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Author Topic: Arguments against Muller design  (Read 60279 times)

Offline TommeyLReed

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Arguments against Muller design
« on: May 21, 2011, 04:02:05 PM »
First Law of Thermodynamics

The amount of energy that is present before and after work is the same (scientist say energy is conserved). For example, let's say you drop a ball. Scientists can measure the energy before, during, and after the fall. The amount of energy remains constant throughout the process. Likewise when an object is thrown or a spring released or something is burned, the energy can be measured. This is the reason behind the first law of thermodynamics, Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form to another; scientists have found that the amount of energy in a closed system remains constant.

The following set of statements are various ways of expressing the first law of thermodynamics:

* Energy is conserved.
* The amount of energy in the universe is constant.
* Energy can be neither created nor destroyed.
* There is no free lunch.
* It is impossible to build a machine that produces more energy than it uses (This type of machine is called a perpetual motion machine of the first kind.)

Second Law of Thermodynamics

During energy transfers, it might seem that energy does go away or become reduced. For example, a bouncing ball stops bouncing, a battery dies, or a car runs out of fuel. The energy still exists but it has become so spread out that it is essentially unavailable. Burning a piece of wood releases light and thermal energy (commonly called heat). The light and heat become dispersed and less useful. Another way to describe this process is to say the energy is concentrated in the wood (chemical energy), and becomes less concentrated in the forms of thermal and light energy.

Let's return to the frantic cat in the room with the puzzle. Although you might be able to find all the pieces of the puzzle after the cat's actions, you cannot put the puzzle completely back together. Some pieces have been bent, others torn, and some the cat, well, use your imagination. In other words, although the quantity of the puzzle remains the same, its quality has been compromised. This cat story is a rough analogy to the second law of thermodynamics.

The following set of statements are various ways of expressing the second law of thermodynamics:

* With each energy conversion from one form to another, some of the energy becomes unavailable for further use.
* Heat cannot flow from a cold object to a hot object on its own.
* It is impossible to convert heat energy into work with 100 percent efficiency.
* You cannot break even.
* It is impossible to build a machine that produces as much energy as it uses. (This type of machine is called a perpetual motion machine of the second kind.)
* The entropy of the universe tends to a maximum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline xenomorphlabs

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 04:19:55 PM »
Why can't anyone build this unit and work? I will tell you why, it won't work because you can not get more energy then what you have put in. Why would anyone think this simple unit would create more energy? We understand these law of energy, and yet some people want to believe in this free energy unit. I wish this to be true, but the theory's don't hold up with common sense......

You might wanna educate yourself on the numerous violations of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. In that context, reading Tom Bearden's literature will illustrate that.
If you wanna discuss devices that don`t violate the 2nd law, it is advisable to direct your attention to other forums that discuss ordinary mechanical devices.
There you also won't be "wasting" your energies.

A point where to start is your statement:

Quote
It is impossible to build a machine that produces as much energy as it uses

For a device to be overunity, it is not required that the device itself produces the energy. If you correctly look at an open system, then the additional energy is being put into it by the environment. That energy was already there, just you didn't have to pay for it. No violation of the law of conservation of energy at all. Examples are the often mentioned heat-pump, a system including a solar panel or a windmill.


Offline Pirate88179

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2011, 04:40:46 PM »
Energy in should always equal energy out, minus losses right?  But, consider that the energy in might be from some other "unknown" source.  Like solar for example.  We now know it is the sun but, if years ago we built a solar cell and input 0, and got 12 volts out, it would be amazing.

Possibly this device taps into other energy sources that would satisfy the 2nd law of themodynamics.  Same with the Joule Thief and the Stubblefield earth battery.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2011, 04:40:46 PM »
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Offline TommeyLReed

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 05:04:39 PM »
Very simple, prove it! Stop making claims or theory's, it just makes you look very foolish!

Offline Pirate88179

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 05:10:54 PM »
Very simple, prove it! Stop making claims or theory's, it just makes you look very foolish!

Ummm....there are many smart folks and very good replicators attempting to do just that.  Stand by is all I can say.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 05:10:54 PM »
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Offline TommeyLReed

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 05:26:18 PM »
That would be great, just will make them all to look like a fool. If anyone thinks that free energy is around the corner, they must have smoked too much weed. Everything is converted from one state to another, there is aways a lost in this conversion of energy. If you all think that a simple wheel with magnet being spin by a motor will create more energy, then your all dreaming too much. This simple wheel would have been built a long time ago, if that was the case. You don't have to be a electical engineer to see though this scam, it makes some of the overunity people look very stupid. I agree some are very smart on overunity, but where are they now?

