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Author Topic: Arguments against Muller design  (Read 60263 times)

Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2011, 09:46:36 PM »

 Just pictures is not enough because they are tricking you.

The short videos do a better job showing that.

Fausto.


That is quite humorous... a video to prove or disprove a video! Is that not an oxymoron?

Nope, afraid wattsup's technique in capturing these JPGs using Naevious, virtual dud and then Snaggle is about as good as one can get. And this jpg evidence is collaborated by the running behavior and measurements of the machine, running on 3 volts, no RPM change when a load is applied, not the slightest change when loaded or unloaded, beyond belief, as NO vehicle has been put forward to explain this anomalous behavior.

Now try this on for size Do you believe a liar?  Romero stated quite clearly that the device is a fake. But then various people put forward the claim that this was a lie, in reality the machine is working as originally claimed!

But you can't have it both ways... either he lied that the device worked or he lied that it didn't work. All this establishes is that he is a liar.

Ron
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2011, 09:46:36 PM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2011, 12:32:40 AM »

That is quite humorous... a video to prove or disprove a video! Is that not an oxymoron?

Nope, afraid wattsup's technique in capturing these JPGs using Naevious, virtual dud and then Snaggle is about as good as one can get. And this jpg evidence is collaborated by the running behavior and measurements of the machine, running on 3 volts, no RPM change when a load is applied, not the slightest change when loaded or unloaded, beyond belief, as NO vehicle has been put forward to explain this anomalous behavior.

Now try this on for size Do you believe a liar?  Romero stated quite clearly that the device is a fake. But then various people put forward the claim that this was a lie, in reality the machine is working as originally claimed!

But you can't have it both ways... either he lied that the device worked or he lied that it didn't work. All this establishes is that he is a liar.

Ron

That's a great argument. First you destroy the possibility of being true, second you give more value to the "previous" picture than if the picture is indeed the true.

Look, on my short video (or series of pictures) one can see that there is no hidden wire. That by itself is enough evidence that there is no hidden wire. This is not a question IF Romero's machine is true or not. It is quiet irrelevant.

It is about if "this evidence" can be used as the proposed argument: there is or not hidden wires ON THOSE PICTURES.

If you search for OU like you just described you arguments against mine, oh boy, you will never find it. It is missing a lot more in you than you think.

Evidences are only good to their truthfulness. They do not speak of the whole but only of itself. If the pictures shown are in a aggregation not being consistent so it may be because they are, guess what, inconsistent. One picture only will not demonstrate the hidden wires. It can be many 3D view tricks of the mind here. You must look at them all so that you can really see it.

Now, the question is: Are you willing to really invest your time into this matter or just take the easy "sitting in my chair" and lets other decide for you?

At least I did my diligent work in demonstrating that in that second video there are no hidden "visible" wires anywhere.

Fausto.

Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2011, 01:23:07 AM »
snip

Look, on my short video (or series of pictures) one can see that there is no hidden wire. That by itself is enough evidence that there is no hidden wire. This is not a question IF Romero's machine is true or not. It is quiet irrelevant.

snip
Now, the question is: Are you willing to really invest your time into this matter or just take the easy "sitting in my chair" and lets other decide for you?

At least I did my diligent work in demonstrating that in that second video there are no hidden "visible" wires anywhere.

Fausto.

Fausto,

No, it does not "prove" any such thing. It merely means the segments you have chosen do not show hidden wires.

I have built at least two different versions of this dynamo and have tried nearly all the hair brained schemes presented on the list. The simple answer is none preformed in a manner shown in romereo's videos.

Ergo... it is either a hoax or romero is hiding the invention of the century.
Neither scenario would endear romero to me.

Ron
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2011, 01:23:07 AM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2011, 02:24:46 AM »
Fausto,

No, it does not "prove" any such thing. It merely means the segments you have chosen do not show hidden wires.

I have built at least two different versions of this dynamo and have tried nearly all the hair brained schemes presented on the list. The simple answer is none preformed in a manner shown in romereo's videos.

