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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: SPANG on May 10, 2011, 06:46:30 AM

Title: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 10, 2011, 06:46:30 AM
Hi All,
        Apparently, my file is too big to 'post', but if you like, I'll send it to you as an attachment to an email.
It's about a design for an overbalancing wheel.
You might be pleasantly surprised!

SPANG.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Airstriker on May 10, 2011, 12:31:20 PM
If you make it a .jpg file it should be just fine. If not just resize it a bit. Many will not ask you for a picture, for security reasons.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: pese on May 10, 2011, 07:35:46 PM
If you make it a .jpg file it should be just fine. If not just resize it a bit. Many will not ask you for a picture, for security reasons.

What will you do IF:
MIBs
are specially
sitting in front of data-lines to
this "anonymous" companies ??
So the can fish  all the mist interessantly messages !!

What you will di, if tis "anonymous" companies that offer to
"transvert" you datas are FOUND  (easest) by MIB´s or
other
specially services, that can sell your scrips.


I think to do such business.
Possibly an good buisiness
Pese
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 11, 2011, 02:55:02 AM
Hi,
    I'm glad that I've been able to send my attachments to
another member of this forum. This person will remain
annonimous ---- at least, I WON'T publish his private
email address --- that's a certainty!
Don't be shy boys ---------------- I'm perfectly safe!!

SPANG     (BILL
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 11, 2011, 07:46:45 AM
I think it would be wise of me, to give you all some
reason to contact me with your private email addresses
----------- in order for me to add my notes etc.., as an
attachment. As I've said before, 'don't be shy' ---------
after all, you have EVERYTHING to gain ----------------
NOTHING to lose!

The main thing to remember is this; The design I've come
up with ----------- ALREADY overbalances!  It's just a
simple matter of KEEPING it overbalanced.
I've tentatively come up with a mechanism, to do just that
but It needs improving.  I'm hoping, that this information
will be enough to make you 'get in touch' with me.
GOOD LUCK to you all.

SPANG   (BILL).
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 12, 2011, 09:44:52 AM
One of these anonymous persons happens to be myself ;D

Bill are perfectly safe :) The files are big, yes.

Bill: When you scan documents, please select a lower resolution. My guess is a default resolution of 300DPI. Change it to 72DPI (Manually type "72" in the resolution section). Also select "Greyscale", or even "Black&White". It will reduce the filesize to minimum 1/18, maximum 1/200.

That said, when anyone of you wants to make an overbalanced wheel, all that matter is the potential energy left in each weight after one complete cycle. If the weights are starting and ending at the same hight, there will never be excess potential energy to run the wheel. As far as I know, all gravity wheels I've seen this far, does exactly that. All the weights are limited to a given radius and hight. So there should be no reason why such wheels will ever run. Complexity, timing, etc. are not interesting. These factors will not change the potential energy. Weights are still just weights regardless of alignment, complexity, and numbers.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 12, 2011, 08:46:17 PM
@ Low-Q: Do you or anyone you know have a math formulae That proves the impossibility of a gravity driven wheel? Im talking about using weights and gravity in a wheel.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: quantumtangles on May 12, 2011, 10:07:31 PM
@ Low-Q: Do you or anyone you know have a math formulae That proves the impossibility of a gravity driven wheel? Im talking about using weights and gravity in a wheel"

The impossibility of gravity driven wheels is said to arise from the inventors failing to take account of ALL forces and torques. So yes, there may be an imbalance on one 'side' of the wheel, but the torques and forces in for example the chain or pulley are not taken into account. Hence Newtonians (I fall into this category) argue gravity wheels are impossible, and this argument is supported by the absence, throughout human history, of a single working example.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 12, 2011, 11:29:51 PM
@ Low-Q: Do you or anyone you know have a math formulae That proves the impossibility of a gravity driven wheel? Im talking about using weights and gravity in a wheel.
If you one day discover that a stone falls back to the ground in a greater speed than what you applied to it when throwing the stone in the air, you would have the proof that says gravity wheels will work.

Anyways. The simplest equation should be this:
Total potential energy in a gravity wheel = (mass x altitude) + (mass x (-altitude) = 0.
An example: (1kg x 1m up) + (1kg x 1m down) = 0. You gain potential energy when lifting 1kg 1m up. Letting the same 1kg travel 1m down, and the 1kg are back to its initial point. At the end of the cycle there will not be any excess energy. It could likely just stayed at the same level all the time. Zero excess energy in any case. A weight which is following a rim with a given radius, will move up the same distance as it moves down. Why should this wheel work?

Any mass preserves its weight unless the gravity suddenly change. Gravity are conservative, not changing, therfor mass will allways preserve its weight. To make a gravity wheel work, the gravity must apply less force on the weights on their way up, and gravity must apply more force on the weights on their way down. If gravity doesn't change at all, no work can be carried out by a gravity wheel. The proof are very simple, but people just don't want to listen. What I write down here is meaningless - a waste of time, work for nothing. It will not change peoples beliefs. People must fail in order to learn. For some people, failing over, and over, and over again is not enough to proove them wrong.

What makes people blind to understand why gravity wheels cannot work, is the path of the weights, its complexity, the appearently overbalanced configuration - which to the eye proofs a working machine. What most people forgets, is the time and velocity factor that applies to an object that is altering its path through a complete cycle, or is not following a circular path, or is not having a constant velocity during one complete cycle. The velocity change also affects the torque. Less velocity, greater torque - energy (velocity x torque) are conserved in both sides of the wheel. Therfor it will not work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 13, 2011, 02:08:48 AM
The trouble some people put themselves (and others,)
through, (even, providing formulae), to justify their own
personal beliefs ----- beggers belief!  You can have a
personal belief, right, or wrong, about any subject you
like, but it becomes wrong to FOIST your beliefs on to
someone, as if it were a'law'of physics ------ because it
hasn't been done -- yet-- doesn't mean it CAN'T BE
DONE.

BILL.

P.S.  It was 'proven', at one time, that a bee can't fly!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on May 13, 2011, 02:17:04 AM
So where is a picture or any video ?

Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 13, 2011, 02:31:05 AM
So, Low -Q: To make a long story short you have NO PROOF, just because it hasnt been done before is NOT proof. If I have a 4 lb. hammer head and let fall 10 feet, how flat will it smash a .4834 dia lead ball? Now take the same hammer head and  fix a 5 foot lever to it. We will now let it fall the same 10 ft. in height but make it take a longer path, 181 degrees to be exact and again it will impact a .4834 lead ball, how flat will the lead ball be now?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 13, 2011, 02:35:40 AM
Low-Q: forgot to ask, how much static weight it would take to get the same result in both cases?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 13, 2011, 02:39:06 AM
quantumangles: are you saying Bessler was a fraud? And if so have you studied the man at all?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 13, 2011, 04:10:03 PM
So, Low -Q: To make a long story short you have NO PROOF, just because it hasnt been done before is NOT proof. If I have a 4 lb. hammer head and let fall 10 feet, how flat will it smash a .4834 dia lead ball? Now take the same hammer head and  fix a 5 foot lever to it. We will now let it fall the same 10 ft. in height but make it take a longer path, 181 degrees to be exact and again it will impact a .4834 lead ball, how flat will the lead ball be now?
The hammer head will hit the ball with the same velocity, given that the lever does not provide air drag or any counterweight. However, if the lever are initially perfectly verical, the lever will never start to fall due to equal balance on each side. You mention 181 degrees. If the initial is vertical upwards, the impact will occour 1 degree beyond the very bottom. Anyways, no matter what path an object is taking; Falling down 10 feet will result in the very same kinetic energy, but time and acceleration factors will differ. Bottom line: The lead ball will deform equally in any case, given that the hammer head hits it with the same surface, and where the lead ball cannot go anywhere.

Also, deformation will depend on the materials properties. Hitting a lead ball extemely fast with a lighter object, might cause the lead to melt due to heat, and deform differently than hitting it with the same kinetic energy provided by a very heavy object very slow. The same as with a bullet from a gun. It will penetrate the body, but the sum of thousands of water droplets, equal to the total kinetic energy in the bullet, will not be able to penetrate the body.
Deformation is a complex thing that we cannot determine by simple equations.

Regarding the proof: I gave it to you. The simple equation - allmost like 1-1=0. The proof also lays in the conservative gravity. If gravity are the "engine", but it does not do anything, the "engine" will ofcourse not provide any energy.

Vidar.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 13, 2011, 04:15:02 PM
Low-Q: forgot to ask, how much static weight it would take to get the same result in both cases?
In order to preserve the same kinetic energy at the impact, the weight must also be equal in both cases. Even if the hammer head goes via the moon and back + 10 feet lower, will in total provide the very same extra kinetic energy at the impact. However all that energy you apply to the hammer head to make it to the moon, will ofcourse make a difference at the impact too. The point is that there is added 10feet x 4lb of kinetic energy at the impact.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 13, 2011, 10:01:38 PM
Low-Q: forget about going to the moon and back, lets stick to problem at hand, a4lb. weight falling straight down 10 ft. impacts alead ball of .4834 dia. how much will it flatten it? The same 4lb. weight on the end of a 5 ft. lever, but now forced to take a longer path, in a half circle, and again impacts the same dia. lead ball. What is the difference in the impacts???
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 14, 2011, 02:43:59 PM
Low-Q: forget about going to the moon and back, lets stick to problem at hand, a4lb. weight falling straight down 10 ft. impacts alead ball of .4834 dia. how much will it flatten it? The same 4lb. weight on the end of a 5 ft. lever, but now forced to take a longer path, in a half circle, and again impacts the same dia. lead ball. What is the difference in the impacts???
OK. I do not have a 4lb hammer head, nor a 0.4834 diametet lead ball. I cannot test this. I am not able to measure the deformation.
The answer to your question in general. The lead ball will flatten equally in both cases. How much, I do not know. If it flattens 0.20930528604 inches in the first experiment, it will flatten 0.20930528604 inches with the lever experiment.
Do you know why? Well, the 4lb hammer head have the same speed and same kinetic energy at both impacts.

Hope this answer will help you out.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 14, 2011, 02:56:19 PM
The trouble some people put themselves (and others,)
through, (even, providing formulae), to justify their own
personal beliefs ----- beggers belief!  You can have a
personal belief, right, or wrong, about any subject you
like, but it becomes wrong to FOIST your beliefs on to
someone, as if it were a'law'of physics ------ because it
hasn't been done -- yet-- doesn't mean it CAN'T BE
DONE.

BILL.

P.S.  It was 'proven', at one time, that a bee can't fly!
It was never proven. It was an uncomplete theory. A proof need to be confirmd in practice. If a bee can fly in practice, that is the proof we need. The same applies to gravity wheel. Both theories and practical experiments points strongly in the direction of a non working wheel. The theory of a non working gravity wheel is not enough, but we have practical experiments in numbers that proves it doesnt work.
We can still believe that a bee cannot fly, but I honestly think that a bee wouldn't care about what we believe, or what our theories should say. Gravity doesn't care either of what we think it is capable of.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 14, 2011, 09:53:21 PM
  Vidar,
 I think people like you miss it. Why not go ask someone why climb a mountain ? It's been done before, nothing new there. But still they do it.
 But then, even you are in this forum. Maybe you are hoping it is possible ?
People wants to learn. Experience things. Nothing wrong about that. People do things and fail, learn from it, and move on. When people do not understand why a gravity wheel doesn't work, and any explanation does not help. Hundred thousands of experiments fails to work. Still some people want to try again; Yes, I wonder why I am here at all.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 15, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
   You might be a skeptic Vidar, but you are curious  :-)
 I did get banned from one forum for saying math supported
perpetual motion. There is a different outline I developed.
 It's basic algebra. There was also Hans von Lieven who mentioned that from 45 to 135 degrees after top center was the prime area for an overr balanced weight to develop force.
 This is because the weights minimum force would be 70.7% of it's weight.
 What I like about all of this is it has helped me with my pursuit of Bessler. Engineering guidelines always help.

                                                                      Jim
The problem is that the weights minimum force applies at 225o and 315o as well. The weights must go back the very same hight to the top in order to repeat the cycle, right? And what have you then gained? If this is not the case, how have you implemented time in the equation?

The basics here is allways the altitude of the weights. Discussing torque or forces isolated from the other factors does not show the whole picture. Force, torque, mass, weight and not least, TIME. Who is considering TIME when constructing gravity wheels? If a torque of 1Nm is applied on one side of the wheel, and 0.5Nm at the other side, doesn't mean that the wheel will run. Time will make sure that the energy on both sides equalize.

 Gravity applies vertically to any object in its field. So vertical (altitude) factors are the only interesting to discuss. How a weight tumbles around in a impressive fasion, isn't interesting. It is all about the vertical axis.

So, what we now need is an alternating gravity field.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 15, 2011, 11:35:56 PM
Low- Q: you were supposed to use your superior math skills to solve the problem, I have already done the experiment! You should have been a politician!!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 16, 2011, 06:38:26 PM
Whilst a lot of you are arguing the 'toss' about whether gravity wheels could work or not---------------------- the answer to MY gravity wheel, would be by studying the drawing/notes, that way you could make
your own minds' up.
My thanks to Vidar, for vouching for my integrity!  (We've been 'in touch', many times before.)
As far as Stephan Harti is concerened ----- 'one day, old son, one day'.  Right now, it's just an idea!

