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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists  (Read 165860 times)

Offline wings

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2011, 11:10:17 AM »
When you are trying to replicate Rom´s device then he told the primary thing is "high efficient" generator, while motor for spin this generator can be some other kind as well, even no needs it locates on the same rotor disc. So why to mess with leds, drivers and with "two diodes"  ::)
First thing is main principle of Rom´s coils set up
1.) rotor magnet acts to ferrous core coil and induces voltage ...
or
2.) rotor magnets are really only just like "power switshes" for the flux of coil top magnet 
??? 
First thing is to try to tune one coil pair with top  magnet, works it at all or not.
What is primary?
2.) rotor speed and number of magnets -> frequency ...
or ...
1.) rotor speed and diameter -> magnet velocity ...
When common generator then of course velocity of magnet.
When velocity of rotor magnet is important then (when all coils, magnets and gaps are as the same as possible) also rotor diameter (diameter where magnets are) must to be the same  - only then you can get appr. the same output voltage with the same RPM as Rom. And of course there must to be rectifier and capacitor already included.
 ::)
cheers,
khabe

IMO the key is in this simulation but with the right stator magnets strength 

the stator magnets like to have flux connected also because of ferrite core while the rotor magnet push it away

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2011, 11:10:17 AM »

Offline khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2011, 01:48:47 PM »
I see not any anomaly and not any normal magnetic effect what can help to get something extraordinary from ferrite core/coil.
Looks like from coils(cores) coming nothing, far not some kind of extras.
To be honest I dont trust every kind of simulation programs. These are good for defense of a thesis to get a degree and just for bla-bla, very seldom any help in real life.
Or perhaps you have better eye to detect something else  ::)
cheers,
khabe

Offline wings

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2011, 03:32:35 PM »
I see not any anomaly and not any normal magnetic effect what can help to get something extraordinary from ferrite core/coil.
Looks like from coils(cores) coming nothing, far not some kind of extras.
To be honest I dont trust every kind of simulation programs. These are good for defense of a thesis to get a degree and just for bla-bla, very seldom any help in real life.
Or perhaps you have better eye to detect something else  ::)
cheers,
khabe

see this frame V=dFlux / dt
 ......
the stator magnets like to have flux connected also because of ferrite core while the rotor magnet push it away

also the washer is necessary to mask .... ?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 04:49:45 PM by wings »

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2011, 03:32:35 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2011, 03:44:18 PM »
see this frame V=dFlux / dt
 ......
the stator magnets like to have flux connected also because of ferrite core while the rotor magnet push it away

This is the "gate" i am talking about.

Fausto.

Offline khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2011, 03:54:00 PM »
I see, but flux between two ferrite cores when so long distance between is insignificant.
I do not blame you, myself I have removed  kind simulation programs as quick as installed, first try was 10 years ago.
There is impossible to create similar situation and state of affairs with actuality, you can insert different materials and data how many times you like,
result will come unconformable with real life anyway.
This is just my own opinion, possible Im wrong  ::)
cheers,
khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2011, 03:54:00 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2011, 06:40:11 PM »
Fausto
Greetings,
I just spent the better part of an hour on the phone  with Carmen [Mr. Mullers Daughter].
A fabulous woman That carrys her fathers legacy with Pride!
I mentioned your name and will be forwarding her a link to this thread .
She is a kindred spirit!!
Chet
PS
If I was her father I would be very proud!

Offline plengo

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2011, 08:55:22 PM »
Fausto
Greetings,
I just spent the better part of an hour on the phone  with Carmen [Mr. Mullers Daughter].
A fabulous woman That carrys her fathers legacy with Pride!
I mentioned your name and will be forwarding her a link to this thread .
She is a kindred spirit!!
Chet
PS
If I was her father I would be very proud!

Thank you Chet. That was a great idea. I would be very proud of her if she was my daughter too.

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2011, 08:55:22 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2011, 11:18:29 AM »
see this frame V=dFlux / dt
 ......
the stator magnets like to have flux connected also because of ferrite core while the rotor magnet push it away

also the washer is necessary to mask .... ?

from winsonali in enother forum:
a normal core material saturates in 10 ms its so there is no need to waste power by continuously powering it for 20 ms
this can alone save quite good energy in transformers
this can be represented as flywheel effect in mechanical
how we can describe the same effect when we are generating energy.

In order to replicate and have max output from Romerouk experiment the diameter of magnets, stators and rotors - rotational speed and timing seems important.

Offline wings

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »
from winsonali in enother forum:
a normal core material saturates in 10 ms its so there is no need to waste power by continuously powering it for 20 ms
this can alone save quite good energy in transformers
this can be represented as flywheel effect in mechanical
how we can describe the same effect when we are generating energy.

In order to replicate and have max output from Romerouk experiment the diameter of magnets, stators and rotors - rotational speed and timing seems important.

Tom Bearden - http://www.cheniere.org/techpapers/jap/masterprinciple.htm :

Regauging thus can provide work-free stored EM energy "refueling" of an electrical or magnetic system — a Maxwell's Demon of special kind. The gauge freedom axiom of quantum field theory already assumes that a system’s potential energy can be freely changed at will.

