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Author Topic: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'  (Read 8775 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« on: May 20, 2011, 09:12:02 AM »
As per Newton's third law every action has equal and opposite reaction which conserves energy.   Over unity cannot be achieved unless reaction is made to help the action.  Go through the attachment to know how reaction can be made to help the action.  Reply me at
vineetkiran@yahoo.in

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Airstriker

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 01:16:41 PM »
First of all, welcome to our community !
I don't really get the electrical concept of yours (you didn't provide any theory behind it). Just changing the gap shouldn't make any difference. Need more info.

However, your "Mechanical analogy" looks very interesting. Indeed, by using the ropes the reactive force will exert on the outer edge of the smaller wheel, thus the reactive arm will become smaller and in this way the whole reactive moment of force (torque) also. Looks ingenious. Have you tried it in real life ?

As for the "Lever Analogy" - OH MY GOD!

Are you so smart or is it invented by somebody else ?

Can somebody else confirm what I see in it ?!

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 03:32:50 PM »
Mr.Airstriker!

Thanks for your comments. 

Regarding electrical concept of my first experiment, it is simply based on the attraction and repulsion properties of a magnet.  You may be well aware that any magnetic material retains magnetism even after removing the magnet used to magnetize it. This is known as residual magnetism which depends on hysteresis of particular material.   By reducing the gap and raising the speed of rotating magnet,  it can be made enter and pass the repulsive (residual) zone of the successive core. Please note that successive cores will have opposite magnetic fields.

Regarding "lever analogy",  instead of placing the weight W3 on an external support,  it can be simply lifted by using one more lever mechanism perpendicular to the plane.  By applying lever rules it can be mathematically (theoretically) proved that work done by oscillating plane is more than the energy input to the secondary lever.  No special experiment is required to prove this.

 Thanks

Vineet.K.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 03:32:50 PM »
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Offline Airstriker

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 03:51:28 PM »
No Mr. please ;)

I've analyzed the "lever analogy" again and I found one problem. When you apply a force to W3 (or use the support), W2 will start to fall - that's a fact. But...

1) If you use the support...because of the fact, that W2 and W3 are connected by the string, as W2 will fall, W3 will raise. When W3 raises, it will no longer stay on the support. Thus everything is gone.
2) If you apply external force (F) to W3... W2 will go down. But because W2 and W3 are connected, W3 will go up. Thus you end up with W3 movement. If W3 moves you have work (F*S). Again everything is gone.

If I got something wrong please correct me. Thanks in advance.

Julian

Offline Mr. M

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 05:15:57 PM »
1) If you use the support...because of the fact, that W2 and W3 are connected by the string, as W2 will fall, W3 will raise. When W3 raises, it will no longer stay on the support. Thus everything is gone.

(...)

If I got something wrong please correct me. Thanks in advance.

Technically, that's incorrect...

If W3 is sitting on the external support and the string connecting W2 to W3 is not taut then W2 will fall without W3 raising.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I do think that they'll reach the point of equilibrium... I'm just saying that stating "as W2 will fall, W3 will raise" is inaccurate depending on the length of the string connecting W2 to W3. :P

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 05:15:57 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 06:25:16 AM »
Weight W3 would raise only if relative motion exists between weights W2 and W3. Since entire plane moves as one unit, there is no chance of W3 raising w.r.t. W2.
It might only swing like pendulum due to change in position of the horizontal supporting bar.  Swinging can be taken care of suitably.

Since this is a fairly simple experiment kindly conduct the experiment yourself before making any comments.

Thanks
Vineet.K.

Offline Airstriker

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 03:42:18 AM »
Weight W3 would raise only if relative motion exists between weights W2 and W3. Since entire plane moves as one unit, there is no chance of W3 raising w.r.t. W2.
It might only swing like pendulum due to change in position of the horizontal supporting bar.  Swinging can be taken care of suitably.

Since this is a fairly simple experiment kindly conduct the experiment yourself before making any comments.

Thanks
Vineet.K.

Hi Vineet,

Indeed you're right. I knew it at first but then, when playing with WM2D simulations I for some reason forgot about the fact that W2 and W3 are one moving entity. Again I must say: ingenious !
Can you make a drawing with the additional pendulum you mentioned ? I cannot imagine it at the moment. I will try to do some real experiments as soon as possible.
Anyway, these two mechanical concepts of yours are the best ones I've seen so far.

PS. Forgive me asking twice but have you tried the solution with two wheels in real experiment ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 03:42:18 AM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 03:51:02 PM »
Hi Julian,


The pendulum effect comes into picture only  when the weight W3 is free to swing.   When it is placed well on the support it won’t  swing.   Remember that  for any lever mechanism  lever arm at the center is zero and displacement  at the center is zero.  The whole idea behind the experiment itself is transferring  part of weight W2 to the center using another weight W3.


  I have verified the ‘wheels’ experiment, but only with ordinary methods which I hesitate to reveal to the scientific community of 21st century standards.   I don’t have  a well established laboratory to verify it methodically.

Offline forest

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 05:29:49 PM »
Lenz rule apply only to the same energy form. :D Convert energy into other form....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 05:29:49 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 05:43:57 AM »
This is just a repeating  comment raised by earlier members.   My sincere advise to you is that conduct the experiment yourself.   Considering the height of the fulcrum you cannot make plane vertical to the ground.  To achieve this you may have to turn the entire earth itself by 90 degrees (joke).

Regarding your second comment, it is obvious that when solid lever arm is used, lever rules are applicable on all points of the lever.   The idea of using string is to transfer force without getting lever rules applied and also to get flexibility in motion.

 

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 06:28:06 AM »
Very Good!

With your comment 2 of para 1 (pivot moving with plane) you are coming closer towards reality. The mass would go the other side of pivot only if you use short string and W3 is not well placed on the support and also if the plane moves far too downwards.

Now just forget about external support,  find out the exact gravitational center of the plane and place your support there.  Now if W3 is made to rest on the support(ie., support is raised like car jack to nullify W3),  entire plane would move along with pivot and support keeping all positions fixed and pivot remains perpendicular to the support at all positions of the plane.  In this case weight W3 will not move to the other side of pivot unless it is free to slide on the support.  You have to prevent both W3 and support from sliding. Keeping support at the center is not going to affect the lever effect since lever arm at the center is zero.   Don't allow the plane to go too far down.  Limit its movement to some extent. Keep in mind that the experiment is dependent on vertical component of gravity vector.

Any way thanks for applying your mind and sparing your time in conducting the experiment.

Thanks

Vineet.K.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 04:37:13 PM by vineet_kiran »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 06:28:06 AM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: over unity by 'Reaction helping action'
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 04:45:18 AM »
yyyyyyy
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 02:38:00 PM by vineet_kiran »

 

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