SPANG.     (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 16, 2011, 08:11:53 PM
   Hi Vidar,
 I agree with you completely.
>>  So, what we now need is an alternating gravity field.  <<

 I like the way you ph(r)ased that  :-)
  Since a wheel does rotate, at some point torque would need to be considered.

                                                                    Jim
Torque must be considered. I agreed. But torque isn't more than a tagential force on a lever. Gravity will take care of the torque if we by hand spend energy to position the weight in advance.

Torque alone is not energy. You can have trillions of Nm, but that does not help if the torque isn't making anything to move.

God bless the one who makes the gravity-alternator :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 16, 2011, 08:28:34 PM
Low- Q: you were supposed to use your superior math skills to solve the problem, I have already done the experiment! You should have been a politician!!
I couldn't care less about politics ;) As far as my suprior math skills conserns, I have no higher education than most of you guys. Frankly, I am pretty average (I think).
Maybe you could show me the experiment of yours?

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 18, 2011, 05:08:00 PM
Unortunately, I've come to the conclusion, that very few (if ANY) are interested in my design.
I've sent out a few designs --------- but I've yet to recieve a reply. Loads of promises -----
but as yet ----- zilch!   I wonder if anyone is to blame?  It can't be me, 'cause I'm looking for
answers!

SPANG.     (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 18, 2011, 06:25:45 PM
Unortunately, I've come to the conclusion, that very few (if ANY) are interested in my design.
I've sent out a few designs --------- but I've yet to recieve a reply. Loads of promises -----
but as yet ----- zilch!   I wonder if anyone is to blame?  It can't be me, 'cause I'm looking for
answers!

SPANG.     (BILL.)
The conclusion is pretty simple when it comes to your design, or any design regarding gravity powered devices: You cannot get more potential energy from a system which rises and lowers weights in a rotary fashion versus stright vertical fashion. It is the altitude which is interesting, because gravity happens to be aligned vertically to any horizontal surface.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 19, 2011, 01:40:09 AM
I'm affraid you have misunderstood my design completely, Vidar!
My design does NOT work on the principle that an extra weight causes the overbalancing in the first place.
The device ALREADY overbalances ------------------- I use the'movement' of the weights ------------ TO KEEP IT OVERBALANCED.  Also note please, that TWO weights are moved at the same time ----------- one
at the top, and one at the bottom! Perhaps you think the weight at the top is heavier than the weight at
the bottom ---------------- WRONG ------------- they both weigh the same!  In fact, ALL the weights,
'weigh' the same!  Sorry!

SPANG.       (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 19, 2011, 01:46:38 AM
Thanks for your reply Jim, and GOOD LUCK on your build.
I think that there IS a 'lull' right now.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 19, 2011, 02:52:45 AM
Gravity stores kinetic energy until it hits rock bottom then it equalizes with all other objects that fell to the same state, rock bottom until a gravitational argument is completely 'settled'. using gravity alone as an answer in an argument that will never be settled unless you conform to all the fundamental forces that are required to create what you want to achieve. a force is a pressure of some variant, a force can not have energy without an input(in History) to give it force.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 19, 2011, 03:18:04 AM
Yu've come to the wrong conclusion as well.
I think you should read my last 'post' again. It is ALREADY overbalancing --------- I'm NOT causing it to overbalance. Do yourself a favour ------------ look at the drawing FIRST, THEN come to a conclusion!
Do NOT come to a conclusion, before you've seen the 'evidence'.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 19, 2011, 03:48:32 AM
Yu've come to the wrong conclusion as well.
I think you should read my last 'post' again. It is ALREADY overbalancing --------- I'm NOT causing it to overbalance. Do yourself a favour ------------ look at the drawing FIRST, THEN come to a conclusion!
Do NOT come to a conclusion, before you've seen the 'evidence'.

SPANG.         (BILL.)

in 'history', you would be responsible for giving the force energy. all forces contain energy applied from history alone. nothing more. stored energy. a sort of memory of energy itself. unless you put more input than what is used you will be left with a system with no usable information after it is used.

It is all about 'usable' information period. it is 'all' and everything is information, it just depends on your filter of that information.

how does it feel to be no more than a sophisticated algorithm.

jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 19, 2011, 06:28:23 AM
I won't like YOU on the jury of a case I was involved in ------------- I'd be found guilty, before the
evidence was shown TO the jury!

SPANG.     (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 19, 2011, 05:25:12 PM
I'm affraid you have misunderstood my design completely, Vidar!
My design does NOT work on the principle that an extra weight causes the overbalancing in the first place.
The device ALREADY overbalances ------------------- I use the'movement' of the weights ------------ TO KEEP IT OVERBALANCED.  Also note please, that TWO weights are moved at the same time ----------- one
at the top, and one at the bottom! Perhaps you think the weight at the top is heavier than the weight at
the bottom ---------------- WRONG ------------- they both weigh the same!  In fact, ALL the weights,
'weigh' the same!  Sorry!

SPANG.       (BILL.)
There is more to such a desigh than just the overbalance. There is time and torque also - the very essential factors which determine over unity or not.
I've seen your drawings. As a static device - as one solid unit -, it overbalance.

To easier understand the principle, take away ALL weights except for one. Let it drop on the supposed overbalanced side, and try to gain enough kinetic energy at the bottom to lift it all the way up via the other side plus extra energy to accelerate (Let's assume there is no friction whatsoever). Now it suddenly is quite clear that your design will not work.

Each weight represent a single independent element. If one weight cannot do the work, neither the rest of the weights can. All that matters in the field of gravity is the vertical movement of each weight. If it is limited to travel 1m up and down all the time, the outcome would be quite easy to predict.

What you, and other designers tries, is to let the weights fall 1m, and rise less than one meter, then fall 1m, and again rise less than 1m. This can easily be done by rolling a wheel down a hill. But eventually, the hill will flatten out to horizontal, and the wheel will eventually stop. The last part is the truth about any gravity wheels - it does not change potential energy as it spins, and therfor it will not work.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 19, 2011, 06:57:12 PM
Unfortunately Vidar,
                           You have again missed out the fact, that TWO weights are moved AT THE SAME TIME,
one from the top, and one from the bottom --------- how is that moving one weight 1m, over and over
again, in order to gain an overbalancing force (?)  --------- of a device THAT ALREADY OVERBALANCES?
You yourself, have admitted, that my device already overbalances!
You need to seriously re-evaluate your reasoning.
Sorry Pal!

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 19, 2011, 11:05:56 PM
Unfortunately Vidar,
                           You have again missed out the fact, that TWO weights are moved AT THE SAME TIME,
one from the top, and one from the bottom --------- how is that moving one weight 1m, over and over
again, in order to gain an overbalancing force (?)  --------- of a device THAT ALREADY OVERBALANCES?
You yourself, have admitted, that my device already overbalances!
You need to seriously re-evaluate your reasoning.
Sorry Pal!

SPANG.         (BILL.)
No matter how I tried to explain my point, and no matter how you try to configure the weights, it be 1m, 52cm, two weights at the same time on top and the bottom - it does not matter. You try to achieve greater potential energy than what is limited by the span of the "wheel" and the given measurements of the weights. That is not possible. The span is fixed. Gravity is fixed. Weight of all the weights is fixed - fixed, locked, not changing. There is no way you can get more potential energy out of a system like that. I do not even have to understand your idea to say that IT JUST WONT WORK.

Anyways, I suggest you should build the machine and see for yourself. Then you'll probably get it ;)

PS! No arguing, just very eager to make my point. Almost stubborn ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 20, 2011, 01:51:05 AM
Vidar,
       The long-standing argument I have with you, is simple; you say, that ANY overbalancing device,
cannot work if it does not contain POTENTIAL ENERGY.  As you know, I beg to differ!
If anyone else is of that thinking, then I feel sorry for you ,as you are limiting yourselves to other ways of
doing things ----- they may be unconventional ----- but so is perpetual motion!
From now on, maybe you Vidar, should be known as CAPTAIN POTENTIAL (?)
'Tis a shame, Vidar, to see a man of your obvious ability, to waste your time on obviously stupid ideas,
that end up with you 'going down the tubes'.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on May 20, 2011, 05:03:01 AM
So still no video or graphics of it posted ?
How about posting at least a picture of the design ?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 20, 2011, 05:40:23 AM
Stephan,
            If you know of a way for me to 'post' my design, PLEASE let me know.  I have been told by your
forum, that my files are too big, and am therefor disallowed!
I could, I suppose, send the 'text' of my design, as a 'post', but I need a way to get my DRAWING on display.
The drawing itself, is on an A4 sized sheet of paper --------- this is the one the forum won't let me send.
I realy DO apreciate your 'showing an interest'.

THANKS,   SPANG.  (BILL.)       
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 20, 2011, 11:48:38 AM
Stephan,
            If you know of a way for me to 'post' my design, PLEASE let me know.  I have been told by your
forum, that my files are too big, and am therefor disallowed!
I could, I suppose, send the 'text' of my design, as a 'post', but I need a way to get my DRAWING on display.
The drawing itself, is on an A4 sized sheet of paper --------- this is the one the forum won't let me send.
I realy DO apreciate your 'showing an interest'.

THANKS,   SPANG.  (BILL.)       
You choose a lower resolution in your scanner software. Also, you can scan in greyscale. Reducing resolution from 300dpi to 72dpi will alone reduce the filesize to 1/18.

Or send the drawing to my e-mail, and I will be happy to resize the image for you, and post it in this thread.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 20, 2011, 11:57:56 AM
Vidar,
       The long-standing argument I have with you, is simple; you say, that ANY overbalancing device,
cannot work if it does not contain POTENTIAL ENERGY.  As you know, I beg to differ!
If anyone else is of that thinking, then I feel sorry for you ,as you are limiting yourselves to other ways of
doing things ----- they may be unconventional ----- but so is perpetual motion!
From now on, maybe you Vidar, should be known as CAPTAIN POTENTIAL (?)
'Tis a shame, Vidar, to see a man of your obvious ability, to waste your time on obviously stupid ideas,
that end up with you 'going down the tubes'.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
The problem is this: What APPEARS to overbalance, does in reality not overbalance. It just looks like it. You have torque and time factors which will counterbalance the whole system. One cannot "see" time and torque in a drawing, but you can only see what appears to be overbalance - and by that conclude that the design will work. One must base the truth on all the facts, not just parst of it.

But, we will never agreed in this anyways. I suggest you start building this machine. I would be the happiest man in the world if I'm wrong :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 21, 2011, 01:49:36 AM
Vidar: you should open up your mind, as they say there is none so blind as he who will not see!!! FACT there is no math formula that states that a gravity only wheel is impossible. If you took all the experiments that have been done to date, we would have barely scratched the surface , of how to get a gravity wheel to work!! Have you read about Bessler? I have , and its what changed my mind about gravity only wheels, before I was a BIG sceptic like you! Go Bill!!!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 21, 2011, 02:10:35 AM
Thanks  'Doc'.
I needed that.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 21, 2011, 06:58:05 AM
there has never been a working system that works on one energy source alone, it requires multiple energy sources to get it to work, even an electric motor requires multiple types of energy formula in conjunction to function correctly.

using gravity alone is not going to happen. you need a circle of energy sources that relate to each other to make the other do work.

this is what I call the slave driver philosophy, if there is no one to make the slave do work then the slave will do no work!

same as gravity.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 21, 2011, 07:44:14 AM


Jerry,
       I suggest you join a knitting club --------- knit one, pearl two, drop three, pick up four!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 21, 2011, 11:44:29 AM
Hi all,

Here is the drawing from SPANG, and some text:

THE ALREADY OVERBALANCED WHEEL
                                   ______________________________

The object of THIS design, is to KEEP the already overbalanced wheel---------- overbalanced!

The amount of chain, in the nearly central set of 'wiggly' grooves, is the SAME amount of
chain in the 'outer' groove; they are the same length, and weigh the same amount ----------
only ONE chain though! There IS an extra amount of chain, leading from the nearly central
('wiggly') line of chain, to the 'outer' rim (top)----- the same amount of chain, but in reverse
order, applies to the bottom set-up.
The 'outer' rims' length of chain though, has a center of gravity FURTHER from the hub than the
nearly central set of 'wiggly' grooves ------------ it therefor, overbalances.
Some of the force generated BY this overbalancing, is used to transfer the two different 'sets'
of chain.
I HAVEN'T, AS YET, COME UP WITH A MECHANISM TO DO THE JOB. Maybe someone 'out there' can think
of something? I wouldn't lay money on it though!