Ergo... it is either a hoax or romero is hiding the invention of the century.
Neither scenario would endear romero to me.

Ron

Oh good we are getting somewhere. Did you see my short videos? they show the cap clearly with no wires. How can the wires be there on the same video on a different segment of the video????

This is called: text out of context. Those single pictures "looks like" a wire. IF this is true it should have more pictures just like it on the same video, which there is none. It is the same as saying that ONLY ONE PICTURE with lots of photoshop filter to make it look like something else. I am not saying anyone manufactured anything, but I am saying those pictures are very misleading when looking at the WHOLE group of evidences. The whole group of pictures ARE NOT MATCHING, so I must allow doubt to this evidence and therefore look at it as not enough proof.

Now, if Romero's motor is fake or not is another question. People not being able to replicate does not help either in disproving validity. Not everyone can play soccer like "Pele" or "Ronaldinho" or "Massias", although many watch soccer and even play.

If this was in a court room this evidence would be full of doubt and the jury would not vote for it as more than circumstantial evidence, if not invalid.

I think I AM a real critic here. I have my belief system BUT I am only allowing evidence (including the ones I find on my experiments) be the judge of the reality I perceive.

Fausto.

Offline Artist_Guy

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2011, 03:15:31 AM »
Oh good we are getting somewhere. Did you see my short videos? they show the cap clearly with no wires. How can the wires be there on the same video on a different segment of the video????

This is called: text out of context. Those single pictures "looks like" a wire. IF this is true it should have more pictures just like it on the same video, which there is none. It is the same as saying that ONLY ONE PICTURE with lots of photoshop filter to make it look like something else. I am not saying anyone manufactured anything, but I am saying those pictures are very misleading when looking at the WHOLE group of evidences. The whole group of pictures ARE NOT MATCHING, so I must allow doubt to this evidence and therefore look at it as not enough proof.

Now, if Romero's motor is fake or not is another question. People not being able to replicate does not help either in disproving validity. Not everyone can play soccer like "Pele" or "Ronaldinho" or "Massias", although many watch soccer and even play.

If this was in a court room this evidence would be full of doubt and the jury would not vote for it as more than circumstantial evidence, if not invalid.

I think I AM a real critic here. I have my belief system BUT I am only allowing evidence (including the ones I find on my experiments) be the judge of the reality I perceive.

Fausto.

@Plengo:

I've been using, and also writing graphics software for well over a decade (almost 2). Filters, gamma corrections in particular as have been used almost exclusively for any closeups, do not introduce new wires into the equation, nor create them where they are not, they only compress or expand the dynamic range that is already there.

You say there is only one image about this, but there are about 3 unique time stamps (not the same angle) that I can find that show the same Wire X's in question there in umbrella plug territory.

If Mylow's thin lines, barely visible, were conclusive...how can wires going into the table be fiction? They are demonstrably not coil wires. You maintain they are coil wires?

It would be good to get on the same page about what you are maintaing are the facts with your short videos...

Tell me if I am correct in my interpretation here:

You are supposing that the two (black) wires leading in from lower leftscreen into the right and going near what looks like the cap, near the support rod are the same Wire X's in question, shown in the image you contest, which you can see for yourself in video #2, at 8m41s - Yes - No -

And...you are supposing those two wires which your short clip shows, -are the coil wires for the drive coil, next to the Wire X's in question, seen at the same time stamp, 8m41s?  - Yes - No -

You are supposing that they are not coil wires for the drive coil, but for the gen coil - Yes - No - yet, they are the ones we keep saying are Wires X? Yes - No ?

Thanks for additional information.

EDIT: Is your lone supposition with this short video only that no wires are seen going to the cap, which is something which ignores that the very placement of the rod (and also terminal block of a coil) obscure the view where they would -be seen- if not behind the rod?  The angle in that short of yours would preclude seeing the wires, given they are behind the rod.