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 05:29:05 PM »
Very simple, prove it! Stop making claims or theory's, it just makes you look very foolish!

You need prove that a solar panel or a windmill violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
Just read the literature.
Since this thread is for  builders mainly, feel free to continue your discussion
in the forum section called "2nd law violations" here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?board=25.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?board=26.0

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 05:29:05 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 05:30:54 PM »
That would be great, just will make them all to look like a fool. If anyone thinks that free energy is around the corner, they must have smoked too much weed. Everything is converted from one state to another, there is aways a lost in this conversion of energy. If you all think that a simple wheel with magnet being spin by a motor will create more energy, then your all dreaming too much. This simple wheel would have been built a long time ago, if that was the case. You don't have to be a electical engineer to see though this scam, it makes some of the overunity people look very stupid. I agree some are very smart on overunity, but where are they now?

Well, I have been using free energy for many years now so, what does that tell you?  See my Youtube videos if you do not believe me.  Have you built this device?  How is your replication coming along?  It is so easy to say it can't be done but much harder to prove that it can.

If you know for a fact it can't be done....why are you here?

Bill

Offline retrod

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2011, 05:36:48 PM »
That would be great, just will make them all to look like a fool. If anyone thinks that free energy is around the corner, they must have smoked too much weed. Everything is converted from one state to another, there is aways a lost in this conversion of energy. If you all think that a simple wheel with magnet being spin by a motor will create more energy, then your all dreaming too much. This simple wheel would have been built a long time ago, if that was the case. You don't have to be a electical engineer to see though this scam, it makes some of the overunity people look very stupid. I agree some are very smart on overunity, but where are they now?
What a troll! Such contempt for this project and all the researchers that are hard at work on this. Moderator where are you!

RD

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2011, 05:36:48 PM »
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Offline TommeyLReed

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2011, 05:39:09 PM »
Free energy from someone outlet? Lett's see you make enough energy to run your home, using what? Bio-mass, solar, gas generator, wind power or what ever. They all need some type of input energy, so they are not free are they? You also have a lost of input vs output of energy don't you? This muller is claiming more energy out then what is being put in, how insane does that sound?
Now that you put your foot in your mouth, please set a link to your free energy running your house.

Thank you..

Offline TommeyLReed

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2011, 05:42:19 PM »
Yeah i'm a troll, because I ask hard questions? If you all think this will work, please make me eat my words, I will even say i'm sorry for being so stupid! But nobody will, because you cant get more energy then what you put in to this muller magnet scam motor.....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2011, 05:42:19 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2011, 05:43:39 PM »
Free energy from someone outlet? Lett's see you make enough energy to run your home, using what? Bio-mass, solar, gas generator, wind power or what ever. They all need some type of input energy, so they are not free are they? You also have a lost of input vs output of energy don't you? This muller is claiming more energy out then what is being put in, how insane does that sound?
Now that you put your foot in your mouth, please set a link to your free energy running your house.

Thank you..

I told you to check out my Youtube videos (48 videos) which evidently you did not do.  Your mind is closed so, there is no hope for you.  I am sorry.  Again, why are you here?  Seriously,...why is that?  What do you hope to accomplish?

Bill

Offline Pirate88179

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2011, 05:44:58 PM »
Yeah i'm a troll, because I ask hard questions? If you all think this will work, please make me eat my words, I will even say i'm sorry for being so stupid! But nobody will, because you cant get more energy then what you put in to this muller magnet scam motor.....

And you "know" this because your exact replication did not work?  Is this correct?

Bill

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2011, 05:46:54 PM »
Yeah i'm a troll, because I ask hard questions? If you all think this will work, please make me eat my words, I will even say i'm sorry for being so stupid! But nobody will, because you cant get more energy then what you put in to this muller magnet scam motor.....

No, you are a troll because you insult other people calling them names and lack the ability to discuss scientific issues in a polite, calm manner.
This forum has Terms and Conditions. Most people here do actually adhere to them.

Offline Tudi

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Arguments against Muller design
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2011, 05:47:51 PM »
@TommeyLReed : you are just as my collegues, read the title of this forum and start laughing. They cannot see the tree behind the garden. Get fooled by words that do not match a content.

Just try to imagine this spinning device draws heat from the air and convert it into electricity.
Again :OU does not mean it creates energy from nowhere ! It does come from somewhere.

 

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