As the device rotates, the amount of chain that is displaced by its rotation, is relaced AT THE
SAME TIME!   Top, & bottom.
This replacing of the chain, MAINTAINS the overbalancing.
The ONLY pieces of chain that actualy 'move', are the short lengths of chain, that do the
transfering!
The OTHER lengths of chain, DO rotate, but WITH the wheel, Not INDEPENDANT of it.
The chain is taken out of the center, or outer rim, with the rest of the chain STATIONARY.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 21, 2011, 11:52:38 AM
Vidar: you should open up your mind, as they say there is none so blind as he who will not see!!! FACT there is no math formula that states that a gravity only wheel is impossible. If you took all the experiments that have been done to date, we would have barely scratched the surface , of how to get a gravity wheel to work!! Have you read about Bessler? I have , and its what changed my mind about gravity only wheels, before I was a BIG sceptic like you! Go Bill!!!
I totally agreed to be more open minded. People like you, and Bill, people who never give up the "impossible" have the spirit we all need. What I have said about gravity wheels, I still do believe is truth because of some obvious factors. Ofcourse, please do not let my words stop you guys from trying. Always fun to watch and learn.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on May 21, 2011, 12:15:03 PM
Thanks Vidar,
                  Although we may not see 'eye to eye' on some things, I want you to know that I realy do
appreciate the time and effort you have put in -------- on BOTH our behalfs! THANKS.
Just like anyone, you have the right to your opinion --------- whether I agree, or not! Good Luck ---------
and I hope you're wrong!  (No disrespect.)

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 21, 2011, 01:03:38 PM
Hi Jerry: Mainstream Science is still using that very lame crutch to lean on: "there has never been a wheel that can turn under its own power, therefore it is safe to say there never will be!" DUH! 100 years from now ,if mankind survives, people will say about this generation, "can you believe those Idiots, and how they wasted all those natural resources!!" There are millions upon millions of combinations to use weights and gravity in a wheel, and Jerry study History and you will see where many slaves ended up being the master, because the master "got lazy"
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 21, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
you could always make the gravity wheel work off of a large grand father clock mechanism with weights and chains to reset the mechanisms functions to run on gravity but it still would require a slave driver, your hand resetting the weights every time it is about to run down.

the weight and chains of a clock mechanism is probably the most successful of all gravity assisted devices ever invented and it works.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 21, 2011, 06:42:56 PM
Hi Jerry: Mainstream Science is still using that very lame crutch to lean on: "there has never been a wheel that can turn under its own power, therefore it is safe to say there never will be!" DUH! 100 years from now ,if mankind survives, people will say about this generation, "can you believe those Idiots, and how they wasted all those natural resources!!" There are millions upon millions of combinations to use weights and gravity in a wheel, and Jerry study History and you will see where many slaves ended up being the master, because the master "got lazy"
It is safe to say that mathematics and theory in general supports this statement too. It is not only history which supports the statement. If our mathemathichs was full of errors, we would never be able to land on the moon, nor sending satelites into orbit, nor be able to build one single thing which worked as supposed. Present mathematics are pretty solid. All that we do, make, send into space are based on basic, present, known mathemathics. Why shouldn't the same mathemathics be sufficient to determine the truth about gravity wheels?
If gravity isn't what we think it is, I really think these unknown factors had already been taken care of before we sent people to the moon.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on May 21, 2011, 06:51:29 PM
SPANG

Back in the late 1800s there was a design claim that doubled the chain on the descending side for its overbalance. I have a rough drawing of it but I will have to find it. But I thought you might want to try to look it up. It was found before in some old news papers. A member by the name of "broli" may have been the one who originally posted the links.

I will look on my end to find what information I saved.

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 21, 2011, 10:54:44 PM
Vidar: It was not math that landed the lunar module, but men, and we still dont know exactly what gravity is, what it does yes. And dont get me started on people and their theoretical what nots, because they are the same as bungholes everyone has one!!!! And guess what ? Newton played around with gravity wheels also, at least two that we know of!!!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 21, 2011, 11:00:33 PM
Bill: I apologize for semi- hijacking your thread, rant over! :P
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 21, 2011, 11:42:06 PM
Without calculations they could not land on the moon, nor accurately place and control the Hubble telescope. It is all about gravity and how it affects matter. I am also sure that Newtons wheels did not run. If we base our builds on known factors about gravity, we cannot expect to succeed. We need more than gravity as we know it.
You should know better, but I honestly admire your spirit 'Dr' :)
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Dr on May 22, 2011, 02:34:43 AM
Vidar: Imust respect your opinion even if it is wrong, I suggest therefore we return to our respective corners and call it a day!!! 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on May 22, 2011, 04:01:16 AM
Here is a little extra tidbit for the calculation for space trips. All calculations are as if the earth is the center of our solar system or they may not make it home. I believe it has something to do with the wobble of a solar system.  ;)

Alan

Sorry I just had to add a little in on this subject.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 22, 2011, 09:56:53 AM
The sun and the moon are so far away that their gravity is as weak as a sheet of paper on us humans. Of topics such as this points out that our present knowledge about gravity is sufficciant to determine the outcome of any gravity wheel which is based on a constant force as gravity. The slight difference caused by the moon and sun, is the only applied potential difference which might make a gravity wheel working. On a bigger scale the tidal forces in the sea is the only useable gravity powered machine we know of.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 22, 2011, 10:14:48 PM
I have spent some time to make some calculations on SPANGs design. So here it is with results. The average radius of the folded green part is not (r6+r5)/2 but (((52xPI) + (62xPI)) / (2xPI))1/2

EDIT: It requires energy to lift the weight of the total 6N chain 6cm. This energy will perfectly nullify the total energy consumtion together with the energy consumed by the folded chain, and the energy provided by the blue part of the chain.

The weight of the chain is just taken from thin air. Does not matter how heavy this chain is. The outcome will be zero anyways.

EDIT2: Sorry for any confusion. I've done some miscalculations due to too many numbers at one time (and it's late 11:15 pm), LOL ;D Updated picture and calculations below.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 22, 2011, 11:21:04 PM
Gravity driven clock
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 22, 2011, 11:45:32 PM
The sun and the moon are so far away that their gravity is as weak as a sheet of paper on us humans.
first you say the gravity of the sun and moon are as "weak as a sheet of paper on us"... and then you say:
On a bigger scale the tidal forces in the sea is the only useable gravity powered machine we know of.
so which is it? is the gravity of the sun and moon as weak as a sheet of paper? or is it strong enough to influence billions of tons of water and create tides?... ::) i also find it strange that this "WEAK AS A SHEET OF PAPER" force of gravity that the moon places on us also distorts the earth's crust by centimeters to meters.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 23, 2011, 12:04:23 AM
g = 9.81 m/s2 = 32.2 ft/s2

the earth's gravity is pulling us toward the center of the earth at 32.2 ft/s2 even if we are standing still on a surface. those this figure is not a true constant because the gravitational pull is different all around the world, but it is a given figure for doing formulas.

angular gravitational off balancing would be far far slower than a body falling straight down.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 23, 2011, 10:46:30 AM
first you say the gravity of the sun and moon are as "weak as a sheet of paper on us"... and then you say:so which is it? is the gravity of the sun and moon as weak as a sheet of paper? or is it strong enough to influence billions of tons of water and create tides?... ::) i also find it strange that this "WEAK AS A SHEET OF PAPER" force of gravity that the moon places on us also distorts the earth's crust by centimeters to meters.
To the human body, the pull is similar to a sheet of paper. The sea have a much greater pull because of its relatively MUCH greater mass than the human body. Another thing is that the sea covers most of the earth, and therfor it is able to start oscillating with a tidal wave that travels at approx 1000mph at equator. The tidal wave is greatest towards the moon and 180 degrees behind.

A gravity powered device that weights a few hundred pounds, will therefor not be affected by the moon or the sun in any useable way. Even though the gravity isn't equal on all places on earth, the gravity is pretty much constant, and can therfor not be able to provide energy.

The same applies to magnetism. An AC transformer, need an AC current in order to transfer energy into the secondary coil. Feed the transformer with pure DC current, and nothing happens except when it's connected and disconnected (AC). Alternating forces can do work. A conservative force can't.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 23, 2011, 10:53:22 AM
To the human body, the pull is similar to a sheet of paper. The sea have a much greater pull because of its relatively MUCH greater mass than the human body. Another thing is that the sea covers most of the earth, and therfor it is able to start oscillating with a tidal wave that travels at approx 1000mph at equator. The tidal wave is greatest towards the moon and 180 degrees behind.
so what are you saying now? that the ocean's mass and by proxy its gravity are the cause of tidal surges?? i think you have it backwards now... ::) look lowq, i know how the tides work, hell, i even include the sun's gravitational effect on the tides, but you didn't answer my direct question at all. i'll repeat it. "which is it?"

A gravity powered device that weights a few hundred pounds, will therefor not be affected by the moon or the sun in any useable way. Even though the gravity isn't equal on all placed on earth, the gravity is pretty much constant, and can therfor not be able to provide energy.
::) tides... hello?  anybody home?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 23, 2011, 11:04:05 AM
so what are you saying now? that the ocean's mass and by proxy its gravity are the cause of tidal surges?? i think you have it backwards now... ::) look lowq, i know how the tides work, hell, i even include the sun's gravitational effect on the tides, but you didn't answer my direct question at all. i'll repeat it. "which is it?"
 ::) tides... hello?  anybody home?
No, I'm not home. I'm at work ;)

Ofcourse the sun also provide tidal forces. When the tides are highest is when the moon and the sun "cooperates" most efficiently. We call in "springflo" in Norwegian, but google translate couldn't find good translations other than "tides" for this phenomenon.

I apologize for any bad english. What I think in my head, do not always come out properly in english... I'm an engineer, not an English teacher ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on May 25, 2011, 07:02:02 PM
Did this thread suddenly went dead?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 26, 2011, 06:39:23 AM
  Vidar,
 Yep. Did have one idea for a wave generator. Posted it. But it didn't generat much interest.
 Myself, have about lost my interest in Bessler. It is a lot of work and nothing really in it. If it works, Yeah ! Germany.
 Other than that, it probably won't go over like most people will believe it will.
It would make the news, doubt much more than that.
 Could be why Bessler was unhappy. It didn't have anything to do with money.
Lack of appreciation for his accomplishment was most likely it.
 After all, what I posted has drawn little attention. Yet it would allow for
2.2 lbs./ 1 kg to lift 4.4 lbs./2kg the same height as the drop.
 And once the engineering is demonstrated, boring. That's reality.

                                                                  Jim

Bessler invented a clock mechanism that worked from weights, nothing more, go see a grand father clock mechanism, it should interest you more.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 27, 2011, 11:34:32 PM
It's a clock mechanism with pendulum and weight and pulley and a gyro.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nDqIuKRvkyM/TEntu_fPvSI/AAAAAAAAAsw/rtHcwNKo0Ao/s1600/BesslerOrffyreusWheel.png&imgrefurl=http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6108-bessler-wheel-how-i-see.html&usg=__yVPJtjMdH5zNVOA8UhWh1tZl0jo=&h=438&w=700&sz=492&hl=en&start=17&zoom=1&tbnid=OdypOVkNB5bPfM:&tbnh=99&tbnw=158&ei=VRjgTYSHCZHmsQOVh9ibBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbessler%2Bclock%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D589%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=699&vpy=121&dur=5617&hovh=177&hovw=284&tx=177&ty=96&page=2&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:17&biw=1024&bih=589

what is this something in nature?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 28, 2011, 02:51:51 AM
I am sorry, Bessler used the big wheel which I call a gyro as a means to slow the unreeling of the mechanism as the weight dropped.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on May 28, 2011, 03:40:22 AM
  That's oky. What is missed sometimes is that some of Bessler's drawings are like blue prints. They'll show the same object from different angles.
 Mt 138 is one example of him doing this.

not different angles. just different times. you will still come to the ultimate conclusion that 'time' isn't the issue here. if you think other wise then you shouldn't be solving this equation. it is time not angle of approach.

take those pictures in a stack and play them like a video by flipping through them real fast.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on June 01, 2011, 09:28:11 PM
Here is the newest design from User SPANG.

I resized the picture for him.

Here is what he writes as the description:


AN OVERBALANCING WHEEL
                                 ______________________

This device, is a very simple overbancing device. There's nothing complicated about it, and
it should be very simple to build.
The 'top-wheel' is simply two 'chaincogs' _________________ one, twice the size of the other.
Also shown in this drawing, are the two return sides of the chains, which return 'slack'.
These two return chains, are shown as dotted lines --------- .  The two taut chains, as solid
lines. The ratio between the two chaincogs, is 2:1


The 'bottom wheel(s)' are slightly more complicated, as this set-up uses 4 chaincogs!  The
ratio is still the same though ______________ 2:1 (not counting the two very small wheels,
in the 6 O'clock position).  More on these wheels  __ in a moment.  The largest of these two
main bottom-wheels, is also of the 2:1 ratio, with the smaller wheel.  The smaller of the two
main bottom-wheels, is used  in conjunction with one of the very small wheels (6 O'clock),
which connects with the other very small wheel (also 6 O'clock), which, in turn, connects with
ANOTHER  larger wheel, same size as the larger bottom-wheel, but now travels at HALF the speed
as the other large bottom-wheel.    Although I said, 4 chaincogs, there are, in fact, 5!
2 large, 1'medium', and 2 very small wheels.
Fixed to the middle of the two main cogs, is a device I've simply called 'the tension-rod'.
This rod is 'pulled' down, (no need for gravity), untill the desired force is obtained.  This
gives two seperate forces of 10kgs, at the speeds required.  (TENSION).
I think you'll find it overbalances!

