Author Topic: Muller Dynamo for experimentalists (Read 206032 times)

Hoppy · « **Reply #225 on:** June 14, 2011, 03:07:49 PM »

Quote from: plengo on June 14, 2011, 02:01:56 PM

It may be true for you not in my setup. I have tested ANY load without those capacitors and the change in RPM is instant and very, very visible. This is the difference in theory and practice. I can make a video showing that to prove what I am saying. Are you only repeating the theory you know or experiments you have done?

Fausto.

Yes, Ive done the experiments and I don't see anything unusual as you do. I appreciate your comments and hope that you achieve OU.

Hoppy

bolt · « **Reply #226 on:** June 15, 2011, 12:15:16 AM »

Quote from: teslaalset on June 12, 2011, 07:41:22 PM

IMHO Bedini's operate like the oscillation of a RLC circuit, where phase changes are very very sensitive, because the R values used are quite small and thus having a very high Q factor.
A tiny bit of different environment change and the phase status is changed beyond the desired value.

The trick is to understand how to control the phase and keep it stable. I guess we are all looking for that still.

In Romero's closed loop demo, the buffer capacitor is doing a kind of Phase Locked Loop function in my view.
As the DC level of this buffer capacitor is changing, so does the timing of shortening the generator coil.
When the capacitor DC voltage level is decreasing, the shortening occurs earlier in time, when the DC level is increasing the shortening starts later in time.
This way this system is keeping itself kind of stable, but within capable boundaries.

Bedini system he just power factoring his charging battery. Many people would benefit by using a SERIES tuned capacitor with the load before the bridge or diode to maintain the best VSWR. As you say load changes greatly effect the source in passive systems. Except now consider the muller where is you have 10 generator coils going to a common load BUS and the load impedance changes by say 10% then you can see 10% on one tuned device will knock off tune. BUT with 10 coils sharing the distribution load now each coil has a phase loading of just 1% even though the load changed by 10% due to load balancing.

With this in mind the faster you build your rigs to have all coils making a contribution the greater immunity you have to load changes. Oh with one small factor....you at least know how to make one successful coil!

Many hands make light work:)

chrisC · « **Reply #227 on:** June 15, 2011, 12:29:17 AM »

Quote from: Hoppy on June 14, 2011, 03:07:49 PM

Yes, Ive done the experiments and I don't see anything unusual as you do. I appreciate your comments and hope that you achieve OU.

Hoppy

@Hoppy
It's interesting to hear you've done the experiments and discovered nothing unusual(?).
What experiments did you actually perform and what are the results if I may ask.
Thanks

cheers
chrisC

Hoppy · « **Reply #228 on:** June 15, 2011, 10:57:02 AM »

Quote from: chrisC on June 15, 2011, 12:29:17 AM

@Hoppy
It's interesting to hear you've done the experiments and discovered nothing unusual(?).
What experiments did you actually perform and what are the results if I may ask.
Thanks

cheers
chrisC

Hi Chris,

To clarify, I don't see anything unusual in what Fausto shows in his video for the reasons I explained. I have seen some things with my own experiments that I considered unusual at the time but that I later realised could be explained. In none of these experiments have I seen overunity when running the experiments over the course of time. Battery vagaries are a source of excitement, where supply battery voltage can climb for long periods of time when loaded, giving the impression of overunity. My experiments with rotor based devices over the last few years have shown the Bedini 'G' Field generator variants to be very interesting and I have had interesting results from these where the supply battery has appeared to power the machine for much longer than its ampere hour rating should allow with coil discharge loop back. However, when energy calculations are properly worked out over the full running period, the result is always under unity.

Hoppy

Hoppy · « **Reply #229 on:** June 15, 2011, 11:21:45 AM »

Chris,

Please do not think I'm implying that the Romero device replications will fail to self-run when the battery is removed. I would not be surprised to see some replications that run-on for a period of time. However, I do expect all to stop running when the stored energy within the device is exhausted. This will be manifest by a reduction in rotor speed over time.

Hoppy

nul-points · « **Reply #230 on:** June 15, 2011, 12:46:00 PM »

Quote from: Hoppy on June 15, 2011, 11:21:45 AM

[...]
However, I do expect all to stop running when the stored energy within the device is exhausted. This will be manifest by a reduction in rotor speed over time.

