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Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?  (Read 914335 times)

SkyWatcher123

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #495 on: June 27, 2011, 12:15:38 AM »
Hi folks, I'm trying out a 6 filar secondary with this circuit and testing out different wiring setups.
Hi allcanadian, very, very well said, though I would rethink the term persons as that is the term the manipulators use to call the fictional human being from birth.
Hi Stiffler, So I would ask then, how is that working out, your quote, "I always thought the definition of the American Dream was the ability to work for something and gain in return, not to have it all handed to you, can not understand where incentive and motivation would ever come from if you were assured of a few taking care of the masses."
As we can see, when a culture of human beings does not share all their time, energy, labor and ideas freely and expects a reward or selfish gain, well I can see the rewards we reap and that is more and more dictatorial government and systems that mirror our thinking or conditioned thinking at this point.
So we get worthless ink paper, so that a few can steal our time, energy, labor and ideas and place the majority of the so called gain in their control.
Sure sounds like that dream is working, though it has backfired and is working for an elite few. Be cautious of what you wish for, as if it is not for the good of all, this is what happens.
Cause and effect.
This is not political or scientific, this is spiritual and spiritual knowledge carries the highest wisdom.
peace love light
tyson ;)

hartiberlin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #496 on: June 27, 2011, 12:23:01 AM »
P.S: Congratulation on the new born baby Dr. Jones and family !

P.P.S: When tuning the circuit we tested today at Per-Johan´s place, I saw,
that it works like a Joule Ringer circuit.
Changing the Base current pot just changes the frequency of the
Spikes and the waveforms looks very simular to the waveforms of a
JouleRinger.

The 3rd coil on the core is the easiest way to get rid of the different DC level problems
when you want to feedback the output to the input.

Without the 3rd coil we tried to use the FWBR directly parallel at the emitter coil
and there it charged up a 2200uF to about 5 Volts, but you can´t feed this back to the input
directly cause otherwise you short out one diode of the FullWaveBrdigeRéctifier .

So the easiest part to work around this is to put a third coil around the core
and use this to extract the energy from the circuit.
Then you can also easily feed it back to the input,
cause you have no DC level problems.

Regards, Stefan.


hartiberlin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #497 on: June 27, 2011, 12:30:42 AM »
Here is again the circuit diagram from the video
for those that can not watch the video.

Regards, Stefan.

nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #498 on: June 27, 2011, 01:55:40 AM »
Steven

here's the initial data for my ongoing logging of a supply cell voltage on my latest SJ1 variant test (schematic posted on 22nd June, post #427)

as you can see, the cell terminal voltage (green trace) has been increasing for nearly 120 hours, so far, since this particular run started (around 2am on 22nd June)

the circuit is supplied by two AAA NiMH cells in a reasonable state of charge - i'm logging the terminal voltage of one cell, the other cell is also increasing in voltage at a similar rate

at the moment it looks to follow my earlier SJ1 variant cell voltage results i posted a couple of weeks back

the test will need to run for at least another few days to see if it's the same battery 'relaxation' effect seen with the earlier circuit

the previous results showed the battery voltage increase peaking after approximately 190 hours continuous operation, so that is the target for this circuit to beat!

(BTW  i eventually lowered the logger a few inches, to be at the same height as the DUT near the floor. and that brought the two temperature readings closer - although for about a further day the core temperature was still slightly less than the 'ambient')

as before, i'll keep you updated with developments


the possibility to have access to some full-calorimetry equipment is very encouraging!  i hope that proves acceptable with your contact

i'm sure you'll get plenty of ideas for controlling the run - i'll throw in the possibilities of either having a magnetic reed switch holding off connection between DUT & supply cap until you remove an external magnet (assuming suitable materials & distances) - or a tilt-switch which would just need two distinct orientations of the calorimeter - 'load' & 'run' (assuming test gear can be 'rotated')

it's possible to get stand-alone micro-loggers which might possibly fit alongside the DUT, within the calorimeter - data can be downloaded back to a PC via USB afterwards

hope this helps


thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 02:29:17 AM by nul-points »

jmmac

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #499 on: June 27, 2011, 01:14:19 PM »
Jaime -- use of an optocoupler is a good idea.  Awaiting your result with the resistor(s) added... for comparison with a JT-type circuit.

Professor,

As you requested, i tested the optocoupler version with an added resistor between capacitor plus and led anode. I tested 3 setups: with R=0 Ohm; R=22 Ohm ; R= 68 Ohm. The led brightness is almost the same in the 3 setups, i almost can't see a difference. The circuit was tested without multimeter or scope connected and with the pulse generator electrically separated. The pulses had a frequency of around 50Hz and duration of around 540ns.

I made 3 measurements for each setup letting the cap discharge from 2.50v to 2.00v. I got the following average Pin:

R=0 Ohm   : Pin = 0.585 uW
R=22 Ohm : Pin = 0.578 uW
R=68 Ohm : Pin = 0.575 uW

poynt99

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #500 on: June 27, 2011, 02:26:10 PM »
jmmac,

Bravo to you for demonstrating the fact that these LED's require next to no power to illuminate!

