Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ? (Read 920577 times)

forest · « **Reply #450 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:10:50 PM »

Btw. do you have a feeling that something is wrong with all simulations ?

1. At start occur strange spike of energy
2. Final result sometimes depends on which time of computation data is presented to user; for example if from starting point or from some time later (even 0.01ms later)

lanenal · « **Reply #451 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:19:09 PM »

Quote from: forest on June 23, 2011, 04:10:50 PM

Btw. do you have a feeling that something is wrong with all simulations ?

1. At start occur strange spike of energy
2. Final result sometimes depends on which time of computation data is presented to user; for example if from starting point or from some time later (even 0.01ms later)

Thanks for the upload, will take a look when I get to my LTSpice.
The spike is probably by reason of cap and the ideal voltage source, and for #2, I don't know, that would be quite easy to fix. It seems to me, when you simulate a long time, and only capture the last moment, the whole simulation would still start from the very beginning and take the same amount of work to finish.

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #452 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:41:42 PM »

Laneal -- I see, I will try your "top circuit" later today, grand-child permitting.

Would you check your SIM -- will it allow LED to light up with 5uW input power? (Xee2's circuit, for example -- straightforward circuit to test.)

xee2 · « **Reply #453 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:51:41 PM »

Quote from: lanenal on June 23, 2011, 09:49:57 AM

my LTSpice simulation

You have gotten really good at spice. I did not realize LTspice had coupled coils. Can you recommend a good site for tutorial?

EDIT: I like your 2N2222 circuit. It should be very efficient. But, looking at the plots it seems that input current is larger than the diode current so I do not think it will self-run. Am I missing something?

lanenal · « **Reply #454 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:16:03 PM »

Quote from: xee2 on June 23, 2011, 04:51:41 PM

You have gotten really good at spice. I did not realize LTspice had coupled coils. Can you recommend a good site for tutorial?

EDIT: I like your 2N2222 circuit. It should be very efficient. But, looking at the plots it seems that input current is larger than the diode current so I do not think it will self-run. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Xee -- it is partly by reason that I was not very good at building, but I am getting better slowly. You have done a lot of good experiments to inspire many here.

I mainly used the help system, and played a little with the example circuits come with it. The "K L0 L1 0.9" directive is introduced not too long ago, it is documented somewhere in the system.

I agree with you, according to the simulation, no self-run is possible. Is it ever possible with traditional theory?

@Professor, will do some simulation when I get to my LTSpice.

dimbulb · « **Reply #455 on:** June 24, 2011, 02:10:13 AM »

Congradulations on new baby. miracle of life OU

A fast way to measure this output in temperature is to fasten an LM35 temp sensor to the resistor
with a drop of epoxy. The LM35 is linear and should'nt matter what waveform. Quantitative
the input current needs to bring the sensor up over ambient.

Leds are relatively cool and not as directly related to work as the heat of a pure resistive load.
traditionally light bulbs were resistive and ac was simple sine.
The type of pulses being output will not be measured accurately on most digital multimeters
Using a better method will greatly improve the errors.

Dr Stiffler and Ashworth are doing the sec/steorn board measurement this week.
with a decscent calorimeter setup, they are getting the jump on you.

Better to stay with nominal value 12 volt or 5 volt input
at this stage battery drift would give error, constant voltage is preferred.
this way constant current will be available to dial in the just over ambient.

Simple example would look like:
fixed input 10 mA @5V DC has 28 degrees C measured on resistor
the same 10 mA @5V 8X Jones has 40 degrees C measured on resistor
ou done

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #456 on:** June 24, 2011, 02:23:07 PM »

Quote from: dimbulb on June 24, 2011, 02:10:13 AM

Congradulations on new baby. miracle of life OU

A fast way to measure this output in temperature is to fasten an LM35 temp sensor to the resistor
with a drop of epoxy. The LM35 is linear and should'nt matter what waveform. Quantitative
the input current needs to bring the sensor up over ambient.

Leds are relatively cool and not as directly related to work as the heat of a pure resistive load.
traditionally light bulbs were resistive and ac was simple sine.
The type of pulses being output will not be measured accurately on most digital multimeters
Using a better method will greatly improve the errors.

I agree with your concern regarding use of DMM's for the Pout.
I checked on the LM35 you suggest, and it does look like a good way to measure temp.
I'm thinking of having two "identical" LM35+resistor combo's, one for calibration and the other for measuring Poutput in the circuit. Calibration is done easily using a known DC Vin and Ain, P=IV. One could adjust this "known" P with the steady temp over ambient seen in the DUT, to determine the Pout in the DUT.

