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Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?  (Read 914366 times)

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #555 on: July 03, 2011, 05:56:46 AM »
  Yesterday and today, I have performed a simple experiment described below, and I wonder if others have tried this.  This link was given on the Romero thread (which I have not read all of-- getting long!).
In our discussion above, a critical element is the bifilar-wound coil -- and the experiment below is related:

Quote
[ http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm ]
Things you'll need:
2 - 16 penny nails  [I used 2- 10 penny nails]
about 3 feet of magnet wire - (20 to 28 gage)
1 - D Cell battery

4 - Paper Clips
Wind the first nail with 100 turns of magnet wire.  Leave about 3 inches of wire on both ends of the winding.

Wind the second nail with 100 turns of magnet wire, but in the following way.  Cut two equal length wires about 12" long each.  Holding the two wires together, begin turning 50 parallel turns of magnet wire around the nail.  When you have finished winding the coil trim off the excess wire so that there are 3" of wire on both ends of the coil.  Take the two inside leads from each end and twist them together.  Remember to clean the ends of the magnet wire so they can make an electrical connection.
This is what they should look like: (click on the image for a closer view)
[attached]

Two Electromagnets
Now connect the battery to the end leads of the single wound nail.  This will energize the coil and cause the nail to become magnetic.  Now pick up as many paper clips with the nail as you can.

OK, connect the battery to the ends of the bifilar wound coil.  Now pick up as many paper clips as you can with this electromagnet.

The same amount of voltage, from the same battery, produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil.  This is just one of the many techniques Nikola Tesla used to make his inventions highly efficient.

  My windings on two 10-penny nails had a total of 40 windings on each, once a simple winding and once bifilar, as he describes the experiment above.
  I checked that the currents were close to the same, using a power supply with digital read-out.

   My results --
1.  Simple coil picked up 4 small paper clips; and separate expt, 3 small steel screws.
2.  BIFILAR coil picked up 5 small paper clips; and separate expt, 4 small steel screws.

Same D-cell battery...

  I like experiments that work, and this was straightforward.
Now --
1.  Why does the bifilar-wound coil pick up more than the simple-winding?
Both have the same power source, the same total number of windings, essentially the same current...  should have the same B field... I think.
But that is not the case, experimentally.

2.  Can we quantify this?  using a hall-probe, for example, to actually measure the two B fields so we can compare them Quantitatively.  The author wrote
Quote
produces twice as much energy in the bifilar wound coil as in the single wound coil
  I think we can do a little better in quantifying the result, in terms of measured strength of B fields in the two cases.  But his write-up is  a good start!

3.  Has any one seen this result discussed as to WHY there is a difference?  or better yet, a publication in a journal on this subject??

   As always, I'd appreciate comments on this experimental result and these questions.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2011, 06:24:04 AM by JouleSeeker »

nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #556 on: July 03, 2011, 07:24:51 AM »
[...]
3.  Has any one seen this result discussed as to WHY there is a difference?  or better yet, a publication in a journal on this subject??

As always, I'd appreciate comments on this experimental result and these questions.


you'll find some better quantified results here, Steven:

  link--> http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf


hope this helps
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Pirate88179

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #557 on: July 03, 2011, 02:20:15 PM »
Dr. Jones:

Remember that the original JT circuit was bifilar and so was the Stubblefield coil.  I have wound a number of both of them and I can say that they did it that way for a reason.  I do not know that reason but, since Stubblefield was a sort of buddy with Tesla, who also used bifilar windings, that tells me there is something to it.

I also think it is possible to wind 2 bifilar windings on a single toroid on opposite sides of the toroid.  I have not as of yet done this but plan on it in the near future.  The Jeanna circuit uses 3 windings on a single toroid but none are bifilar but this grew out of the MK1 windings in the JT topic.  I am going back to bifilar because I believe it gives some unique properties that can not be achieved any other way.

Bill

neptune

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #558 on: July 03, 2011, 04:47:00 PM »
@Jouleseeker . I too tried the bifilar electromagnet experiments a couple of days ago , see the Muller thread . The nail pickup tests are crude to say the least , and results vary from one experiment to the next .What I can definitely say , is that bifilar ALWAYS picks up more nails , varying between say 25% extra , and up to 3 times as many . I found that a quadrifilar wound coil was better than a normal wind , but not better than a bifilar . If you get time , please try a quadfilar . It is hard to see how a difference in the capacitance or inductance of the wind would have an effect on a DC circuit , and we have been told that field strength is proportional to Amp-turns . Somewhere , I read a theory that with less inductance , The "rise time" of the field was quicker , more like hitting the core with a hammer than a gradual push , resulting in a stronger field .What do you think ?

xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #559 on: July 03, 2011, 07:39:20 PM »

1.  Why does the bifilar-wound coil pick up more than the simple-winding?


It has more inductance. Thus stronger magnetic field for same amount of current.

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #560 on: July 04, 2011, 12:29:35 AM »

you'll find some better quantified results here, Steven:

  link--> http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/VOLTGN.pdf


hope this helps
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Helps a lot!  I read the reference and found it well done.   This should be published (IMO) in a technical journal!  What an exciting result.  I've attached the last part of the report here for easy reference.

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #561 on: July 04, 2011, 12:37:36 AM »
Thanks for comments!

