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Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?  (Read 694273 times)

Offline nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #135 on: June 02, 2011, 11:09:33 AM »
NP -- I am studying your circuit with interest, and learning.

I agree with what you are doing here and look forward to your results.  Thanks for taking a close look at this, and for innovations in "harvesting and recycling the [output]" which is the most difficult part of the evaluation of the circuit. 

Best wishes for your success,
Steven


thanks for your encouragement, Steven, appreciated!

it seems that you're comfortable with the fact that i'm not attempting a replication here, merely looking at one possible approach for you to try, if you wish, when you feedback the o/p of your circuit to the supply

hence, i'm not (yet) listing component values and probe points, etc

i tried a few 'variations on a theme' with the feedback arrangement, before leaving the system to run overnight, so the battery depleted some more, as a result of these preliminary tests
(the new pulse width is approx 35uS, at 182Hz repetition)

i could see from the voltage decrease over just a few minutes, that there was little effect from the feedback with some configs, but one or two looked better than others, so i settled on one (as shown above, but with an additional schottky, D2, in reverse polarity across 0V and Vee) to leave for the overnight run

at 03:00:
Vbatt: 1.22V
Vcap: 2.39V

at 08:15:
Vbatt: 1.22V
Vcap:2.38V

i'm including a couple of photos just to give you a general idea of my setup - also to try & show a very general indication of the illumination (using a 'HiBrite' type LED, nothing particularly special)

difficult to catch on camera, the LED is actually red but in the photo it appears to have a pinkish colour  - however, the light level is about right for its visibility against the morning sun in the room

i'll leave the setup alone now, and just monitor the supply voltage trend, for a few days continuous operation


i hope you get some quality time on your trip - and plenty of opportunities to enjoy some of the good things we've been blessed with in this world around us!

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
 
 
 


« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 11:31:12 AM by nul-points »

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Offline hyiq

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #136 on: June 02, 2011, 11:24:36 AM »
Hi All,

Apologies, to conform to Dr Jones Circuit I have moved the Variable Resistor (in my case a Potentiometer) to the negative rail and not on the positive rail.

All the Best.

  Chris


Offline jmmac

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #137 on: June 02, 2011, 11:39:56 AM »
Prof. Jones,

"without success" -- do you mean it won't light up the LED, or what?

The transistor oscillates and the LED lights up but only when Ro is around 0 Ohm (very bright). The frequency and waveforms seems different than yours. Once i measured around 200KHz (visually in the scope). The frequency changes if i change RB (is that supposed to happen?) The circuit is very unstable.

I must buy some 2N2222, red leds and built an inductance meter to confirm the coil.

When you have a couple hours free, a thing you could do to help people replicate exactly your circuit is to create a "replication for dummies" video or document! Starting with an empty bread board and components and gradually mount them and measure the waveforms and do all kinds of checking. This seems to be a difficult circuit to replicate, the smallest detail probably changes the way it works.

Regards,
Jaime

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #137 on: June 02, 2011, 11:39:56 AM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #138 on: June 02, 2011, 12:49:27 PM »
I note that 5 or more entire pages have gone by in this thread and only a single person has said anything about measuring ENERGY in and out in your circuit.... besides me, that is.


TK,

I don't think anyone would disagree with your valid comments. The importance of measuring energy levels rather than power has been well driven home in the past, especially by Bedini. However, comparitive average power measurements are good enough IMO to show whether this circuit is working close to unity and as I see it, this is what people are doing in the first instance to 'get a feel for it'. I see no point in going further unless there is a clear indication of super efficiency. I'm now happy from my replication that this circuit is nowhere near unity, so will not be continuing. I do hope that others can satisfy you with their measuring techniques and validate Steven's claim of overunity with their replications.

Hoppy

Offline hyiq

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #139 on: June 02, 2011, 12:59:59 PM »
Hi All,
I have some more results. I have rebuilt the circuit quite a few times and am getting good results on the measurements so far. I have improved my output readings so far as to say I believe I have replicated Dr Jones Circuit and results.

I have used a JFet, model J6910, from Fairchild. Its a salvage from an old TV. Any way, please point out any mistakes you can see and I will be happy to correct and remeasure. My Probe on voltage is set to DC. My Probe on Sense Resistor Current is set to AC and this is the same for both input and output measurements.



All the Best.



  Chris


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #139 on: June 02, 2011, 12:59:59 PM »
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Offline hyiq

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #140 on: June 02, 2011, 01:09:29 PM »
Hi All,

P.S. My load is obviously the LED. I use this as I dont have two scopes. I tune to get the lowest input power I can but get the LED as bright as I can.

Still there is room for measurement error here.

All the best.

  Chris

Offline Tudi

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #141 on: June 02, 2011, 01:35:17 PM »
...
About your scope shot null-points. In ZPE theory you almost got it working. The idea is to somehow break the chain of that increasing oscilation before it starts decreasing. There is some reason it started increasing in peak values and some reason that it started decreasing peak values ( -4 us ). In theory if you manage to tap the output just right, and really use up the output not just loop it back or try to store in a cap that changes it's parameters as it starts to fill up, you should be able to maintain that high peak oscilation state. Ofc, easy to say, hard to do :)
As i seen it in Joulseeker video, this oscilation phase( rise -> fall ) is much longer then in yours. Maybe this is the factor of the OU output ?
Hard to do it but : if you manage to loop back the output in a way to be in resonance to the next output, it should amplify the peak values every time it loops ( untill everything falls apart ). Ex : loop 1 will generate 1 peak value of 2x amplification at moment 2us with duration of 1us. If you manage to loop back output so that this this peaked value will get peaked again, you should get a 4x(+2x peak from input) peak at same 2us with duration of 1us.
But if you do not do it right, then you will have a scope shot of either a consecutive peaks with same size, or some random peaks ( noise like ), with larger and smaller peaks due to the harmonics of the signal ( loop x in harmonic with loop y + loop z with loop k.... )
Since it is insanely hard to get such sincronization to get a harmonics at every loop. Just producing lots of lots of peaks should increase the chance to get an increasing amplification.
ps: this is just peaking the voltage, not increasing energy ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #141 on: June 02, 2011, 01:35:17 PM »
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Offline Tudi