In the real world, magnetic domains and moving electrical charges occupy finite volumes rather than the "point unit magnetic north pole" and "point positive coulomb of charge" assumed by conventional EM field theory. Particularly in a magnetic system, a highly nonlinear single-valued potential with radical magnitude changes in a stator region smaller than the finite domains of the rotor can be utilized as a "pseudo MVP," since a rotor domain will experience this rapid alteration of the magnetostatic scalar potential in a single domain as a nearly instantaneous "jump". Even over many domains, a sharply changed single-valued potential with a finite rise time can be used if the resulting field is radially oriented so that no tangential drag results on the rotor. The jump time dt can be made sufficiently small so that the overall ò F(t)dt "back impulse" becomes negligible or vanishes. The jumped potential can be appreciably higher than that of the next forward tangential stator region. In that case a strong tangential force results which accelerates the rotor and adds energy to it. Consequently, immediately after the jump the rotor can experience a substantial net overall boost out of the pseudo MVP jump region, as formally proven by Johnson's magnetic gates in actual laboratory force-time measurements every 0.01 sec.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 12:11:35 PM by wings »

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »
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Offline khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2011, 11:47:16 AM »
Core saturation is interesting but are you sure  we can speak about saturation when distance between  core and magnets is 10mm from both ends ? ::)
cheers,
khabe

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2011, 01:13:37 PM »
from winsonali in enother forum:
a normal core material saturates in 10 ms its so there is no need to waste power by continuously powering it for 20 ms
this can alone save quite good energy in transformers
this can be represented as flywheel effect in mechanical
how we can describe the same effect when we are generating energy.

In order to replicate and have max output from Romerouk experiment the diameter of magnets, stators and rotors - rotational speed and timing seems important.

I think Winsonali made a mistake here. Looking to a transformer, the in and ouput current always have a phase difference of at least 180 degrees ( i.e. > 10 ms when 50 Hz is applied).
I have measured many, many cores on B-H curve characteristic, I never saw these kind of delays to to core behaviour.

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2011, 01:13:37 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2011, 01:50:16 PM »
I think Winsonali made a mistake here. Looking to a transformer, the in and ouput current always have a phase difference of at least 180 degrees ( i.e. > 10 ms when 50 Hz is applied).
I have measured many, many cores on B-H curve characteristic, I never saw these kind of delays to to core behaviour.
this time is related to Magnetic Domain propagation speed - domino effect ( 100 - 2000 m/s ?)

i.e. magnetic viscosity
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Magnetic_Viscosity
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:01:46 PM by wings »

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2011, 08:07:01 PM »
this time is related to Magnetic Domain propagation speed - domino effect ( 100 - 2000 m/s ?)

i.e. magnetic viscosity
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Magnetic_Viscosity

I was aware of magnetic viscosity.
Let's restrict this to ferrites.
However I have never seen scientific papers mentioning magnetic delays larger than 10 micro (us) seconds .
So, 10 ms is unreal in my view.

Nicolay Zaev has published some scientific research results of magnetic viscosity in ferrites.
Attached is one of his papers. I have more publications of him but these files are too large to post here.

I have said this already 2 times before, but if the tolerances of the used components were very tight, one would not even need to use the extra stator magnets and washers.
However in particular the popular magnets have a fairly high spread in strength.
This is why earlier attempts have failed, because people do not realize this and because in case one uses large spread in magnets the BEMF integral over one circumference is not zero anymore.
RomeroUK has found a trick to compensate the rotor magnet strength spread in a clever way, but in some cases it will not be sufficient, because compensation can not be done 100% in this way.
Why not? well if you compensate for one rotor position, the next rotor position will require a different compensation due to the spread in rotor magnet strength.
So, compensation can only be done as a kind of average over all rotor positions.
In his case this worked. If people do not understand this issue and have larger spread in rotor magnets they will fail in replicating this.

B.t.w. Peswiki should not be used as a technical reference, its far from reliable. It's good for finding new initiatives though, but never scientifically verified.

[Edited]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:32:19 PM by teslaalset »

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2011, 09:00:11 PM »
@teslaalset . Where you say "The whole priciple of the Muller Dynamo etc etc . Is this the opinion of Zaec , or is this your own personal opinion ? I f this is in fact the case , there would be a way around this . You would need some way to measure magnet field strength . In its simplest form , this could be a meads of measuring "pull" at a fixed distance . Now bbuild a machine with only the top stator .Leave out the bottom stator coils . Now slide the magnets up or down in the rotor so they all have the same pull on the cores above .

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2011, 09:07:38 PM »
@teslaalset . Where you say "The whole priciple of the Muller Dynamo etc etc . Is this the opinion of Zaec , or is this your own personal opinion ? I f this is in fact the case , there would be a way around this . You would need some way to measure magnet field strength . In its simplest form , this could be a meads of measuring "pull" at a fixed distance . Now bbuild a machine with only the top stator .Leave out the bottom stator coils . Now slide the magnets up or down in the rotor so they all have the same pull on the cores above .

Hi Neptune,

Only the magnetic viscosity finding is from Zaev.
The rest is my own insights. I am only human, so let's discuss, I may be wrong too.
Most of it is just common sense.
It is confirmed by Ansys Maxwell simulations. As soon as I have a good report I will post it at OU, not earlier, because it will clutter the discussions.
See it as my 'virtual replication'.

Regarding your suggestion to use only one stator side, there is still the problem of rotor magnet spread. I'll make an illustration to explain, so we can allign our opinions, one drawing tells more than 1000 words. Allow me some time, I'll post it here.

 

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