This concept is simple, it creates a magnetic vortex and the design also cancels back EMF.  The vortex adds to the spin which is very efficient due to the phasing.  There is no reason think that the motor could not be over COP seeing the two principles used together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ62NF9iYQ&feature=related  see this for the vortex proof and join forum and download Romero/Muller Generator pdf to see phasing design that cancels out the EMF.   No "free energy", it is provable concepts at work here.


Offline wattsup

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2011, 04:17:30 PM »
AND did these super thin wires attach when he also WALKED around the room carrying the prototype running and NOT losing speed (which would occur if a battery was used)?  Where are your screen shots of this.   This motor has more magnets on each side THAN the rotor.   This concept is simple, it creates a magnetic vortex and the design also cancels back EMF.  The vortex adds to the spin which is very efficient due to the phasing.  There is no reason think that the motor could not be over COP seeing the two principles used together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ62NF9iYQ&feature=related  see this for the vortex proof and join forum and download Romero/Muller Generator pdf to see phasing design that cancels out the EMF.   No "free energy", it is provable concepts at work here.

Look at my post on previous page shows where to see the Video 3 proof.

Remember Video 3 was only 1 minute and 40 something seconds long. Very short video so small battery is only what is required. Others have already show the wheel will turn with one drive coil pair and only 4 volts.

wattsup

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #77 on: July 21, 2011, 04:17:30 PM »
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Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #78 on: July 21, 2011, 04:24:49 PM »
I'm not saying the device is a fake, but on the image it looks like there are going 2 wires down the table.

Regards,

Offline wattsup

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2011, 04:30:13 PM »
@plengo (sorry for long post)

Just to continue from my last post so there is no ambiguity.

Actually I wish you well because I know your position is not an easy one. I know it's not easy to moderate. I know we have been through some pretty crazy things on this forum. No one really thought about doing a full inspection of Romeros videos before guys started to build like crazy. The problem is Romero just created this whole story, MIB, no more device, changes direction, comes back to the forums, makes his own forum, it all sounds like a big drama. You also have to understand something. After his Video 1 came out, Romero quickly said his video was faked, but no one believed him. No one. Everyone thought it was a plot to get the heat off his back and not get hounded by so many questions. So we don't hear from him for a while. If that was the end of the story, we would eventually have found the X Wires in Video 1 going directly to the battery and this whole story would have quickly come to an end.

But no, instead of leaving it at that, he then comes back and puts up Video 2 then Video 3. This is where I would simply say his actions where from that point on premeditated and technically he could be held totally responsible for anyone starting a build after that date onward. This was now totally intentional deception. With his first video, I can understand that it may have been a bad joke he tried to play, but Video 2 and 3 were intentional after the fact. That is not good.

When you say this would not hold up in a court of law, I think you are again mistaken. There is enough proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that Romero faked all three videos. His X Wires follow a pattern that is consistent in all three videos, that is to say where ever his Red Wire X points, there is a battery hidden. In courts, you would be surprised how many cases are won with only circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. In video 1 there is direct evidence, but in video 2 and 3, there is enough circumstantial evidence to show that Romero did the same tricks. That is all that we need to know to summarize the Romero story.

The Red Wire X.

Video 1 goes forward to the battery on the table.
Video 2 goes back and down and funny thing, that's where the hole is.
Video 3 goes behind the rear drive circuit and funny thing, in video 1 we see the two circuits transparent and the normal backs of the circuits. Then in Video 3, the right side of the rear circuit is blanked out and funny thing, that is where the red wire and black wire Xs are. Add that to Romeros obvious intentional over avoidance of filming the rear drive circuit is enough.

Also, have you asked yourself if the biasing magnets are of such grand importance in his wheel design, how come his wheel functioned with no problems at all with a good number of biasing magnets missing and the wheel was pumping out so much juice without feeling any form of drag? I mean if they are so important, why does his wheel work with so many missing. Wow. You already know that once drag starts to move in, it does not care about biasing magnets. The stronger will prevail all the time. It is all a crazy show my friend and we will have to concede that Romero won the first round but has now lost the last round.

I also know there are guys with wheels that still want ideas to get them going. Since Romero faked his videos, this only means you can now add or modify what you want to the device since the device is now open territory to all. So you no longer need to stick to his specific design, or, if you stick to his design, you can now ask yourself why his did not work and what other ways you can do to make it work. I am sure Romero is also learning new stuff on the forums (because his guidance is so vague) and I am sure he still has his wheel and is still tinkering with it. It is too bad most guys have glued their coils because the future will probably mean removing them and having them reversible. Each one of those coils has to earn its place and direction one by one by testing. I had already prepared a long post on how to move forward but it was pointless to post since everyone is only looking at Romeros videos and making sure they have the same build as him. So asking guys to consider AOAO, cascading coils, and other techniques just went to the wayside and all I got was unwarranted insults.