By the way, NO machine, can tell if 'real' weights are used, they only 'feel' A FORCE!  Watching
'real' weights falling, is the SAME as watching two chains moving ------- exept, these chains
replace themselves.

Neither taut, or slack chains alter their length!

Refer to drawing, at ALL times.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on June 02, 2011, 12:27:57 AM
Here is the newest design from User SPANG.

I resized the picture for him.

Here is what he writes as the description:


AN OVERBALANCING WHEEL
                                 ______________________

This device, is a very simple overbancing device. There's nothing complicated about it, and
it should be very simple to build.
The 'top-wheel' is simply two 'chaincogs' _________________ one, twice the size of the other.
Also shown in this drawing, are the two return sides of the chains, which return 'slack'.
These two return chains, are shown as dotted lines --------- .  The two taut chains, as solid
lines. The ratio between the two chaincogs, is 2:1


The 'bottom wheel(s)' are slightly more complicated, as this set-up uses 4 chaincogs!  The
ratio is still the same though ______________ 2:1 (not counting the two very small wheels,
in the 6 O'clock position).  More on these wheels  __ in a moment.  The largest of these two
main bottom-wheels, is also of the 2:1 ratio, with the smaller wheel.  The smaller of the two
main bottom-wheels, is used  in conjunction with one of the very small wheels (6 O'clock),
which connects with the other very small wheel (also 6 O'clock), which, in turn, connects with
ANOTHER  larger wheel, same size as the larger bottom-wheel, but now travels at HALF the speed
as the other large bottom-wheel.    Although I said, 4 chaincogs, there are, in fact, 5!
2 large, 1'medium', and 2 very small wheels.
Fixed to the middle of the two main cogs, is a device I've simply called 'the tension-rod'.
This rod is 'pulled' down, (no need for gravity), untill the desired force is obtained.  This
gives two seperate forces of 10kgs, at the speeds required.  (TENSION).
I think you'll find it overbalances!

By the way, NO machine, can tell if 'real' weights are used, they only 'feel' A FORCE!  Watching
'real' weights falling, is the SAME as watching two chains moving ------- exept, these chains
replace themselves.

Neither taut, or slack chains alter their length!

Refer to drawing, at ALL times.
The wheels will start to rotate, but the smaller wheel in the bottom will also move downwards. This will happen because the solid chain to the very right will travel longer per revolution than the other solid chain. The dashed chain (the part with slack) will finally tighten up.

Imagine you have only the solid chains, fixed on the top on each wheel so the wheels are not allowed to rotate more that 1/4 round. What will happen to the bottom wheel? It will go downwards, right?

You can always apply a gear ratio between the outer and inner wheel on the top, but that will also change the torque. There is no way to go with this, I'm afraid.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 02, 2011, 03:35:44 AM
Vidar,
        Re; reply#82.
How on Earth can ANY part of the bottom-wheels' mechanism drop?  If one part 'falls', it ALL falls.
For any part of the bottom-wheels' mechanism to 'fall', it must disengage itself from the rest of the
bottom-wheel,  and fall independantly.  Also, the  bit about the chains eventualy 'tightening up', is
an IMPOSIBILITY!     You must try again, if you want to maintain any kind of credibility!

SPANG.                (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 02, 2011, 04:38:34 AM
Vidar

Bill is correct, You are missing the point of his design. It is an attempt at over driving the wheels by different size wheels. The biggest danger is stress lock up. Several designs that have been done in the past, were killed by stress lock up. I had a V wheel that showed overbalance but the stress lock up killed it as well. Solving this problem is the part I am working on. Bills design gives room to work with, but like my V wheel didn't.

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on June 02, 2011, 05:24:23 AM
>>  It's a clock mechanism with pendulum and weight and pulley and a gyro.  <<

 It would be a lever instead of a gyro. Gyros are used for different things. Such as maintaing a level position to calculate the trajectory of rounds fired from Naval ships.
 I do believe you are refering to a slightly imbalanced wheel that once started, requires little energy to maintain spin. I doubt this because of the mechanics involved. The inertia acting on moving parts would most likely rob the system of needed energy. But if you replace gyro with levers, then it would be an accurate description.

>>what is this something in nature?  <<

 It would be a mill. Or more precisely, the water wheel that was the motive force. A different priciple. They served the same purpose as wind mills, to mill wheat and other crops.
 And best of all, the water remains one one side.

 I don't think it would be much of a stretch to consider Bessler close to being a genius. For what he did and when he did it, he showed remarkable ingenuity.

A wheel in motion is a gyro, period. no matter how fast its R.P.M's are.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on June 02, 2011, 05:30:22 AM
something you didn't include in your calculations, the E.M force is many times more powerful in magnitude than Gravity. most of the gravitational forces you experience are E.M not Gravity. are you really such an idiot to believe gravity is stronger than E.M? when it was already proven to be such. Gravity is such a weak force compared to E.M.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 02, 2011, 05:45:32 AM
onthcuttingedge,
                       This device does NOT use gravity.    And, what's more, I don't care if a spinning wheel
does resemble a giroscope --------- it isn't a giroscope, but it DOES display giriscopic tendancies.
Get it together pal.

SPANG.               (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on June 02, 2011, 05:53:17 AM
onthcuttingedge,
                       This device does NOT use gravity.    And, what's more, I don't care if a spinning wheel
does resemble a giroscope --------- it isn't a giroscope, but it DOES display giriscopic tendancies.
Get it together pal.

SPANG.               (BILL.)

Hi Spang.

I wish I could support you but I can't, I know you will fail, it would of been nice but you are totally wrong in your conclusions, build it, you will see, those rules you should follow are over 100 years old and still sticks today, unless you have something 'they' have not discovered in their life time.

which I doubt.

a wheel is just that, a gyro non the less and nothing more.
Gyro's have been studied till they are blue in the face, they are nothing more than stored energy systems, for the last hundred years these old geniuses are smarter than you even to this day. give up your shit with gravity, someone long ago would of found it long before you did.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 02, 2011, 06:05:33 AM
RE; reply#88


Knit one, pearl two.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 02, 2011, 07:45:27 AM
Do you know,
                  You can SHOW (e.g.) a person, a rotating wheel, or some other object, and they will
deny its existance!
What's wrong with these people --------- are they mentaly ill?

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: fritznien on June 02, 2011, 08:54:12 AM
bill they have too many claims and too little that works.
instead of arguing just build it. looks like a couple bicycle chains and sprockets
would do a proof of concept.
no i am not going to build because i have not a clue of how it would work.
fritznien
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 02, 2011, 09:15:10 AM
I'm not arguing --------------- just hoping to get
answers from sensible people! Are YOU sensible?
All I'm asking for, is a little help, and a little understanding.
I'm quite sure this device will be made soon -----------
with help from people who DO understand -------------
either BY them/him, or by me, with the help I may recieve!
It may, or may NOT work, time will tell.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 02, 2011, 03:34:42 PM
Bill

 I believe fritznien is a sensible person. There have been to many claims. I have several of my own that could claim from the design point of view but only the physical build will do and due to fraudsters, several will still have their doubts until proved beyond a reasonable doubt. This is one reason I don't make solid claims and I don't show prematurely. There are not that many builders and those of us who do build should be helpful to those who cant or don't for what ever reason. 

fritznien

I used leather belts and wooden disk for my first test for Bill. I believe those with a Lego collection should be able to do these first test. Even though it didn't work at that moment there still is some things to evaluate and work with. In value I believe it at least has a minimum of a secondary system. It is not always the goal but what you learn on the way.

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on June 02, 2011, 03:47:07 PM
Bill,

Is the following drawing correct understood?

I could not understand what you wrote about the small wheels (green ones in the drawing below), so please repeat what it says down to the right in the original drawing.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on June 02, 2011, 09:55:14 PM
Is the red and the pink wheel fixed to each other ?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 03, 2011, 12:51:34 AM
Vidar

 I believe you are correct.

_______

Stefan

 
Quote
Is the red and the pink wheel fixed to each other ?

As it is drawn, I believe they are. Will this be the final outcome? I doubt it.  The lower smaller wheels are an attempt to increase torque. I am not sure they will do what is needed. Stress lock up is the first and biggest conflict to break through. So the question is. How can we get the overdrive to become a positive driving unit without the possibility of stress lock up, or to much back torque. If we can achieve this? We may have a real possibility.
A gravity additive may be needed to achieve this.

Alan

 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 03, 2011, 08:19:15 AM
Hi All,
       From the amount of 'feedback' I've been recieving about the role of the bottom-wheel, I feel
compelled to offer my explanation.

The role of the bottom-wheel, is to supply the top-wheel with what it needs.
The top-wheel needs two identical forces,  (10kgs each) delivered by chains ---------(e.g:),
1 at 1mph, and 1 at 2mph.These speeds are only estimates, and will (most probably), move at a
greater speed. But, the RATIO remains the same    2:1.
The 5 wheels, that ARE (colectively), the bottom-wheel,  at their different sizes, facilitate these
 speeds/forces.
Hope that helps?

Once again, I must stress, the weights (forces), and the chains' speeds, are only EXAMPLES!


SPANG.                (BILL.)
































 1 at 1mph, and 1 at 2mph.  The 5 wheels, the bottom-wheel set-up cosists of

Title: Re; An Ode To Tension
Post by: SPANG on June 04, 2011, 09:21:29 AM
Hi All,
       I realy don't know where to 'post' this little 'ditty', so I've decided to 'post' it here.

                                         An Ode To Tension
                                         ________________


Tension weighs nothing.
Tension CAN produce a force that matches gravity ---- even betters it!
Tension has many advantages over gravity, one of them is; it can produce a 'gravity-like'
force in ANY direction ------------- gravity can't.
Tension can be 'turned off' ----- gravity can't.
A Tensioner added to a chain, can make that chain 'appear' as if it WAS a weight -------
but  isn't!
TENSION CAN WORK IN SPACE, GRAVITY CAN'T!
I think Tension, is more versatile than gravity.

I bet some of you 'out there', can think of even more ------------ let's hear them!


SPANG.              (BILL.)

     
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 04, 2011, 02:34:10 PM
Re; reply # 95


Stefan,
          Yes they ARE ------ SOLID!


SPANG.              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 19, 2011, 02:34:14 AM
Hi All,
      I think that ALL o.u's, overbalancing wheels etc..,
will owe their functioning to the manipulation of KNOWN
physics ------- NOT new physics!
As far as I know, ALL types of o.u.  devices, use known
physics.

SPANG.         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on June 19, 2011, 03:44:14 AM
one will not run a perfect spacecraft with an over balanced wheel. just won't happen, clear your minds and wrap them around a perfect spacecraft then you'll become more in the lead to finding the perfect energy source to all our needs, the rest is garbage.

the 'perfect' energy source will not only work on a planet but also in deep space and as well have no moving parts. preferably, no degradable parts if possible.

this is called the 'ideal power source' and is much preferred.

Jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 19, 2011, 05:42:30 AM
Jerry,
      I'm sorry, but I have NO intention of powering ANY
spacecraft with my design.
My design, is for the generation of a perpetualy rotating
wheel -------------- if it is used for the generation of
electricity -------- good!
To be perfectly honest with you, I don't know where
you're 'coming from'.



SPANG.              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 19, 2011, 06:19:15 AM
What I should have added was;   ALL energy production today, uses KNOWN physics.
If there is another form of physics, (that we don't know about), that is used to produce energy, do us
all a favour, TELL US!




SPANG.                 (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 19, 2011, 03:38:51 PM
What I should have added was;   ALL energy production today, uses KNOWN physics.
If there is another form of physics, (that we don't know about), that is used to produce energy, do us
all a favour, TELL US!




SPANG.                 (BILL.)

Bill

 The problem is known physics is flawed. Until we fully understand gravity and other phenomenons  our equation are subject to be wrong.

 
Quote
“We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up until now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.”

Quote By Max Planck father of Quantum physics 1858 - 1947

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 19, 2011, 04:29:37 PM
Alan,
      ALL known energy IS produced by 'KNOWN'   so-called 'laws' ------ I'm quite sure we basicaly understand
these  'laws' --------- even if we don't agree with them.  I agree, we don't understand EVERTHING there is
to know about certain things, but I think we know enough to make calculated decisions.  It's quite possible
that we may 'stumble' upon a variation of these so-called laws, that may help us all in our quest for FREE-
ENERGY.


SPANG.               (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 19, 2011, 11:32:28 PM
Alan,
      ALL known energy IS produced by 'KNOWN'   so-called 'laws' ------ I'm quite sure we basicaly understand
these  'laws' --------- even if we don't agree with them.  I agree, we don't understand EVERTHING there is
to know about certain things, but I think we know enough to make calculated decisions.  It's quite possible
that we may 'stumble' upon a variation of these so-called laws, that may help us all in our quest for FREE-
ENERGY.


SPANG.               (BILL.)