The rod sits on the edge of the cap, you can't see the part where the wires are. What you call 99 percent visible is about 95 percent as to diameter (whatever portion the rod is of that)...

NOTE: in the image, the corresponding lines to each coil pair are shown going from bottom, to top match

Artist_Guy
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 09:01:34 AM by Artist_Guy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2011, 03:15:31 AM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2011, 03:44:15 AM »
snip...

Now, the question is: Are you willing to really invest your time into this matter or just take the easy "sitting in my chair" and lets other decide for you?

snip....
Fausto.

Over the years I have followed I_rons posts as he's involved himself in many different threads and experiments.

I maintain a high regard for I_rons attitude and aptitude in his research efforts, and know that he keeps an open mind until empirical evidence sways his opinion one way or another.

The least correct thing you could possibly infer about I_ron is that he is an armchair researcher, or that he lets the mob make his decisions for him.

He builds precision models, (which takes a lot of time, money and effort) and he willingly tries every possible experiment relating to a given subject, that others may suggest, or that he has conjured up himself.

I have always known him to share his findings, and to present his data in an open and transparent manner, whether it confims or contradicts a given expectation or theory.

Cheers

Offline Artist_Guy

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2011, 10:19:53 AM »
(snip

 One picture only will not demonstrate the hidden wires. It can be many 3D view tricks of the mind here. You must look at them all so that you can really see it.

Now, the question is: Are you willing to really invest your time into this matter
(snip)
Fausto.

I invested an hour or more looking at Video #2 for your other angles. I have more than just this.
 
Explain the red wire at the base of the threaded rod. Its two ends connect where, and where?

I'll tell you: one end connects up top to a point on the FWBR rail (easily shown). The other goes down into an upraised portion or slot in the umbrella cap.

Robert (AG)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2011, 10:19:53 AM »
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Offline Artist_Guy

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2011, 10:34:06 AM »
Did you see my short videos? they show the cap clearly with no wires. How can the wires be there on the same video on a different segment of the video????
Fausto.

@Fausto

I saw them, and knew them to be wrong the minute you posted them, but you have more than once said anything else would be deleted, so I stuffed the counterpoint back then (your 'case closed' post), and that's why I got grumpy in my post here earlier. Sorry about that.   

Anyhow to answer that question of yours up there:

It's easy, when they are blocked, by a rod, from the angle you have chosen as carefully as Romero did in the original video, to prevent our seeing them? You can't see what you think you don't see, since it's blocked by both a terminal block , and the rod.

See the sight line. See the shadow. The wires * in question * are behind the thing making the shadow, the rod.
 
 :(
Robert (AG)

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2011, 11:26:06 AM »
The 8m 40s capture from video 2 posted by Artistguy is IMO proof enough that Romero faked self-running. The Romero's of this world would be well advised not to underestimate the forensic skills of their fellow forum members!

Hoppy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2011, 11:26:06 AM »
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Offline Super God

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2011, 11:52:38 AM »
I think everyone here forgot that he ran the thing suspended in the air. That's good enough for me!

Offline Artist_Guy

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2011, 03:05:23 PM »
Those single pictures "looks like" a wire. IF this is true it should have more pictures just like it on the same video, which there is none.

(Snip)

The whole group of pictures ARE NOT MATCHING, so I must allow doubt to this evidence and therefore look at it as not enough proof.
(snip)

Fausto.

@Plengo
 :D

2 more hours...later. Here are multiple views, same wires. Tracing both black, and red wire X, per your specification.

What now?

You can say that the two wires in question are not attached to anything on the one end at the table hole...to say...a battery below...but you cannot say they are not there. Only where they go into the table is 'hidden' otherwise they hide in plain sight in the confusion.

Please explain Wire X Red and Wire X Black, and their need, and connections, if you disagree.  ???

AG

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2011, 03:05:23 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2011, 04:29:26 PM »
I think everyone here forgot that he ran the thing suspended in the air. That's good enough for me!