Anyways, the only real thing left is to advance with newer and more logical ideas.

wattsup

Hint: With one mounted generator coil that you will call "A" and one generator coil in our hand called "B", connect them in parallel with long enough wires so the rotor magnets do not affect coil B if you placed a compass beside it. You will have a dual drive coil loop. Now make the rotor turn slowly by hand while you put a compass next to the coil in your hand. Place the compass to the left or to the right, to the top or to the bottom of that B coil and see how the compass reacts when you make the rotor magnet move across the mounted coil A. DOES THIS GIVE YOU ANY IDEAS FOR CASCADING COILS?

Example: OK, now turn the rotor so one magnet is at TDC of the mounted generator coil A. Now look for another mounted generator coil "C" where the rotor magnet has just passed the coil C while the first magnet is still at TDC of A. Now imagine A and C are connected like the above paragraph. When the rotor passes A, it does three things to A. It generates 1A when it approaches A, then TDC then 2A when it leaves A. This generates in C the three events as well. Now if C is turned to the side facing the rotor magnets so that when A is at 2A, it produces in C the field polarity that is in repulsion to the rotor magnet polarity that just passed the C coil, what do you think will happen? This is the starting point to work with cascading coils. It is definitely not an easy task to map properly but the payback may be worth the effort. So imagine as a result a rotor turning without a feed supply having all passive drive coil off pairs that when you give the rotor a good spin, it continues to turn on its own. That is the limit I would see possible with a Romero design. Self turning but not producing any output because the motive force and the wanted output coils or on the same radius so there is no leverage advantage. Now if you wanted to produce output after that stage, you would put more rotor magnets closer to the shaft and put gen coils on the plates closer to the shaft also, so that the outer coils that produce the motive force will have greater leverage with them to turn the inner gen magnets and produce an output. Definitely not an easy task and not for the faint of heart. It will require tremendous discipline, experiments of all variables, recording of results, analysis of results, etc.


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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #79 on: July 21, 2011, 04:30:13 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #80 on: July 21, 2011, 04:56:19 PM »
@All

Why is this thread entitled "Arguments against Muller design". There is no argument about the Muller design. There is an argument about Romero faking three videos, period. Actually it is no longer an argument but a fact. Why is Muller mentioned here? Even the other thread called "Muller Design". Should have been called "Romero Design". Why are you guys always confusing the two.

snip

wattsup

wattsup,

My thoughts exactly! I was going to bring that point up in a later post.

Your posts like a breath of fresh air, main list now up to 300 posts and not a shred of useful 'romero build' information.

Thank you for all your hard work and due diligence!

Ron

Offline kmarinas86

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
@All

Why is this thread entitled "Arguments against Muller design". There is no argument about the Muller design. There is an argument about Romero faking three videos, period. Actually it is no longer an argument but a fact. Why is Muller mentioned here? Even the other thread called "Muller Design". Should have been called "Romero Design". Why are you guys always confusing the two.

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who notices that.

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2011, 06:56:28 PM »
AND did these super thin wires attach when he also WALKED around the room carrying the prototype running and NOT losing speed (which would occur if a battery was used)?  Where are your screen shots of this.   This motor has more magnets on each side THAN the rotor.   This concept is simple, it creates a magnetic vortex and the design also cancels back EMF.  The vortex adds to the spin which is very efficient due to the phasing.  There is no reason think that the motor could not be over COP seeing the two principles used together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJ62NF9iYQ&feature=related  see this for the vortex proof and join forum and download Romero/Muller Generator pdf to see phasing design that cancels out the EMF.   No "free energy", it is provable concepts at work here.



Edit:  I was thinking of the suspended from a string video, sorry
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 01:28:32 AM by i_ron »

Offline plengo

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2011, 07:04:44 PM »
@Watssup,

friend don't be upset with me. I am here researching just like you. I did not say your faked anything. Please re-read my previous post. I only said it is a possibility to explain things in pictures BUT I don't think you did it or anyone. I am glad posts are in black and white and you can re-read.

I did look at the videos using VirtualDub and other tools and do see the 4 frames you are talking about and all the pictures taken comes pretty much from. I do see the 2 wires going to the cap, it is very obvious BUT I am not convinced this is not a 3D trick in the mind (like I said already before). I am still revisiting this video and carefully looking at the cap and all the shades and colors around that "post in front of the cap" to see if indeed those wires go there or same place else.