 Science is as we know today, but we have much to learn. The Laws of science have been used as absolutes. There is no absolutes, but only as we know them as of today. Being so called laws puts our knowledge in a box. To truly progress we have to think out of the box and unfortunately fright those who the box have closed their eyes. The largest lesson is to learn that we truly don't know much and a life is to learn to pass it on in hopes the next generations may have it better. So one day we won't be wiped out by a big rock but branch out into the universe, and survive as a species. 

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on June 20, 2011, 08:19:47 PM
What I have seen in most attempts (Those I understand) to build an overunity device, is that the inventor is using conventional, well established physics to reach their goal. How in the green forrest are these inventors able to make an overunity device by using already known physics (which denies that over unity is possible)?

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 20, 2011, 10:29:34 PM
What I have seen in most attempts (Those I understand) to build an overunity device, is that the inventor is using conventional, well established physics to reach their goal. How in the green forrest are these inventors able to make an overunity device by using already known physics (which denies that over unity is possible)?

Vidar

 Simple logic Vidar

 when a machine shows over unity using known devices. It is proof that physics is incomplete. LOL Then they will have to adjust there equations and we will advance even more.  ;)

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 21, 2011, 01:32:41 AM
To reply # 106
Vidar,
        My answer is simple -------------------- they've got it wrong!
And how many times have these 'laws' been 'adjusted ' to compensate for their incorrectness etc..?
Try reading what I said, in reply #105.



SPANG.                              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 21, 2011, 05:14:29 AM
Hi All,
       I just remembered a time (on another site), where I had 'posted' an idea, and received a reply from a
'disbeliever' ----- if you like, ----- who basicaly told me to dismantle my device, to 'prove' it could not work!
              I told him, to take himself into his back-yard, pull his bottom lip over his forehead, and suck!
 I didn't hear from him again!




SPANG.                 (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 25, 2011, 06:00:23 AM
TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS ON THIS SUBJECT!
                                                                If you all care to check the numbers of your 'posts', you will find
they've all stuck!   MY numbers are stuck on 58 --------- from page 1, to page 8!   I have reported this to
the moderator, AND to STEFAN, but nothings been done --------- sorry, not my fault!


SPANG.                 (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 25, 2011, 04:20:05 PM
TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS ON THIS SUBJECT!
                                                                If you all care to check the numbers of your 'posts', you will find
they've all stuck!   MY numbers are stuck on 58 --------- from page 1, to page 8!   I have reported this to
the moderator, AND to STEFAN, but nothings been done --------- sorry, not my fault!


SPANG.                 (BILL.)

Bill

 Sorry  ::)  But here is your V8 moment. They all change to the amount of post you have posted. They are now 59 and when you post again it will change again to 60 then 61 etc.  Not a problem LOL

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 26, 2011, 05:30:37 AM
Alan,
       All YOUR replies have the same number ---- 993.   The same applies to all the rest, who have made 'posts' --------- different numbers, of course ----------- but 'stuck'.


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 26, 2011, 03:47:03 PM
Bill

 It is to tell you how many total post your name has given. This way no matter where you post the counter keeps up with you.

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 26, 2011, 03:58:06 PM
Alan ,
       Now, all of yours read the same, 994. Something is seriously wrong!



SPANG.                 (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: gyulasun on June 26, 2011, 05:05:28 PM
Hi Bill,

Here is a picture how I can see this thread in my display. (I use Firefox for web brewser and Windows XP.)
So your last post above has got a Reply #115 on my screen and you can see 994 on your screen?

Gyula
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 27, 2011, 08:07:51 AM
Hi Guyula,
               Although I can read your message, the numbers for each individuals 'posts', STILL read the SAME
for each 'post', since page 1.  MY number reads; 61, but will change to 62 after this message has been posted ------- so will ALL my previous 'posts'.




SPANG.         (BILL.) 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 28, 2011, 03:26:32 AM
Bill

 It is just a simple counter like an odometer to your sign in name. If you change your name they all will change, the same way. But you have to get Stefan for that I believe. I wouldn't do it though.

Alan
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 28, 2011, 03:32:54 AM
Alan,
       I've already tried Stefan, he said 'someone' will look at it --------- who that 'someone' is, I don't know.
But they haven't -------- have they?


SPANG.                  (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 29, 2011, 06:00:34 PM
Alan,
      Just out of curiosity, you must have 'collected' many different parts of various types of machines, to go
toward your 'collection' of parts that you could choose from to make your own free energy device,
so my question to you is; have you got enough so far, or do you 'need' more -------- more would be nice, but
have you got enough  to take your own 'stab' at it?



SPANG.                                      (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: AB Hammer on June 29, 2011, 07:33:32 PM
Alan,
      Just out of curiosity, you must have 'collected' many different parts of various types of machines, to go
toward your 'collection' of parts that you could choose from to make your own free energy device,
so my question to you is; have you got enough so far, or do you 'need' more -------- more would be nice, but
have you got enough  to take your own 'stab' at it?



SPANG.                                      (BILL.)

Bill

For the projects to work with you. I am low in parts at this time. Chains would be needed but Timing belts work good as well, but old bicycle chains would be cheaper to purchase or find like in a junk yard. Most parts I build myself otherwise minus bearings of course. Also it will be the later part of Aug to start. Since you have sent me a few designs I will need to make it adjustable to alter to each version due to the similarities of each design. This would be the most logical approach. Then once we see what will or will not happen. That is when changes and new approaches can be applied. This is the best way IMO to go about builds.

Alan

PS Like I have said before. Over driven devices are prone to lock up. So until proven one way or the other, relax and take it easy and keep your pencil and paper handy for alternatives.  ;)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on June 30, 2011, 12:52:39 AM
Alan,
       I wasn't  specificaly talking about me!  I meant 'in general'.  It just seems to me that you must have,(over the years) , collected quite a few items of interest,  that you could choose from to make your own
free energy device.  Unfortunately, I've been working on many different types of design, that have taken me
about 40 years -------------- thousands of designs,  I should think !
People like me, have left the likes of Bessler, way behind.  I've been working on different designs (and I
mean THOUSANDS of designs), over an extended period of time (and DON'T regret it), and I'm just one man!
I, like others I should think, go through different 'phases' from time to time --------- hence, the similarity of
designs I've sent you recently!  Boy, you must have quite a 'collection' by now.
GOOD LUCK!




SPANG.                 (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 09, 2011, 02:01:53 PM
Hi All,
       I've been asked by a certain 'someone', to 'have a go', and build the device under discussion here!
Before I informed you all of THIS device ----------- I was already gathering together, the pieces for a totaly
different design (I have many designs), that I have virtualy completed.
I'll put this 'new' design together, and let you all know how I get on, O.K?


SPANG.                           (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: fritznien on July 09, 2011, 10:23:59 PM
bill out of the thousands of designs, how many ever self ran, produced more energy than they consumed.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 10, 2011, 01:03:22 AM
Fritznien,
            Thanks for your reply.  With regards to my 'new' device, it just MAY work!
There again, it just might NOT!  I can, of course tell you this, and I think you might agree ------------------ if
it DOES work, it sure won't be a 'one-off'.  Once the principle of the device is known, there will be untold
devices made ---------------- that may, or may not ---------------- look very similar!
This type of device (no matter what the principle is,) will be coppied, in various ways, by various people,
all over the World.   In next to no time, there'll be countless types.  Then the race, will realy 'be on'!



SPANG.                         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: fritznien on July 10, 2011, 02:09:29 AM
 then that would be a no none of them worked.
as for this design i don`t like the thousands to one odds.
fritznien
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 10, 2011, 02:24:43 AM
Fritznien,
              So far!
It appears to me, that you've 'given up' without even trying -------- never mind!



SPANG.                     (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 10, 2011, 05:58:24 AM
I'll tell you something for nothing -------------- if the likes of Albnert Einstein told me it
was raining outside -------------------- I'd go and have a look!






SPANG.                           (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: fritznien on July 10, 2011, 06:19:26 AM
given up or gone with mundane stuff that works.
i have a long list of completed projects that go back as far as your`s.
i`m ahead over 100,000 litres of furnace oil and gasoline plus a lot of kw hrs of electricity
and counting.
 a man who reaches for the moon reaches higher than a man who picks a penny out of the mud.
but i still have the penny and i like those odds.
 fritznien
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 10, 2011, 06:24:59 AM
this is the best place on earth to waste your time on earth. waste it all you want.

 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 10, 2011, 06:34:14 AM
I'VE still got the penny ---------- but I' m not reaching for the Moon, I'm reaching for the stars!

SPANG.                            (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on July 31, 2011, 06:33:49 PM
Does anyone know how to resize a drawing and some notes for me?
It is to be 'posted 'under mechanical set-ups.




SPANG.              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on July 31, 2011, 11:48:05 PM
I have already given you a few 1-2-3 instructions. You might have overlooked them. It is the scanner software. Select a lower resolution in the properties section in the scanner software before you confirm the actual scan process. That's all. 72 DPI is default web resolution. Use that, not 300 DPI as in default resolution.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 01, 2011, 01:39:27 PM
Sorry low-q,
                 I cannot access the scanning equipment.



BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 02, 2011, 02:24:35 AM
I want to thank you all, for your help -------- NONE!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 02, 2011, 08:53:30 AM
I want to thank you all, for your help -------- NONE!

LowQ and others have already tried to help you countless times but, for some reason, you ignore their help so....you should look into the mirror before posting.

Bill
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 07, 2011, 05:13:16 AM
Pirate,
         Read message #123 --------------- try to help, instead of being 'funny' ---------- you're not
getting anywhere, only making a fool of yourself ----------- grow up!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 07, 2011, 08:27:47 AM
Over 8,000 times, this 'thread' has been accessed.  It's hard to believe, not one (1), is cappable of , or
willing to --------- help!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2011, 08:39:31 AM
Pirate,
         Read message #123 --------------- try to help, instead of being 'funny' ---------- you're not
getting anywhere, only making a fool of yourself ----------- grow up!

I am grown up and I am also funny.  You, however are neither.

Bill
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 07, 2011, 08:56:58 AM
You stupid person.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2011, 07:01:16 PM
You stupid person.

Wow, what a clever response.  How long did it take you to think that one up?  I mean, I am really impressed man.  No sense in matching wits with you if you are able to post such intelligent and entertaining responses like that one.  I know when I am beat.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 08, 2011, 12:11:56 AM
Stop being sarcastic, and grow up. You're getting nowhere ----------------- IDIOT!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 08, 2011, 11:15:14 AM
Stop being sarcastic, and grow up. You're getting nowhere ----------------- IDIOT!

You might be right.

Bill
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: mrclean on August 09, 2011, 01:48:37 AM
Hi All,
        Apparently, my file is too big to 'post', but if you like, I'll send it to you as an attachment to an email.
It's about a design for an overbalancing wheel.
You might be pleasantly surprised!

SPANG.
Hey man, is your design built? never heard of this, but im interested to see what you got.
kurtkaukinen@ymail.com
Im kdkinen on you tube, ive got a working Perepiteia motor/gen.
& im working on Don Smith that runs on 2 amps & puts out 20amps, but am always lookin at new stuff... just in case :)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 09, 2011, 10:42:10 AM
Sorry low-q,
                 I cannot access the scanning equipment.



BILL.
So what equipment do you use to send me your drawings?
Scanner model?
Is it connected to your PC?
How are you able to make a digital copy of your drawings if you haven't access to the scanning equipment?
Are someone else doing the scanning for you? If so, ask them to change the resolution settings.

If you tell me what kind of equipment you are using, I will make a "How to" guide for you - for free.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 09, 2011, 10:59:09 AM
Hey man, is your design built? never heard of this, but im interested to see what you got.
kurtkaukinen@ymail.com
Im kdkinen on you tube, ive got a working Perepiteia motor/gen.
& im working on Don Smith that runs on 2 amps & puts out 20amps, but am always lookin at new stuff... just in case :)
Is that correct? What is the voltage reading at 2 amps versus 20 amps. What is the phase between voltage and current? What is the RMS readings (Average effective readings during one cycle)? What is the Watt readings pr. second (or Joules) in versus out?

I have also made a circuit which is applied 50V AC at 200Hz where the input current is 0.2A (Appearently 10W in), and the internal circuit current is 7A at 50V AC (Appearently 350W out). The problem is just that there is almost 180 degrees phase shift (177 degrees to be more accurate) between current and voltage inside the circuit. That means there is not more energy in the circuit than what I put in...

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 09, 2011, 10:59:12 AM
Hello Vidar,
                 I sent my drawings/notes etc.., to you, as an email.
I have no problems, sending emails to anyone.  I have tried to access the scanning equipment, to alter
the settings etc.., but to no avail ---------- I think something is seriously wrong with the equipment.
The laptop is made byToshiba, and the printer/scanner is made by Hewlet Packard  (C4780).