It would be good enough for me also IF he had showed all of the device.

What you have to look at is the top end of one rod that is never shown in the video. Why is it never shown?

Ron

Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2011, 04:32:58 PM »
snip

You can say that the two wires in question are not attached to anything on the one end at the table hole...to say...a battery below...but you cannot say they are not there. Only where they go into the table is 'hidden' otherwise they hide in plain sight in the confusion.

Please explain Wire X Red and Wire X Black, and their need, and connections, if you disagree.  ???

AG


Good work Robert, thanks for your research.

Then the answer to "where do the wires go", is in the way it runs, which is contrary to all the replications to date.

Ron

Offline i_ron

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2011, 04:51:24 PM »
Over the years I have followed I_rons posts as he's involved himself in many different threads and experiments.

I maintain a high regard for I_rons attitude and aptitude in his research efforts, and know that he keeps an open mind until empirical evidence sways his opinion one way or another.

The least correct thing you could possibly infer about I_ron is that he is an armchair researcher, or that he lets the mob make his decisions for him.

He builds precision models, (which takes a lot of time, money and effort) and he willingly tries every possible experiment relating to a given subject, that others may suggest, or that he has conjured up himself.

I have always known him to share his findings, and to present his data in an open and transparent manner, whether it confims or contradicts a given expectation or theory.

Cheers

Wow, made my day, thanks HT.

Funny thing is, the way things turn out is not my choice. I would love to build a device and have it work, "as advertised".

But starting with Garry Stanley and working up to Lawrence Rayburn to Thane Heins, I have come across certain anomalies that are not explained by their hypothesis.  When I have spoken up I have been attacked and maligned, called every thing from a know nothing, to a thief.

But I did speak up.

Thanks again for your recognition, and support.

Warm Regards

Ron

PS: not trail blazing here, just offering my support to wattsup, EM, AG and others.....


 

Offline wattsup

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Re: Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2011, 06:36:03 AM »
@All

Why is this thread entitled "Arguments against Muller design". There is no argument about the Muller design. There is an argument about Romero faking three videos, period. Actually it is no longer an argument but a fact. Why is Muller mentioned here? Even the other thread called "Muller Design". Should have been called "Romero Design". Why are you guys always confusing the two.

@Plengo

I can't believe I am reading what you are saying. You think I tricked those images. Never in a million years would I do that. Do you think I would risk my name here for a furty wheel. Wow. Why would I do that? Just think again please before you repeat such nonsense. This is not the way to fight your argument. You will need much more then that to go against so much proof. Word of advice. Don't bother and save yourself lots of unnecessary work for nothing because in the end, you will realize you are wrong and wonder why you wasted so much more time.

When @EM said about the same things you are saying, I again re-posted and re-explained to him and it is located here, and, he quickly understood where he was going wrong.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15571#msg15571

Artist-Guy has copies of images from @none here (the ones you removed) plus his own here;
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15618#msg15618

Video 3 is covered here:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15479#msg15479
then a little further down here;
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15491#msg15491

Please understand that if you do not have a youtube conversion program and if you are not using a software like VirtualDubMod, you are looking at the standard video. With VDM I have 30 frames per each second of Romeros' video to view. In can zooom in on one inch if needed. Those images are in about 3-4 frames, so you are talking about 1/10th of a second in youtube time. Romero must have looked at his Video 2 and 3 many times to make sure he did not show his funny X Wires but even he could not see them if he was just looking at it with the standard video players.

Go to the links above, look at the images. Each has a frame number. Just divide the frame number by 30 and you will have the youtube video seconds at which the frames were taken. Divide by 60 for minutes, etc. Maybe once you know that it will be more easy for you to see it.

When I say you cannot see it, I should specify cannot without paying extra attention to the actual small time frame. Just look at those images, then look at the video at frame/30. But first make sure you are looking at the same video. There is Video 1, 2 and 3.

wattsup

 

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