In effect, an inexpensive calorimeter.

Quote

Dr Stiffler and Ashworth are doing the sec/steorn board measurement this week.
with a decscent calorimeter setup, they are getting the jump on you.

I'm interested and supportive of their work, and hope that SOME approach will succeed SOON in demonstrating OU definitively. As I see it -- it's not a horse race... it's the human race that will benefit if someone succeeds AND is able to get the device out to people so as to empower the people and self-sustaining communities (rather than the super-wealthy). That second part is as important as the first... IMHO.

Thanks for your comments, dimbulb. Do you have a link for Dr Stiffler's current work?

totoalas · « **Reply #457 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:20:23 PM »

Quote from: JouleSeeker on June 17, 2011, 07:12:30 AM

I would like to encourage replications (and learning), and so I'm proposing a small "contest" -- to see who can reach the lowest Pin for any JT-type circuit.
Just for fun -- and learning!

Hi to all and Dr, Jones
My setup hopefully qualify for the 100th position but at least somebody can notice and replicate it also
cheers

totoalas

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4999-joulethief-sec-exciter-variants-post134504.html#post134504

http://www.energeticforum.com/134504-post1627.html

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #458 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:24:08 PM »

Hello, totoalas -- nice device, lighting LOTs of LEDs!
You wrote: "12 v 1m A Simply the Best"

Most of the devices in the running here are below 12uW, whereas yours is at 12mW... but if you could scale this down (perhaps by adding resistance to the base resistor), it would be interesting to see! also, could you provide a schematic drawing for this circuit?
In any case, thanks -- I like the work you have done.

DrStiffler · « **Reply #459 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:42:29 PM »

Quote from: JouleSeeker on June 24, 2011, 07:24:08 PM

Hello, totoalas -- nice device, lighting LOTs of LEDs!
You wrote: "12 v 1m A Simply the Best"

Most of the devices in the running here are below 12uW, whereas yours is at 12mW... but if you could scale this down (perhaps by adding resistance to the base resistor), it would be interesting to see! also, could you provide a schematic drawing for this circuit?
In any case, thanks -- I like the work you have done.

Scale it down?
Interesting, at the beginning of your project it was about scaling it up to be useful. I would think 45-120 White LED's or 6W FL's from a few mills has greater potential than a dim LED that one must view in the dark.

Not trying to put what is going on here down, yet the folks using variations of SEC, Tesla and Slayer/Tesla are years ahead here, even doing (Power) transmission wireless. IMHO its not scale down, its scale up. So for a dim LED at a few uW what is wrong with tens to hundreds of watts with a few watts in, the CEC is still >1.

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #460 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:51:02 PM »

Quote from: DrStiffler on June 24, 2011, 07:42:29 PM

Scale it down?
Interesting, at the beginning of your project it was about scaling it up to be useful. I would think 45-120 White LED's or 6W FL's from a few mills has greater potential than a dim LED that one must view in the dark.

Not trying to put what is going on here down, yet the folks using variations of SEC, Tesla and Slayer/Tesla are years ahead here, even doing (Power) transmission wireless. IMHO its not scale down, its scale up. So for a dim LED at a few uW what is wrong with tens to hundreds of watts with a few watts in, the CEC is still >1.

I'm impressed by this other work, and nothing wrong with what totoalas has done.

If you read back several pages, you will see that there is a contest going on here -- working on the input power side, and using the cap/time method for measuring Pinput, and trying to minimize Pinput while continuing to light an LED visibly in a lighted room (not in the dark). In the process of this effort, it has been observed that at a critical voltage, the LED goes very dim/off -- then re-lights, with the input power consumption going down two orders of magnitude. Thus, we are learning new things by means of this little contest.

Admittedly a small contest, and the great goal remains -- DEMONSTRATING a self-running device, or electrical Pout/Pin > 1.

I'm still very interested, as I said early on, in scaling to higher power once OU has been definitively demonstrated.

Thanks for your comment Dr. Stiffler -- and sincere best wishes on your efforts to demonstrate CEC > 1.

DrStiffler · « **Reply #461 on:** June 24, 2011, 08:06:34 PM »

Quote from: JouleSeeker on June 24, 2011, 07:51:02 PM

I'm impressed by this other work, and nothing wrong with what totoalas has done.