Hoppy

hi Hoppy

i'm interested to know what stored energy you believe there to be in Romero's system

i can see that the 47000uF capcitor is one store of energy - at 12V it stores less than enough energy (approx 4 Watt-seconds) to sustain the 12W motor drive for half a second

the rotor inertia is a second store of energy - spin-down from switch-off at regular running rpm sustains rotation at a decreasing rate for around 100 seconds

what is the third (and any other) store of energy which you see as sustaining operation (with & without additional electric load) for the remaining approx 15 minute runtime during Romero's video?

15 minutes of motor drive requires an energy input of 10.8 Kilowatt-seconds

where do you see this 10.8 Kilowatt-seconds as being 'stored energy within the device'?

thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Hoppy · « **Reply #231 on:** June 15, 2011, 12:55:27 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on June 15, 2011, 12:46:00 PM

hi Hoppy

i'm interested to know what stored energy you believe there to be in Romero's system

i can see that the 47000uF capcitor is one store of energy - at 12V it stores less than enough energy (approx 4 Watt-seconds) to sustain the 12W motor drive for half a second

the rotor inertia is a second store of energy - spin-down from switch-off at regular running rpm sustains rotation at a decreasing rate for around 100 seconds

what is the third (and any other) store of energy which you see as sustaining operation (with & without additional electric load) for the remaining approx 15 minute runtime during Romero's video?

15 minutes of motor drive requires an energy input of 10.8 Kilowatt-seconds

where do you see this 10.8 Kilowatt-seconds as being 'stored energy within the device'?

thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Hi np,

No more than you have stated, which is why I see all replications running down to a stop.

Hoppy

nul-points · « **Reply #232 on:** June 15, 2011, 01:10:08 PM »

Quote from: Hoppy on June 15, 2011, 12:55:27 PM

Hi np,

No more than you have stated, which is why I see all replications running down to a stop.

Hoppy

?!?

what i stated accounts for much less than 100-and-a-half seconds of operation

i asked you where you see the OTHER 10.8 Kilowatt-seconds being stored in Romero's system, which is how much stored energy would be required to keep it operational for the remaining 900 seconds of his video?

thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Hoppy · « **Reply #233 on:** June 15, 2011, 01:24:18 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on June 15, 2011, 01:10:08 PM

?!?

what i stated accounts for much less than 100-and-a-half seconds of operation

i asked you where you see the OTHER 10.8Kilowatt-seconds being stored in Romero's system, which is how much stored energy would be required to keep it operational for the remaining 900 seconds of his video?

thanks
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

In a dipole.

Hoppy

nul-points · « **Reply #234 on:** June 15, 2011, 01:56:21 PM »

Quote from: Hoppy on June 15, 2011, 01:24:18 PM

In a dipole.

Hoppy

LOL - up a gum tree

Hoppy · « **Reply #235 on:** June 15, 2011, 02:52:50 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on June 15, 2011, 01:56:21 PM

LOL - up a gum tree

Its to heavy to get it up there! -

nul-points · « **Reply #236 on:** June 15, 2011, 03:27:56 PM »

Quote from: Hoppy on June 15, 2011, 02:52:50 PM

Its to heavy to get it up there! -

at my age there's no shortage of reasons to be unable to 'get it up' there...

thinking about it, 'shortage' is probably the main reason!

Hoppy · « **Reply #237 on:** June 15, 2011, 03:45:48 PM »

Quote from: nul-points on June 15, 2011, 03:27:56 PM

at my age there's no shortage of reasons to be unable to 'get it up' there...

thinking about it, 'shortage' is probably the main reason!

LOL: I'll drink to that!!

hartiberlin · « **Reply #238 on:** June 15, 2011, 04:35:42 PM »

Hi Fausto,
well done !
So with no DC path in the output, only AC coupling you get
no Lenz law drag down effect ?

How much power can you extract this way on one coil pair at about 920 RPM ?
Many thanks for your great work !
Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin · « **Reply #239 on:** June 15, 2011, 04:45:54 PM »

Hi Fausto and all:

I wonder, what will happen, if you use no DC path in your output,
but only use 2 Avramenko plugs to generate the output DC.

So put on every coil output wire just an Avramenko plug with 2 diodes and 1 cap,
so for each coil you get 2 Avramenko plugs.

Then you have no DC current path.

Would be optimal also with coil shorting cause there you have fast changing waveforms...
and it would also not slow down the rotor.

Regards, Stefan.

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