It takes lots of time. I do say that I do see more "red" wires going under the transparent bottom stator that could be where those "X" and "Y" wire go but I am not affirming it because, again, it takes enormous amount of time to do this. It is irrelevant if those wires have no logical place to go. I only care if they really go to that cap. That could be really a conclusive evidence of probable source of energy to run that motor, if the wires go to inside that table's center cap.

So I do value your (and others) work and do see all the arguments. I am not calling anyone lier or fake or anything like that.

As a moderator here (luck me - I got this hot potato :)) I have to keep things in place and organized. The thread name is wrong (point taken - I will try to rename soon). Places for the correct posts must be observed and respected.

I am not against debunking any OU possible device, actually I think it is very healthy. Without critical thinking we are simply lost. Just non sense repeating the same statement is also not useful (aside from annoying).

I will for now unsay my "case closed" and will say "case open" because I will have to study this "cap wire hidden" further but this is not all.

Concerning the motor itself, my experiments and other (on the other thread) has demonstrated very good valuable progress and interesting effects. That by itself is worthy every effort to get to OU and abandon OIL depression. So nothing lost in researching, actually is fun.

Bias magnets are actually making a huge difference in output power and RPM increase, very interesting but you will only know if you do it yourself. That means you would have to spent a good amount of money and build this "fake" machine, right?

Look, it is always EASY to say things are impossible, they can't break the current known laws of physics or they are fake. The valuable path is the one taken with solid work, good research and a open mind EVEN IF YOU THINK IS IT NOT TRUE. That is a paradox that not many can accept. I am on that latter camp.

Even if you PROOF that that video is fake I will still reluctantly study it eliminating every possibility of falsifiability for acceptance of the argument. See? Not an easy job when one see all the possibilities to explain a fact! It will not be one little fact that will make me give up such a noble effort. I wish many here were like that to the end. I bet we would get a lot more done for humanity and for my kids.

cheers,

Fausto.
 

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #83 on: July 21, 2011, 07:04:44 PM »
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Offline scratchrobot

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #84 on: July 21, 2011, 07:38:32 PM »
@Wattsup & Plengo

Good points... thanks!

Offline Hope

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2011, 08:00:53 PM »
First more than hats off to you ALL for your sincere efforts. 


So some how he got hold of a wire that was beyond gauge 56  (which is the smallest commercially produced).  It carried current well beyond its rating and its stronger than any I have ever used?  WOW   what a fake??    It is the same principle as the pure magnetic motor shown by Green  (is that a fake too??)  and it also uses natural magnetic forces to cancel back EMF.  Why would this NOT work??   You should have put those ideas into your minds to make a motor you could believe in instead of nay saying this motor.    So even without a vortex this motor should be the MOST efficient that we have EVER seen but you don't credit it as that at all.  Then a total disregard is shown toward the link showing a PROVEN magnetic vortex effect that is easy to reproduce (I even used a secondary builders youtube proving it and not Greens Camelot motor)  What of these effects, even if you can't agree they are working in this motor here why can't we use these two principles and gain from them?  Just suspending a Greens vortex making ring above many high efficiency motors should create COP > 1.   Why don't we try these concepts instead of rushing past them?   You could have used the audio tract from Romero's walk around video and proved to yourself the motor never lost speed as it would with a battery attached.  But instead you declare here it was a battery concealed, and then try to fortify your statement with legal gibberish that is applied only by your argument as relevant.  Who knows if this motor is a fake or not, but at least the principles can be shown as the best ideas combined to date.  And you all are good people I know as we have all worked together for a long time on this project to reach OU.   Lets NOT throw out what is relevant with this design,  magnetic vortex action combined with motor efficiency.

Hope

Edited for human kindness
Off to Lynden, WA for a few days, see Days for Girls.org  and please if you can donate a bit to their great cause.     
Celeste their director addressed the African symposium and they changed national tradition not to "cut" marrying women any longer, which was a gross mutilation of their natural bodies.  Her new non profit org is helping women not to lose 7-9 days a month in solitude for their lives.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 09:02:31 PM by Hope »

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #85 on: July 21, 2011, 08:00:53 PM »
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Offline khabe

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2011, 05:07:15 PM »
A new hocus-pocus - "Arguments against Muller design"  :o
Main thread transmuted to just Muller Dynamo  ::)
Who was against Bill Muller ??? he never declared his dynamo runs self - some others did,
Miserable knack to wash off shame,
cheers,
khabe

 

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