If you read back several pages, you will see that there is a contest going on here -- working on the input power side, and using the cap/time method for measuring Pinput, and trying to minimize Pinput while continuing to light an LED visibly in a lighted room (not in the dark). In the process of this effort, it has been observed that at a critical voltage, the LED goes very dim/off -- then re-lights, with the input power consumption going down two orders of magnitude. Thus, we are learning new things by means of this little contest.

Admittedly a small contest, and the great goal remains -- DEMONSTRATING a self-running device, or electrical Pout/Pin > 1.
I'm still very interested, as I said early on, in scaling to higher power once OU has been demonstrated.

Thanks for your comment Dr. Stiffler -- and sincere best wishes on your efforts to demonstrate CEC > 1.

I'm fully aware of the 'Contest' and wonder how the thinking is going. So is it that a device that will give you OU has no energy consumption? Is it in essence just a passive energy receiver? Isn't this so called OU determined by Pin/Pout? So if you reduce a circuit to margin of error input readings have you not removed the Pin term from the equation and we now have only Pout?

I also question how measuring the heat on a load resistor has any bearing at all on the overall gain in the circuit. Unless the entire circuit was indeed passive, except at the load, there are indeed other losses and (all) of these losses must be summed in order to see the magical OU.

I have indeed demonstrated a CEC>1, using calorimetry and this has been replicated by reputable third parties and has no bearing on what I have addressed about you direction. Condescending rebuttal does not elicit any help from someone that has already walked the same path.

Good Luck Sir!

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #462 on:** June 24, 2011, 08:13:42 PM »

Quote from: DrStiffler on June 24, 2011, 08:06:34 PM

I'm fully aware of the 'Contest' and wonder how the thinking is going. So is it that a device that will give you OU has no energy consumption? Is it in essence just a passive energy receiver? Isn't this so called OU determined by Pin/Pout? So if you reduce a circuit to margin of error input readings have you not removed the Pin term from the equation and we now have only Pout?

Rather, OU is determined by Pout/Pin > 1; I suppose this is what you meant. We are not reducing a circuit to "margin of error" readings -- the cap/time method is capable of some accuracy in the microwatt range.

Quote

I also question how measuring the heat on a load resistor has any bearing at all on the overall gain in the circuit. Unless the entire circuit was indeed passive, except at the load, there are indeed other losses and (all) of these losses must be summed in order to see the magical OU.

I have indeed demonstrated a CEC>1, using calorimetry and this has been replicated by reputable third parties and has no bearing on what I have addressed about you direction. Condescending rebuttal does not elicit any help from someone that has already walked the same path.

Good Luck Sir!

If the gain is sufficient, the temperature rise in a load resistor (output leg of the circuit) may suffice to demonstrate Pout/Pin >1.

And calorimetric methods are certainly in order, carefully done -- as I've said above also, early on.

You state, "I have indeed demonstrated a CEC>1, using calorimetry " -- that's truly wonderful, are the results available that I and others might see them?

DrStiffler · « **Reply #463 on:** June 24, 2011, 08:20:11 PM »

Quote from: JouleSeeker on June 24, 2011, 08:13:42 PM

Rather, OU is determined by Pout/Pin > 1; I suppose this is what you meant. We are not reducing a circuit to "margin of error" readings -- the cap/time method is capable of some accuracy in the microwatt range.

And calorimetric methods are certainly in order, carefully done -- as I've said above also, early on.

You state, "I have indeed demonstrated a CEC>1, using calorimetry " -- that's truly wonderful, are the results available that I and others might see them?

A Non-Disclosure and Proprietary Rights Agreement signed in part by any reputable institution is currently all that is required. Private individuals are not included as it is impossible to determine who they are and what interests they represent.

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #464 on:** June 24, 2011, 09:03:46 PM »

Quote from: DrStiffler on June 24, 2011, 08:20:11 PM

A Non-Disclosure and Proprietary Rights Agreement signed in part by any reputable institution is currently all that is required. Private individuals are not included as it is impossible to determine who they are and what interests they represent.

Makes some sense, yes. Does the individual at a reputable institution sign, is that sufficient, or does a representative of the institution need to sign also?

I'm very interested in seeing that developments such as yours reach the people, as opposed to enriching the elitists/big corporations. Is that your approach also? or do you seek to sell to a corporation?

To me, this is an over-riding consideration.

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Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ? (Read 920577 times)

forest

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