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #142 on: June 02, 2011, 01:36:18 PM »
deleted. accidental double post

Offline xee2

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #143 on: June 02, 2011, 02:02:26 PM »
@ hyiq

If you are using R3 to measure input current, I think it should be moved to be in series with the battery so that it is only measuring the battery current. And I think you should remove VR2 since it is shorted out by the grounds.

NOTE: Where you have it, R3 is only measuring a small part of the current coming into circuit since most of the current is going into the output ground.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 06:05:21 PM by xee2 »

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #143 on: June 02, 2011, 02:02:26 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #144 on: June 02, 2011, 03:01:51 PM »
[...]
ps: this is just peaking the voltage, not increasing energy ?


thanks for your comments Tudi

as i mentioned above, this isn't intended to be a replication to confirm Steven's results - i'm just investigating one possible method for returning the o/p to the supply

obviously, if my circuit begins to show any signs that it also benefits from the same excess energy** which Steven measures, then it will justify closer attention

(** that's energy as in (((Sum of all instantaneous(V * i))/ No. data points) * t), for folks that haven't read up on Steven's test methodology)

...not sure if your question i've quoted above is just rhetorical, or if you're directing it at me?    if it's to me, could you expand a bit, on what 'this' is?  thanks


@all
just discovered a little earlier that the more depleted of the two NiMHs which  i'v been using in the circuit described above, had started getting charged by the less depleted cell and had flipped polarity, with a small reverse voltage of approx 25mV

so i've removed that cell and the circuit is now working from a single cell at approx 1.25V

this is pretty close to the previous conditions, so the LED brightness appears unaffected

i'll continue monitoring the cell voltage trend with this new setup


thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline Tudi

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #145 on: June 02, 2011, 03:12:51 PM »
@null-points : was more rhetorical about the peaks. If you manage to get harmonics with looping signals continuesly increasing the peaks, to respect the energy conservation theory, the duration of the peaks should decrease at every loop. But if they decrease, then in order to get a harmonics, your circuit should get "shorter" at every loop for the same signal OR you will get the harmonics at different intervals 2x, 3x, 4x...which practically would lead to a totally random signal output regarding peaks ( which most people do get ).
The interesting question is, what is the shortest peek length this circuit can handle ? What happens after then length would want to further diminish ? (I'm almost shore there is a theory for this) My guess is that the peak length gets so small it should get passed undisturbed in the circuit and the value of it eaten up by the R or C in every loop.

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #145 on: June 02, 2011, 03:12:51 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #146 on: June 02, 2011, 03:57:19 PM »
@null-points : was more rhetorical about the peaks.
[...]

ok, thanks Tudi

yes, there's not much chance of the o/p peaks in my circuit starting to 'overlap', compared to Steven's results with his component values - i've slowed my circuit's pulse o/p down to approx 200Hz with only a 6% mark-space ratio

it sounds like a system would need to have good stability to 'synch' as you described, and i noticed (as did Jaime with his build?) that even at my lower operating frequency, the 'breadboarded' circuit is very sensitive to stray capacitance effects

interesting ideas - let's hear what Steven makes of them when he's back online

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline nul-points

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #147 on: June 02, 2011, 04:16:49 PM »
Hi All,
I have some more results. I have rebuilt the circuit quite a few times and am getting good results on the measurements so far. I have improved my output readings so far as to say I believe I have replicated Dr Jones Circuit and results.
[...]
All the Best.

  Chris


hi Chris

thanks for sharing your results with us, it's encouraging that they are supporting Steven's own results - the set of successful replications is growing!


BTW  could you help those of us who have smaller displays on our computer systems?

it would be very helpful if you could reduce the size of your images before posting, because wide images force all the text on every post on the page to require horizontal as well as the usual vertical scrolling in order to read all of each post

a maximum width of around 800 pixels should still leave a suitable resolution for most images - and it should also allow folks with limited screen-width displays to be able to read the entire page just by scrolling down

thanks in advance for your help with this


i meant to say above, nice clean build you have there - compared with my 'birdsnest' construction!

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #148 on: June 02, 2011, 04:17:00 PM »
  I appreciate all the good ideas and replications going on here.  I've just had time to read over quickly before hitting the road.  Will check back this evening, if the hotel has wifi...

Thanks nul-pts, good tests, and Chris and all.  I like the way you guys jump in and get things done! 

Offline ltseung888

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #149 on: June 02, 2011, 10:43:24 PM »
My experience with this type of "resonance" circuits is that the performance can be greatly affected by changing the length of the wires; changing their spacing and using different holes on the breadboard.

In Hong Kong, we used two ATTEN Oscilloscopes to compare the Input and Output.  Much time was used to tune (compare the Output Power waveform with the Input Power waveform).

Simply connecting the circuit and performing the measurement is unlikely to yield the "resonance" results.  Replication will not be achieved without tuning, tuning and tuning.

Hope this hint helps.

 

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