SPANG.                                   (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 09, 2011, 11:02:50 AM
OK, so you have a printer/fax/scanner in one box? I'll see what I can figure out.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 09, 2011, 01:03:54 PM
Thanks Vidar,
                   I hope you CAN sort things out!     By the way, the Toshiba laptop is wireless, and so is the
printer/fax/scanner.  (Bt homehub.)
Although, I still have the cable (ethernet?), which can still be used (it's availasble), if required.
Thanks, my freind,

SPANG.                         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 09, 2011, 03:45:16 PM
Your scanner have a display with some "buttons" on it. In the Home menu you can probably change the resolution settings for "Scan to PC" option. if this is not an option, you have to live with the resolution this machine is fixed to. I'll bet there is software for this machine too. I'll also bet there is possible to scan a document from your computer by using this software, instead of pressing on the machine directly. This (possible) software has most probably several settings you can change - also scanner resolution.

On your computer screen, click START, ALL PROGRAMS. In the appearing list, you should see "HP...utilities...something" somewhere on the list. Open it an select the utility you want to use.

Please refer to the HELP menu (if applicable) for further assistance.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on August 09, 2011, 06:46:49 PM
Spang ( Bill)
here are some videos on youtube, which shows you how it works to resize a picture
with the free program Irfanview which you can download freely
at
www.irfanview.com


Today you can learn so much on youtube, it is the best video teacher !


How To Resize Photos Using IrfanView

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IMR5E8s0TE

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Y0IOlZjwg
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: hartiberlin on August 09, 2011, 07:13:34 PM
Spang,
here is how to post a picture here as an attachment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOLT-p9Y5xI

The only important thing is around 0:26  to about 0:33 minutes in it,
where it shows you how to look on your harddrive for the attachment file name...

All the rest of the video you can forget... sorry, did not find a better video for this...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: weri812 on August 10, 2011, 02:12:08 AM
@SPANG  and others


here is your file in pdf  form

thanks 
wer
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: mrclean on August 10, 2011, 02:58:07 AM
Is that correct? What is the voltage reading at 2 amps versus 20 amps. What is the phase between voltage and current? What is the RMS readings (Average effective readings during one cycle)? What is the Watt readings pr. second (or Joules) in versus out?...."

Vidar
i know its off topic here, but Yes:) i need to measure all those things you mentioned, but the input is 70-110volts @2 amps going to the NST, & the output killed my voltmeters & reads a fluctuating 12-25 AMPS. The load is a series of ten, 12 volt dc automotive swithes which can each handle 30 amps.
Heres an older vid of it on low with readings. Meter seems to tell the truth here :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8HzKc5yao&feature=relmfu

The present state of the project has sparks in between winds on L-2 that look like Grinding steel (amps?), & the other half of L-2 has a bright UV appearance (volts?) with loud crackling, i can stretch the arcs out about 6mm WITH amps....... Lovin it :)
But i am about to assemble my Kapanadze from the ACTUAL schematic im lookin at here, once i figure out where to get the right HexInverter... whatever that is Lol

Awesome about your work as well buddy!
Cant wait to be driving down the road in an EV, driven by Perepiteia Regen/Acceleration, powered by a Don Smith, powered by a tiny amplifier as you describe :)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 10, 2011, 06:20:53 AM
Thanks Wer,
                 I have to be honest though, I meant for you to 'post' it under the THREAD of ;  MECHANICAL
FREE ENERGY DEVICES,  not as its title!  Never mind.
Nice work you did on the documents!
THANKS!

SPANG.                         (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 10, 2011, 09:01:00 AM
Thanks for your help Vidar -------- it'll probably take some time to sort thinks out, but with what you've
told me, and Stefans help ------------------ I should get by.
THANKS.



BILL.

P.S. My thanks also to Stefan.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 11, 2011, 10:05:03 AM
No good, Vidar,
                      I've tried all I can --------- but it just wont work.   Thanks anyway!



SPANG.                              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 11, 2011, 10:17:41 AM
Does anyone know of a descent 'FILE SHARING'  Co, that is easy to download files etc..?

I'd be very appreciative, if you did!

SPANG.                          (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: weri812 on August 12, 2011, 03:20:15 AM
hello spang

you can use this site too

http://www.4shared.com


Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 12, 2011, 05:20:51 AM
Thanks Wer,
                 The site I'm using right now, was given to me by STEFAN --------------- it works just fine, but
I'll keep 'your's' on file --------------- just 'in case'!
Thanks for all your help --------------------- I couldn't have done it without you!


SPANG.                            (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 12, 2011, 05:34:55 AM
you are wasting our time unless you use heat and or electricity to fulfill the model.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 12, 2011, 05:45:45 AM
Knit one, Pearl two.

The above answer is because you took far too long to answer.
Anyway, because of that, I see you as a 'troublemaker'.
How's your 'flying saucer' going?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on August 12, 2011, 05:54:14 AM
Knit one, Pearl two.

The above answer is because you took far too long to answer.
Anyway, because of that, I see you as a 'troublemaker'.
How's your 'flying saucer' going?

the funny thing is, a flying saucer is not perfect. how long will it take you to be on the same page.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 12, 2011, 06:12:04 AM
To the 'flying saucer' man,

Knit One, Pearl Two,

 

Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 13, 2011, 05:21:12 AM
Hi All,
       I was thinking, if the device is set up properly, and it doesn't rotate, what would happen if the 'top-wheel'
was given a manual clockwise 'turn' ----------------- would it help?
Thinking along these lines, I wrote to a certain 'someone' ----------- whose name I won't mention right now,
who assured me, that if the device didn't 'lock up' in the first place, it WOULD help, and would carry on
rotating, regardless of the fact, the device never had any 'real' weights to begin with.
I'd like to know YOUR thoughts on this!

SPANG.                              (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 13, 2011, 10:26:44 AM
Hi All,
       I was thinking, if the device is set up properly, and it doesn't rotate, what would happen if the 'top-wheel'
was given a manual clockwise 'turn' ----------------- would it help?
Thinking along these lines, I wrote to a certain 'someone' ----------- whose name I won't mention right now,
who assured me, that if the device didn't 'lock up' in the first place, it WOULD help, and would carry on
rotating, regardless of the fact, the device never had any 'real' weights to begin with.
I'd like to know YOUR thoughts on this!

SPANG.                              (BILL.)
How can I find your drawing? I tried your link (in another thread), but cannot find anything. Could you email it to me so I can resize it and post it here?

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 13, 2011, 10:32:51 AM
Vidar,
      I've allready emailed them to you.  You should ALLREADY have them ------------- if not, I'll resend them
to you, on your private address.

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 13, 2011, 11:52:13 AM
Vidar,
      I've allready emailed them to you.  You should ALLREADY have them ------------- if not, I'll resend them
to you, on your private address.

BILL.
Thanks. The picture attached here.

EDIT. ADDED TEXT FROM BILL:

           UPDATE ON 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT' SET-UP
                         ________________________________________

THE TOP-WHEEL MUST BE' LOCKED' FOR THE FOLLOWING TO TAKE PLACE!

ALL CHAINS ARE 'TAUT' TO START WITH.

THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT', MUST BE IN POSITION TO START WITH.
                          ________________________________________

'Lock' top-wheel.


'JACK'-UP, THE LARGER OF THE BOTTOM-WHEELS', ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, THIS WILL LEAVE
THE OUTER-CHAIN
ON THIS SIDE, SLACK.
 
BY 'JACKING'-UP THIS WHEEL, IT WILL NOT EFFECT THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT'
---------WHICH IS
ONLY PARTIALY CONNECTED TO THIS BOTTOM-WHEEL ---------- ON ITS RIGHT-HAND SIDE ONLY,
(SEE DRAWING),
'CONNECTED TO THE BRIDGING-COG(S)'.

IT WILL THOUGH, LEAVE THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT', 'APPEAR' TO BE HANGING LOWER THAN
IT SHOULD BE.

THIS IS EASILY CORRECTED; BY LOOSENING OFF THE RETAINING NUT, AND TURNING THIS SMALL
TOP-WHEEL
CLOCKWISE, UNTIL 'IT', (THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT'), LINES-UP ITS 'BOTTOM', TO THE
CORRECT
ALLIGNMENT OF THE 'FIXED' SMALL CENTRAL WHEEL OF THE BOTTOM-WHEEL. THE LARGE
TOP-WHEEL, MUST BE
'LOCKED ' DURING THIS PROCEEDURE.

BY TURNING THE SMALL TOP-WHEEL CLOCKWISE, IT WILL LEAVE THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE
CHAIN HOLDING
THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT', SLACK, AND ITS LEFT-HAND SIDE TAUT.

THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE 'FLOATING WHEEL/WEIGHT', IS FIXED TO A 'BRIDGING-COG',
REGARLESS OF THE
FACT THAT IT STILL HAS A SLACK CHAIN ATTACHED TO IT. THIS IS BY COURTESY OF A
'DUPLEX' CHAIN.

TO KEEP THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE LARGE WHEELS' CHAIN SLACK, A 'CRADLE' THAT LIFTS
THE LEFT-HAND
SIDE, IS PLACED IN POSITION AS SHOWN IN THE DRAWING.

THE 'CRADLE' ITSELF, HAS A SERIES OF TOOTHED  SPROCKETS, SMALL, ABOUT 8 'T'
('T'=TEETH) ON EACH
ONE. THE TEETH OF EACH SPROCKET, FIT INTO A 'DUPLEX' CHAIN, THAT GOES COMPLETELY
AROUND BOTH LARGE
WHEELS.

THE 'PIVOT-ROD' DOES NOT MOVE ------- IT SIMPLY ENGAGES THE TEETH OF THE SPROCKET(S)
AND REMAINS
MOTIONLESS.

ONLY THE 'JACK' MOVES ----- AND THAT'S ONLY TO LIFT THE 'CRADLE' ------ ONCE THE
'CRADLE' REACHES
THE REQUIRED HIGHT, IT STAYS STILL.

THE 'JACK' ITSELF, WILL ABSORB 12.5% OF THE TOTAL WEIGHT (DURING, AND
AFTER,'JACKING',) OF THE
'FLOATING' WHEEL/WEIGHT.

THERFORE, IF THE WEIGHT OF THE 'FLOATING' WHEEL IS 20kgs, 10kgs WILL GO TO THE 9
O'CLOCK POSITION
OF THE SMALL-TOP-WHEEL, 7.5kgs GOES TO THE 3 O'CLOCK POSITION OF THE LARGE
TOP-WHEEL, AND 2.5kg
TO THE 'JACK'(THAT SUPPORTS THE CRADLE, THAT SUPPORTS THE LARGE BOTTOM-WHEEL!).

I HOPE I'M RIGHT ABOUT ALL THIS!

THE BOTTOM-WHEEL, IS 'HELPED' TO ROTATE, BY THE POSITION OF THE 'FLOATING-WHEEL'
ITSELF!

REFER TO THE DRAWING -------- AT ALL TIMES!

UNLOCK THE TOP-WHEEL ------------------ IT SHOULD NOW ROTATE!

ANY FORCE THAT WOULD HAVE 'NORMALY' MANIFESTED ITSELF IN THE SLACK PART OF THE
LEFT-HAND CHAIN,
NOW MANIFESTS ITSELF IN THE 'JACK'! THEREFORE, IT PLAYS NO PART IN ADDING TO THE
FORCE ALREADY
MANIFESTING ITSELF, IN THE TOP-WHEEL.


GRAVITY IS NOT REQUIRED
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: ramset on August 13, 2011, 12:07:30 PM
Vidar
Thanks for posting "Spangs" work!

@Spang
Very cool concept  ,so simple in design but very deep in thought .......very interesting !
Can you offer a brief "How it works"??

Thank You
Chet
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 13, 2011, 01:37:18 PM
Hi Chet,
          My thanks to Vidar also!  I did 'post' the text to this design, but it is not here.  I'll try, anyway;
Briefly then, the reason the design is the way it is, is to allow each chain to have forces that DON'T BALANCE,
when they reach the top-wheel,
so that when these forces DO reach the top-wheel, they' OVERbalance'.  Quite unintentionately, but VERY appropriately, I wrote a 'post' (#154), that applies to this type of design, and SHOULD be taken into
concideration, even though the 'post' itself, was not meant for THIS design. By-the-way, this design is one of
many I have, relating to this kind of thing!
Perhaps Vidar will also 'post' the text to this design ---------------- soon!
Hope this helps you ALL!
There is more to be said about this design, but I've tried to be as brief as I could.


SPANG.                               (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: TinselKoala on August 13, 2011, 06:40:09 PM
I am puzzled as to why you are having so much trouble getting your image and your description posted in the same post/thread. Why didn't you simply include your drawing as an attachment to a post, or upload it to this forum's "downloads" section?

Why don't you try modelling your wheel in Phun, to see if you can get it working in a simple simulator?

A drawing, that looks a lot like a lot of other drawings of overbalanced wheels, is just that: a drawing that looks a lot like a lot of other drawings of NON WORKING overbalanced wheels. Even if you can't figure out how to include your drawing in a post, perhaps you could go the "extra mile" and try to simulate its operation in any number of sim programs. Phun is "fun" and should be a part of every designer's toolkit.

Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 13, 2011, 11:11:27 PM
The designe above is now updated with text.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 12:55:30 AM
My 'post ' #154, should be read, as though it was meant for my new design ------------------------ in fact, it
is meant for all the designs, OF THIS KIND!  (New design type.)