.99

forest

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #501 on: June 27, 2011, 03:35:52 PM »
I think you know that leds produce nice amount of voltage and not so nice current when pointed directly to sun light (even if sun is not visible). At this level of current measured you have to take it into consideration even with artificial dim light around led.
I have easily got 1.4V from one clear yellow LED pointed directly to sun hidden behaind clouds in rainy day.

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #502 on: June 27, 2011, 04:12:13 PM »
@Skywatcher, agreed.

Thank you, Stefan:
P.S: Congratulation on the new born baby Dr. Jones and family !

P.P.S: When tuning the circuit we tested today at Per-Johan´s place, I saw,
that it works like a Joule Ringer circuit.
Changing the Base current pot just changes the frequency of the
Spikes and the waveforms looks very simular to the waveforms of a
JouleRinger.

The 3rd coil on the core is the easiest way to get rid of the different DC level problems
when you want to feedback the output to the input.

Without the 3rd coil we tried to use the FWBR directly parallel at the emitter coil
and there it charged up a 2200uF to about 5 Volts, but you can´t feed this back to the input
directly cause otherwise you short out one diode of the FullWaveBrdigeRéctifier .

So the easiest part to work around this is to put a third coil around the core
and use this to extract the energy from the circuit.
Then you can also easily feed it back to the input,

cause you have no DC level problems.

Regards, Stefan.

This is NP's approach as well -- using a third coil to extract energy from the circuit, and feed it back into the input.   Hope to hear more results!

Thanks for your continued work and observations, NP! 

@Jaime -- interesting, and note that the power did not go up as you had predicted with the addition of resistor...  Of course, my goal [to be brief] is to determine whether or not a circuit involving a magnetic coil can produce Pout/Pin > 1.  There is no magnetic coil in your test, but the results regarding LED lighting are nonetheless interesting.



@all --  I heard back from Prof H, my friend with the calorimeters --
Quote
If we can put everything into the calorimeter except some wires extending to the outside and switch it on after it has thermally equilibrated, we can measure the signal and correct for the time constant of the calorimeter. It is better to have good thermal contact, but not necessary as long as we have good contact on some part of the device. The calorimeter measures thermal power, but that can be integrated to give total energy.

So it appears he is warming to my request to use his calorimeter...    At the same time, I congratulate and encourage the efforts at a self-running device! 

Thanks for the ideas regarding turning the device on and off, NP.  You see that one can have thin wires leading to the device, only to turn it on and off.  I like your idea of a gravity-switch; clever.

I'm quite sure that Prof H will allow more than one test in his sensitive calorimeter, now.
And this should be available for further tests as we learn more.  Of course, I'm hopeful that one or more of the circuits now being discussed will demonstrate OU...  that is the goal. 

Along with getting the "empowerment" out to the public in a scaled-up device!  (PS -- I do not seek the "American dream" if that dream is to get wealthy via some globalist profit-motive-control-freak corporation while humanity is screwed.  IMHO, some governments now seem focused-first on protecting  the profits of big corporations and banks.  Sometimes I wonder if the latter are not in fact in de facto control of those governments... so that government-enforcement methods are in fact applied to protect the profits of big Oil, big Banks, Monsanto, Halliburton, big Pharma, and so on. )

Prof. H states that the cavity in his calorimeter is about the size of a D-cell battery.  Please consider sending your "best" device for testing in this cavity...  and designing it to fit in this volume, and to accept power from one of two standard capacitors (which I will provide.)  One with higher C than the other; high enough so that the voltage drop will be fairly small during the course of the run... (I'm open to better ideas, as always.)

Quote
1.  Control experiment -- also to calibrate the energy in the physical capacitor =
     CapIn + R, no LED, and just let the Cap drain to a ~zero volts.  At the few-mV level, the energy left in the cap is negligible...
    E = 1/2 CV**2...  and that equation should give an energy comparable to that measured in the calorimeter CM...
   
2.  Next, we drop the DUT into the CM and let 'er run, and measure the TOTAL Poutput...

dimbulb

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #503 on: June 27, 2011, 05:19:17 PM »
A single toroid can put out an interesting flow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMLop6MIwUU&

one person says output is linear and another sees the ring as a rotational field moving straight line.
some say both I am glad it is observable.


for example a portable radio set inside a microwave oven should not pick up a transverse wave.

the import of this post is what is observable ?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 06:30:00 PM by dimbulb »

jmmac

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #504 on: June 27, 2011, 05:45:06 PM »
@Jaime -- interesting, and note that the power did not go up as you had predicted with the addition of resistor...  Of course, my goal [to be brief] is to determine whether or not a circuit involving a magnetic coil can produce Pout/Pin > 1.  There is no magnetic coil in your test, but the results regarding LED lighting are nonetheless interesting.

Professor,

Power should go up for the same led brightness which was not what happened with my tests. Of course power will come down if i add a resistor in series with the led and do not change the rest, but the led will be less bright.

This test was only meant to show that these leds light up with very little power and so, the power inputs that we have obtained with the coil circuits don't show much by themselves.