@Jouleseeker . I too tried the bifilar electromagnet experiments a couple of days ago , see the Muller thread . The nail pickup tests are crude to say the least , and results vary from one experiment to the next .What I can definitely say , is that bifilar ALWAYS picks up more nails , varying between say 25% extra , and up to 3 times as many . I found that a quadrifilar wound coil was better than a normal wind , but not better than a bifilar . If you get time , please try a quadfilar . It is hard to see how a difference in the capacitance or inductance of the wind would have an effect on a DC circuit , and we have been told that field strength is proportional to Amp-turns . Somewhere , I read a theory that with less inductance , The "rise time" of the field was quicker , more like hitting the core with a hammer than a gradual push , resulting in a stronger field .What do you think ?

Thanks for your experimental results, Neptune.  Very interesting that different tries give different results, with bifilar B-field strength always greater than single-wound. 

@Neptune and @Xee2:  Note that in the report posted above, with actual measurements of inductance in the two windings, the inductances are nearly the same:
208 and 205 uH. 
So I don't think that a small variation in inductance is what is causing this large observed difference in B-field strength.

Actually (Xee2), the single-wound had the higher L (so your explanation appears to fail).

@Pirate: 
Quote
I am going back to bifilar because I believe it gives some unique properties that can not be achieved any other way.

Bill

I'm inclined to agree, based on the empirical results we're seeing! 
Lot's to understand in this simple experiment (above).

frankly

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #562 on: July 04, 2011, 05:40:18 AM »
Hello all. It has been a few years since I entered here but I see the whole game is still afoot, and only now, when someone shows the fact that energy from a battery, when applied to both ends of a core at once, produces a stronger magnetic field, do you begin to question whether you might have missed something really, really important.

Indeed, you have.

The answer to your present quandry lies in the core. At the core.

Tesla used, not only bifilar winds and such, he also used an entirely different energy signature.

This was derived from, first, a homopolar generator and then, from a DC generator based upon the same principles as the operation of the Homopolar.

Also, Tesla utilised condensors. NOT capacitors. They are two very different things.

A condensor can best be described as an element which absorbs and releases amperage. Lots of it. Quickly.

This allowed his devices to ring quite differently than with voltage alone, which you will get with capacitors.

What the present circuit is touching upon is energy amplification. However, without any understanding of exactly what energy is, you will never catch your tail.

I know this sounds abrasive. Coming from my perspective, I mean it. I posted some things here a while back, in another thread and was shouted down. These have been deleted I see.

Now, years later, the thoughts of the many are beginning to come to where I was then.

The "Rotating Magnetic Field" Tesla utilised was not a mechanical device. Rather, it was an area of polarisation in a core.

In doing so, a coil in proximity received the signature and converted the magnetic flux into energy as if a solid magnet passed by.

However, with the present geometry, all you will get is Transient Spike conversion.

I have been trying for years to explain this simple thing to people, to no avail. Perhaps now, there are ears to hear?

xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #563 on: July 04, 2011, 05:56:22 AM »

Actually (Xee2), the single-wound had the higher L (so your explanation appears to fail).


I do not have an inductance meter so I can not check this. If the bi-filar coil does not have a higher inductance then this is indeed a mystery.



xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #564 on: July 04, 2011, 07:16:13 AM »
@ JouleSeeker

Is this how you have the bifilar windings connected?


neptune

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #565 on: July 04, 2011, 01:48:28 PM »
@Xee . My bifilar winding was as per your diagram .

ramset

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #566 on: July 04, 2011, 02:19:16 PM »
Frankly
Quote;
a coil in proximity received the signature and converted the magnetic flux into energy as if a solid magnet passed by.

However, with the present geometry, all you will get is Transient Spike conversion.

I have been trying for years to explain this simple thing to people, to no avail. Perhaps now, there are ears to hear?

Sir
Perhaps you can expound upon the proper technique [geometry et al]?

That would be very nice....................

And we're all trying to be much Nicer theses days  ;D
Welcome back!

Chet
PS
And reguarding the "Tesla Condensor" info,
as Johny Carson used to say,
"I did not Know that"
Thank you

dimbulb

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #567 on: July 04, 2011, 03:57:43 PM »
Frankly;
You need to be specific.
What homopolar motor/generator, condenser, core, information reference.
Tesla had so many. This thread has specific information that could be reproduced.
You say you tried before people slammed you. If you want to make a point
then do it with fact.
 

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #568 on: July 04, 2011, 04:33:50 PM »
@Xee . My bifilar winding was as per your diagram .

Mine also.

I agree with dimbulb and Ramset, Frankly -- please be specific with references; interested in what you have to say if you will please be clear.

Quote
Frankly;
You need to be specific.
What homopolar motor/generator, condenser, core, information reference.
Tesla had so many. This thread has specific information that could be reproduced.



xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #569 on: July 04, 2011, 05:10:53 PM »
THE SIMPLISTIC VIEW OF PROBLEM:
The current flows through all loops of coil in both circuits, thus each loop of coil has the same amount of current flowing through it in both circuits. Current flows through loops in same direction in both circuits. Since magnetic field is result of current flow, it should be the same for both circuits. Obviously the simplistic view is missing something.

LESS SIMPLISTIC VIEW OF PROBLEM:
Inductance of coil is caused by the inductive coupling between the loops. The larger the inductance of the coil is, the more energy is stored in the magnetic field of the coil. The magnetic field is created while current is increasing in the coil (when power is first connected) and remains until power is removed. Normally, there is a direct relation between inductance and magnetic field strength. Changing winding configuration changes coupling between loops and thus changes inductance of coil and thus changes magnetic field strength. Steady state current through coil is set by coil resistance and is independent of inductance of coil (inductance only effects current while the current is increasing). Obviously, this view is also missing something.





« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 05:55:51 PM by xee2 »