SPANG.                             (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 05:34:30 AM
WOW!
         Over 10,000 'hits' ------------- more than I thought I'd get!
It looks as though, people realy DO wan't someone to come good!  With your help, I'll be that 'someone',
so, 'come on train, and get the lead out'! (ELVIS ---------------- G I.Blues)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 06:19:01 AM
Y'know,  it don't matter how many times you get it wrong ---------- you only have to get it right once!



SPANG.                        (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 14, 2011, 09:22:11 AM

spang:

Have you built a working model or prototype of this design yet?  If not, why not?  Designs and theories are cheap, working devices are not.  If you don't have access to the manufacturing means to do so I understand...but this design looks so simple it seems it would be very easy to try out.

Have you done so yet?

Bill
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 10:01:32 AM
Pirate,
        It's good to see that your attitude has changed ---------- GOOD!
No, I haven't built a model of this design yet ------------------- and I doubt if I ever will.   You see Pirate,
I'm 68 years old, had 2 strokes, and a multitude (14?) of T.I.A's,   ( mini-strokes ), I've also had several
major surgery operations on my stomach!
All this has left me disabled ----- I lose my balance easily ----- can't see properly, I now use very thick
'pebble' type glasses, etc..  I could go on, but there is no point is there?
All this happend, many years ago, (12?).  Since then, I've legaly retired ,and don't have any money left
to do anything with!
I'm NOT looking for a 'handout' of any kind, but it would be nice, if one or two of you 'took up the challenge',
and did it for me!

Sorry about all this!


SPANG.                                  (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 14, 2011, 10:21:27 AM
Pirate,
        It's good to see that your attitude has changed ---------- GOOD!
No, I haven't built a model of this design yet ------------------- and I doubt if I ever will.   You see Pirate,
I'm 68 years old, had 2 strokes, and a multitude (14?) of T.I.A's,   ( mini-strokes ), I've also had several
major surgery operations on my stomach!
All this has left me disabled ----- I lose my balance easily ----- can't see properly, I now use very thick
'pebble' type glasses, etc..  I could go on, but there is no point is there?
All this happend, many years ago, (12?).  Since then, I've legaly retired ,and don't have any money left
to do anything with!
I'm NOT looking for a 'handout' of any kind, but it would be nice, if one or two of you 'took up the challenge',
and did it for me!

Sorry about all this!


SPANG.                                  (BILL.)

No need to be sorry.  I am not that far behind you, and I understand 100%.  I am 53 going on 100, if you know what I mean.  I can't see like I used to, or just about anything else.

There are many on here that have the motivation and wherewithal to follow up on promising ideas.  I was just curious why you have not done so and now I know.  I am sorry.

Bill
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 10:36:30 AM
Pirate,
        I bet we're not the only two members in our type of predicaments.(?)
All I can do, is try to help others, to the best of my ability --------- I hope you understand?
Perhaps there IS someone out there....

SPANG.                               (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 14, 2011, 05:11:02 PM
I wrote this next bit on another thread;
         
                      You can get it wrong countless times -------- but you only need to get it right once!




SPANG.                                      (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 27, 2011, 01:16:48 PM
Hi All,
        I thought it might come in handy for you all, if I included this next piece about my design, in this 'post'!
              ______________________________________________________________________

SPANG.                             (BILL.)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 28, 2011, 10:37:05 AM
Just remember that there is the final ENERGY that must be overbalanced. Not weights/torque alone.

The different distance to the common hub will differ the speed of the chains when they move. The kinetic energy in each of them will differ also - as long BOTH move. That means that the chain far away from the hub WILL force the wheel to turn, but that chain will also go "emtpy" sooner than the other chain. So the total energy when we consider TIME and VELOCITY into the equation, the energy that is expressed in the two chains will finally equalize, and the wheel will stop. How are you suppose to supply more chain to the outer part, and still keep track with the inner part, without adding more and more chain to maintain the overbalance? In this simple design, you must supply more chain constantly to keep it overbalanced forever. If you're not, the chains will go "emty" sooner or later. The outer chain will empty first. When that one is emty, what will happen to the wheel when only the inner chain is left? The wheel will reverse, because now the inner chain will overbalance because there is not chain left on the outer part. After that inner chain is empty, you're back on square one. No energy output. No over unity. Discussions, and theories are worthless.

As I have said a thousand times before: Build it, and see for yourself.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 28, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
LOW-Q,
         I don't know where you've got the idea from, that the chain will 'run out', I realy don't!
The chain is 'continuous', --------------------- it CAN'T 'run out'.  What chain IS 'used' ----------
is instantly replaced ------------ NOT 'lost'!
Build it for YOURself, and find out!
Why you continuously, get it wrong ------- beats me!
It's no use telling me, that I'VE got it wrong ------------- YOU'VE got it wrong!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 28, 2011, 04:39:07 PM
LOW-Q,
         I don't know where you've got the idea from, that the chain will 'run out', I realy don't!
The chain is 'continuous', --------------------- it CAN'T 'run out'.  What chain IS 'used' ----------
is instantly replaced ------------ NOT 'lost'!
Build it for YOURself, and find out!
Why you continuously, get it wrong ------- beats me!
It's no use telling me, that I'VE got it wrong ------------- YOU'VE got it wrong!
It's your idea. I do not need to build it to prove anything. I know the outcome already. This is kindergarden physics. You must in some way or another replace the chain. In a closed loop, it will not work because you must lift up the same abount of chain that goes down. In a non-closed loop you must apply chains to make it work. I understand the physics very well in this case. You don't. Sorry. Arguing about who is wrong, will not make your idea work.

Nature "hates" differences. It will not be able to convert from equilibrium to difference. Nature is "by nature" approaching equilibrium - not leaving it. In this process you can harvest useful energy. Your device will work as long the mechanisms approaches equilibrium. When equilibrium is met, no energy can longer be harvested. In the case of your design, it will take just a few seconds. Then you have to "wind" it up again with the same energy you got out of it.

Look closer at your design, no matter how much I misunderstand them, and see for yourself how obvious the outcome will be. Honestly, I am quite convinced that you already know it will not work.

All the best,

Your friend
Title: ,
Post by: SPANG on August 28, 2011, 04:47:21 PM
LOW-Q,
          Stop now, before you make a complete fool of yourself!      Your diagnosis of my design, goes from
one extreme to another.
I could pull apart your opinions, as easy as a-b-c ---------------- and you know it.   STOP!
I will NOT be answering any more of your 'diatribe'!
Title: Re: ,
Post by: Low-Q on August 28, 2011, 09:33:42 PM
LOW-Q,
          Stop now, before you make a complete fool of yourself!      Your diagnosis of my design, goes from
one extreme to another.
I could pull apart your opinions, as easy as a-b-c ---------------- and you know it.   STOP!
I will NOT be answering any more of your 'diatribe'!
As I said, arguing will not make your design working.
We all make fools of ourselves some times, but learns from it and moves on. You think outside the box, and that is great, but sometimes you must move on when a design has no potential whatsoever to generate more energy than it consumes. I have provided the math many times, you decide if the math is wrong, but not by arguing, but by building that damn thing and prove it wrong.

I'll bet my balls that you havent build anything yet. If you've built it, and it works, I'll send you my balls pr. Fedex Economic or UPS.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 29, 2011, 05:58:06 AM
To all of you, who think I should build this device ---------------- see 'post' # 166




BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on August 29, 2011, 01:15:46 PM
The Escimos have a saying: "If you walk as far as you can untill you cant walk anymore, you have walked just half the distance you REALLY can".

You are able to make fine drawings. Operate your scanner. Type on your PC keyboard. No spelling errors as far  I can tell. So why not use that great ability to build something also? A stroke or two does not stop anyone from doing their hobbies, or achieve goals - it just takes longer time. Heavy glasses, and ten thumbs, havent disabled anyone to do what they really want to do - if they really go for it.

In spite of medichal history your disableness is most of all between your ears, your mind - not in the mechanism that your mind/brain controlls; arms, legs, hands, eyes etc. Illness is not going to stop you from doing what you want. You are stronger and more able than you think.

Even if I dont feel sorry for you, the readings in post 166 makes me sad. Bitterness, anger, loss of hope, wrong attitude, is everyones worst enemy. Anyone can change that. You can too. If you can think positively on your worst day, there is hope.

I whish I could help you out more, and I hope you understand that I whish you well.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on August 29, 2011, 03:24:40 PM
I have a feeling, the eskimos were talking about a man of 34, and in perfect health!
I'm twice this age (68), and in very poor health!  I don't smoke, don't drink, and don't gamble ------------I'm
a good boy realy!   Oh yes, I also, don't mess around with other women!
One of the things I suffer from is, C.O.P.D., in other words; an INCURABLE lung desease! I also get very tired,
MANY times per day.  My G.P. (Dr.), has told me NOT to do ANY type of work whatsoever!   Who am I, to
argue with him?  I believe, the fact that I've reached my age at all, is down to doing what I'm told ------------
and NOT what I want to do!   Or, (and I mean no direspect,) what others wish for me -------------- no matter
how well meant!   I ran out of money, a long time ago, so I suspect that's another black mark against me!  I will soon be bringing out a new idea, that I hope, will spur one, or two, of you, (or thousands,) to build !" We'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 07, 2011, 09:13:55 AM
Hi All,
       I've just been reading through the 'posts' made by various people, and I came across this post by
Vidar! (Post # 171).  Without the need to quote him ---------- he says, ' the device WILL overbalance, but will
eventualy come to a standstill, because the section  on the right, "will run out of chain"!
My questions are; what happend to the slack section of chain that REPLACES the taut section of chain, as it is
used?   Where does the chain go?


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 07, 2011, 02:16:00 PM
I've just had a thought ------------------- do you think Vidar has got an extremely small man, who clings to the
chain, waits 3 seconds, and THEN takes the link out, and at the same time MAGICS the chain to disappear?

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 07, 2011, 02:31:21 PM
Hi All,
       I've just been reading through the 'posts' made by various people, and I came across this post by
Vidar! (Post # 171).  Without the need to quote him ---------- he says, ' the device WILL overbalance, but will
eventualy come to a standstill, because the section  on the right, "will run out of chain"!
My questions are; what happend to the slack section of chain that REPLACES the taut section of chain, as it is
used?   Where does the chain go?


BILL.
other options is that the wheels will not turn at all because it is locked in both directions by the taut chain applied to both sides of the center (?).

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 07, 2011, 03:31:37 PM
WRONG!
It is NOT locked up, if it were, why would it rotate, in the first place ------ according to you?
You're clutching at straws, and TOTALY avoiding the questions!
The only reason I continue to argue with you Vidar, is to disuede any followers you may have, from believing
you are right, when you are obviously wrong!


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 07, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
Sorry for writing that reply. Maybe your drawings should contain more information. More drawings from several angles. So there in left no doubt what so ever how the machine is suppose to work. It will also provide yourself a better understanding of your own ideas. A good trick is to imagine how the machine can run in the opposite direction. If you can't, try harder.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 08, 2011, 01:59:36 AM
Vidar,
      Do you realise, YOU are the only person in allmost 12,000, that has asked for more drawings from
different angles, in order to understand my design more?  I  don't need to visualise my design working
backwards, in order to understand how it should work forwards!
Stop trying to put me down ------------ do yourself a favour, TRY TO HELP ----------- you'll be more liked!

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 08, 2011, 07:28:09 AM
This is enough Bill!!! I am tired of being assulted every time I try to both understand your drawings or try to explain. I really meant all about more drawings. Not meant to assult anyone. You are just a little touchy everg time some one are questioning your ideas. What is the point with sharing ideas if you are not open to others opinions or point of views?   
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 08, 2011, 11:21:53 AM
I'M sorry too Vidar.   You constantly avoid my questions, to the point of my having to accept your words as
Gospel ------------------ they're NOT!  It is my concidered opinion, that you think you're right, every time I
ask a question!   If I ask why you are of that opinion, in an attempt to understand your reasoning, and to
try to better the design etc.., you get upset.   What the rest on this forum DON'T know, is the fact that I've been in contact with you, for the best part of this year privately ------------- NO CHANGE!
Sorry pal, goodbye!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 08, 2011, 05:08:20 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10709.0;attach=54988;image (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10709.0;attach=54988;image)

If this is the design we are discussing, I can tell it wont work. The chain is taut on both sides of the wheel. A tension will force the upper wheel to rotate counter clockwise with the inner wheel, and clockwise with the outer wheel. The torque is greatest at the outer wheel so the sum is clockwise rotation*.

The very same tension must be applied to the bottom wheel, but the direction of tension points upwards, and force the bottom inner wheel to rotate clockwise, and the bottom outer wheel to rotate counter clockwise. The outer bottom wheel have greater torque, so the sum is a counter clockwise rotation**.

*, **: The sum of both wheels is clockwise + counter clockwise rotation, which means a stand still, LOCKED - no rotation at all.

What rig you got around the bottom wheel does not change anything, because you must use wheels on that one as well to allow any of the other wheels to rotate also.

The sum is no rotation, No free energy.

I am sorry I cannot help you out on this one.