Before i used the optocoupler (which doesn't allow me to make a coil circuit with low power input) i made 2 circuits with coils (one with a bipolar transistor and another with a mosfet) and both consumed around 1uW (should go down to 0.6uW if i remove the multimeter). The reason i introduced the optocoupler was because you suggested that the pulse generator was giving energy to the circuit, which doesn't seem the case acording to the results with the optocoupler.

I'm glad there is a good possibility of using the calorimeter, i put my money on that method :)

Jaime

PS: Regarding the procedure with the calorimeter, will it measure the power converted to light by the led? Using a diode would ensure all the power is converted to heat.
Can there be wires comming from the circuit to the outside of the calorimeter?

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #505 on: June 27, 2011, 11:52:01 PM »
Professor,
[snip]
I'm glad there is a good possibility of using the calorimeter, i put my money on that method :)

Jaime

PS: Regarding the procedure with the calorimeter, will it measure the power converted to light by the led? Using a diode would ensure all the power is converted to heat.
Can there be wires comming from the circuit to the outside of the calorimeter?

Yes, even light will be captured in the closed calorimeter and converted to heat.
There may be THIN wires from circuit to environment... this is not a problem.

@Forest - good point.  LED placed in light will produce a voltage.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 12:24:21 AM by JouleSeeker »

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #506 on: June 28, 2011, 04:37:41 AM »
@Laneal -- I built the circuit you suggested, attached LEFT.

For comparison, I show Xee2's circuit RIGHT.

I re-built the Xee2 circuit with new components, so that I could implement your mods (left) and make comparisons.     But I used 3Mohms instead of 2Mohoms, and a 3.3mF cap.

As I noted previously, the Xee2-circuit (like the sj1 circuit) shows a "re-brightening effect" -- and I think this is an interesting effect:

1.  Stage 1, the green LED glows brightly at first (3.13V) but dims rapidly, essentially off at 1.674V .

2.  Off or about 4 seconds, then

3.  The LED comes back on again, and now the power consumption is way down.

In stage 1, the Pinput measured by the cap/time method is about 1400 uW.
In stage 3, the  Pinput measured by the cap/time method is about 8 uW, for this build.

I find this dramatic off-rebrighten effect with LARGE change in power consumption to be very interesting.  I can't explain it yet. 

Now, the Laneal mod, shows Pinput as:

1.6V to 1.5V in 68 sec => 7.4uW, about the same as the Xee2 version

xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #507 on: June 28, 2011, 04:57:47 AM »

1.  Stage 1, the green LED glows brightly at first (3.13V) but dims rapidly, essentially off at 1.674V .


With Vin = 3.13 volts you are driving the LED directly from the battery/capacitor through the collector coil. This is equivalent to putting the LED directly on the battery and there is no current limiting except for the LED. When Vin drops to below the LED turn on voltage, then the LED is only turning on when the magnetic field of the collector coil collapses.




nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #508 on: June 28, 2011, 07:26:11 AM »
 
With Vin = 3.13 volts you are driving the LED directly from the battery/capacitor through the collector coil. This is equivalent to putting the LED directly on the battery and there is no current limiting except for the LED. When Vin drops to below the LED turn on voltage, then the LED is only turning on when the magnetic field of the collector coil collapses.


i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply


WRT  Forest's comment about the 'solar' power characteristic of LEDs:
i've used LEDs as a supply source for v. low-powered circuits in the past and they will only provide input when they are connected with a particular polarity (ie. forward biased wrt the supply rail polarity - as in xee2's example)

for example, you'll notice from all my SJ1 variants posted here, that i always have the LED reverse-biased wrt the supply rail polarity - this way the LED is never providing additional supply as an optical source (and incidentally, neither will it experience 'direct drive' from the source if the supply voltage is increased greater than the LED 'turn-on' voltage)


for circuits which DO have the LED in the same polarity sense as the supply then the tests results can be confirmed with some test runs either in a suitably darkened room,  or with the LED suitably covered

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #509 on: June 28, 2011, 05:39:09 PM »


i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply


WRT  Forest's comment about the 'solar' power characteristic of LEDs:
i've used LEDs as a supply source for v. low-powered circuits in the past and they will only provide input when they are connected with a particular polarity (ie. forward biased wrt the supply rail polarity - as in xee2's example)

for example, you'll notice from all my SJ1 variants posted here, that i always have the LED reverse-biased wrt the supply rail polarity - this way the LED is never providing additional supply as an optical source (and incidentally, neither will it experience 'direct drive' from the source if the supply voltage is increased greater than the LED 'turn-on' voltage)


for circuits which DO have the LED in the same polarity sense as the supply then the tests results can be confirmed with some test runs either in a suitably darkened room,  or with the LED suitably covered

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Excellent points, Xee2 and NP...  especially this (NP):

Quote
i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply

Last evening I was re-checking the waveforms.  Xee2 circuit at 3+ volts shows no circuit pulsing, and direct LED lighting is confirmed.  Pulsing starts at lower voltage, around 1.6V in my build.

OTOH, sj1 circuit always shows pulsing when operating, and the waveform has a complicated high-frequency pattern, typically over 1 MHz.

Thanks again.