Regarding our personal communication, it has NOTHING whatsoever to what I explain, misunderstand, requirements of more pictures, descriptions etc. I am not avoiding your questions - maybe taking some short turns, not completely avoiding. I do this sometime becaus it is so damn obvious that the design cannot work. What is it to explain anyways?
I try as hard as I can to understand. If you aren't satisfied with the sum of my attempts to explain, not agreed to your point of view of your designs, so be it. That is your problem, and not a problem you can just hand over to me.

The complexity of some of your designs might give me a headache some times, and pictures which is not always easy to "read". But I try as hard as possible.

Btw, you're always welcome to send me pictures for resizeing. No problem at all. Let's kick the ball, and not eachother. OK?

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 09, 2011, 03:29:08 AM
Vidar,
         Despite our ongoing arguement about THIS design, I don't mean to upset you at all, but do you know
it's about three (3) different reasons you've given for this design NOT to work?   Be fair now, which one is it?
That was a lovely long 'post' you put together for your last reply, and STILL avoided answering my questions!
How on Earth do you expect anyone to take what you say seriously? How are they, (or anyone) to know what you realy mean?
In another 'post', you praised me for my ability to draw, and make myself perfectly understood ----------------
you've now gone against it --------- WHY?
You've even praised me for my ability to think 'outside the box'---------- have you changed your mind on that
also?
I agree with your last sentence ----------------- 'let's kick a ball about, not each other'!!
I don't mind being wrong -------- but I'd like to know why!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 09, 2011, 03:56:51 AM
Hi Spang.

you are wasting your time in this field. use your time else where. I don't want you to waste your time period.

keep up the good work.
jerry 8)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 09, 2011, 08:51:18 AM
Vidar,
       As far as I can tell, some of my devices only work IF the device 'locks up'!   To make the device   
INOPERABLE because of 'locking up', the forces that WOULD 'lock up', would need to be equal in magnitude --Doesn't the top-wheel contain equal forces?  If unequal forces were to meet ------------- they couldn't
'lock up', am I right?  And, if I'm right, the device couldn't rotate, am I right?
I should clarify 'uneven';   Two IDENTICAL forces, but at different distances from their common hub, or two
different forces, at the 'same' distance from their common hub -------------------- correct?

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 09, 2011, 05:05:28 PM
Vidar,
         Despite our ongoing arguement about THIS design, I don't mean to upset you at all, but do you know
it's about three (3) different reasons you've given for this design NOT to work?   Be fair now, which one is it?
That was a lovely long 'post' you put together for your last reply, and STILL avoided answering my questions!
How on Earth do you expect anyone to take what you say seriously? How are they, (or anyone) to know what you realy mean?
In another 'post', you praised me for my ability to draw, and make myself perfectly understood ----------------
you've now gone against it --------- WHY?
You've even praised me for my ability to think 'outside the box'---------- have you changed your mind on that
also?
I agree with your last sentence ----------------- 'let's kick a ball about, not each other'!!
I don't mind being wrong -------- but I'd like to know why!
I hope I'm not avoiding your question this time, but the answer to your question about which reason, is written in my previous post. There is in SUM only one factor that will prevent the design to work. The lock up (Because of the three (more or less three - please dont arrest mi in saying the wrong number of reasons) reasons described in that post).

If the chains did NOT lock up, the design would not look like that. And I have no idea how to make a design that works that way without not facing another problem. You could always remove the inner wheel and its chain, but that will cause the bottom wheel to fall down until the left hand slack of the outer wheel is eventually taut up.

Such designs, and similar, is a dead end road. By that saying it will always be a reason why the designs doesn't work - in one way or another it will stop at equilibrium.

I see you got several questions, but I rather covering the answers in one general answer. Not because I want to avoid your spesific questions.

The ONLY way for you to get decent answers to your questions is to build. But I have understood you can't - for many good reasons. And I can't find any good reason to build them, nor any good and well understandable answers you'll accept. I am litterally short of answers.

If I avoided your questions again, I'm sorry.

br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 10, 2011, 04:10:11 AM
there have been many fine minds who failed on this project here in the current time and the past, why are you repeating the mistakes? as it would said, you'll find no extraordinary energy in gravity to harvest.

scientist would of discovered it 200 years ago if it existed, yet you still en devour.

jerry
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 10, 2011, 09:02:06 AM
Agreed edge2005. That will also apply to any given force within a closed loop. Bill is talking about tension, not gravity, but that will not make any difference.

A machine can't just start working because some people don't understand what is stopping it from running. There is plenty of free energy to harvest from else where. I can't see the point in searching for the total independent machine, because when the already existing energy disappears, humans also will disappear, and no need for an independent machine which run by itself.

What change we CAN do is to let more people realize there is alternatives to the power companies, and that actually no one is (technically speaking) depended of the power companies to get energy.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 10, 2011, 12:10:56 PM
If the 'independent machine', is made to help mankind, with his energy needs ------------- Man will NOT
die out --------------- he will carry on, and develop this so-called 'independent machine', where power
needs will not be an issue any more, because man will be able to produce as much as is required!
Just because this 'independent machine' has not yet been found ------- does NOT mean it won't!  So I,
and others like me, will keep up the search ----- no matter how long it takes!


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 10, 2011, 04:39:44 PM
My point is that we do not need to make a perpetuum mobile/over unity generator to get free energy. If it's easier to harness the energy which is already here instead of spending milleniums in the research for somthing much much harder - probably impossible, why not choose the easiest well established technology right away?
The energy is here because of the sun - the power companies knows this ofcourse, and want to sell energy which we can get for free in our backyard.
However, when the sun dies out, we will not be here anymore - if we hypotheticaly still lives after the sun has become a white tiny dot in the sky, we will definitely not be able to support ourself with energy, heat, and comfort with a hypothetical perpetuum mobile generator in the backyard.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 10, 2011, 06:21:51 PM
Inventors, such as myself, those of us who are searching for the 'perfect machine' (pmm), are few, and far between.   Those who search for power from the SUN (E.G.) are ones of many ------------------ probably
millions.   Join THEM?   No thanks!   I KNOW PMM IS POSSIBLE, YOU 'know,' pmm is IMpossible ---------------
let's find out who's right, shall we?
PMM, lasts forever, the SUN won't!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 10, 2011, 09:48:45 PM
What bugs me most about energy is the question where it came from... What "thing" created energy?

It is very good that there are good people out there searching for free energy. I have kind of lost the spirit after I designed the magnetic "zipper motor". It bugs me that I have no proper simulation software, or tools to build a machine with that complexity. Hopefully I can establish a small workshop when I'm finished with the house I'm building. I really look forward to have some more space around me - space for experiments, tools, etc.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 11, 2011, 01:13:03 AM
Vidar,
     Just because you could not take your " zipper-motor" any further than you did, because of lack of funds,
space, equipment, whatever ----------------  in MY eyes is not good enough.  If you became disillusioned
by one thing or another ------------- don't 'throw the towel in', or, adopt the attitude of, 'if you can't beat
them ----- join them'.  Just remember ---- if it can be done once, it can be done again!   There's more than one way to 'skin a cat'.   Just like there's more than one way of producing energy.
DON'T GIVE UP!
I think the vast majority of people that use these free energy forums ----- want instant answers, and are not willing to help others attain their goals, or help them in any way!
It looks like we're,  'on our own'.   What little help IS given by others, is WELL appreciated, believe me!!


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 11, 2011, 10:39:27 AM
Thanks for encouraging words :)

At the current time I cannot take my idea further. But when I get more space I will do what I can to take the idea further and test it - primarily for getting a better understanding about magnetism and the idea. I have lots of magnets, money is not a problem. Moreover, I hate to ask for money or foundings - so that will never be an option.

Now I live in a small apartment, no private area outside, only 3-4 sq.m of "my own" space inside. That space is filled with model airplanes, helicopters, some tools, power tools, but I can't use it in there - it too narrow space. In the new place I have a garage and a house. That will help quite much.

So Bill, I have not given up forever - when I think again, the lost spirit thing is more because of the very narrow space I got right now. And as I said, money is not the problem. I need that extra space to do it. Hopefully we can move in to the new huse in March, April 2012. I am really looking forward to it :) Finally I will be a "free" person to express and materialize ideas that has been built up for decades.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 11, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
Thanks Vidar,
                 I hope you and your family enjoy the new place, as much as I think you will.   With the extra space you have, I hope you find time to return to your 'old' ways, and catch up on lost time etc....
Before I retired, I was a builder ------- so I know just how much 'mess' there can be --------------- it'll
take time, but eventually  everything will, I'm sure, sort itself out.  GOOD LUCK.

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 13, 2011, 09:24:20 AM
Hi all,
      I think that some of my devices, rely/need the 'locking up' to take place, in order TO work.
I'm not 100% sure ----------- but, looking at some of my designs ---------- they could NOT
work if 'locking up' never took place.   It's no use looking at any particular design, noticing that
it 'locks up', and say ------------- "that won't work, BECAUSE it 'locks up'".   Dig deeper!
Of course, I might be wrong.

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on September 13, 2011, 12:44:57 PM
Over unity is for sure a very hard task to accomplish. The laws of thermodynamics are pretty unforgiven. However, it could be a big prize lottery ticket out there. So if no one bets, ther would certanly not be any prize.
It is important to use commen sense, ratiolal thinking, avoid the faults during history we already know of - even if history only prooves that we do not learn from history... it's easy to bet on the wrong horse, if we don't know enough about horses... Hmm, that was really deep ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 13, 2011, 02:07:02 PM
Vidar,
       I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or go with other women -------------- I like to think of myself, as a
stable man.   I DON'T believe in GHOSTS, FLYING SAUCERS, or any of that c**p.
I wouldn't mind a wager, that PM WILL be discovered ---- and that the 'scientists' will say: "I knew the old
way of thinking was wrong, there are too many inconsistancies that need to be addressed" ---- and so on!
They've 'updated' (changed) the 'laws' of physics many times.   Wait, and see!
The door is open ----- come on in.

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 14, 2011, 02:28:24 AM
Hi all,
       It just dawned on me, devices that 'lock up' ARE the ones that work!   If the device didn't 'lock up',
how would it be able to rotate?   'Locking up', ALLOWS rotation to work!


BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on September 16, 2011, 12:05:35 AM
Upon reflection --------------- I'm not too sure!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on October 27, 2011, 06:20:51 AM
It looks as if, just a small 'push' is all that is needed to overcome any 'locking up'.
When moving, it CAN'T 'lock up'!

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on October 27, 2011, 07:56:22 AM
Surely, 'locking up' requires BOTH bottom-wheels' to rotate in DIFFERENT directions?
If that is so, then the 'push' described in the previous 'post', makes both bottom-wheels' rotate in the
SAME direction ---------------- NOT 'lock up'.

BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on February 02, 2012, 11:33:54 PM
Perhaps the fact that BOTH wheels rotate in the SAME direction, has something to do with it ---------------------- even if they
do rotate at different speeds?
BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on February 04, 2012, 10:30:03 AM
Hi
Typing in Google and searching for the 'gravity wheel' I found this very interesting photo. Autor states the wheel is so powerful it needs a break to be installed for its maintenance.

http://translate.google.pl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=www.andrzejstruski.com (http://translate.google.pl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=pl&tl=en&u=www.andrzejstruski.com)




Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Airstriker on February 04, 2012, 02:12:03 PM
Oryginal link: http://www.andrzejstruski.com/articles_141_Perpetuum-mobile-Struski.html (http://www.andrzejstruski.com/articles_141_Perpetuum-mobile-Struski.html)
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on February 04, 2012, 02:26:26 PM
The author is 'having you on' Pal.    All this design is, is a variation on a BASKARA WHEEL ------------------ they don't work,
and they never will ------ Sorry!
BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on February 04, 2012, 05:59:16 PM
Thanks Vidar,
                 I hope you and your family enjoy the new place, as much as I think you will.   With the extra space you have, I hope you find time to return to your 'old' ways, and catch up on lost time etc....
Before I retired, I was a builder ------- so I know just how much 'mess' there can be --------------- it'll
take time, but eventually  everything will, I'm sure, sort itself out.  GOOD LUCK.

BILL.
We have now put our small apartment for sale - finally! People will show up tomorrow, hopeully, and then we can get the h.... out of this tiny space. Take a look at the advertisement here (Norwegian):
http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/homes/object?finnkode=32981325 (http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/homes/object?finnkode=32981325)


It looks like the area inside is huge on the pictures, but that is how the pictures are taken.


The new house is soon finished. Hopefully I can start my Zipper-motor idea and build something in the garage (Which is finished btw.). Right now the garage is filled with tools, kitchen parts, and most of our inventory. I must clean up the place before I can start experimenting. I look so much forward to it, I have no words! Myself, an inventor, hobbyist, and woodworker etc, living in a tiny useless space for allmost 11 years, are soon free :-)


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on February 04, 2012, 08:46:42 PM
We have now put our small apartment for sale - finally! People will show up tomorrow, hopeully, and then we can get the h.... out of this tiny space. Take a look at the advertisement here (Norwegian):
http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/homes/object?finnkode=32981325 (http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/homes/object?finnkode=32981325)


It looks like the area inside is huge on the pictures, but that is how the pictures are taken.


The new house is soon finished. Hopefully I can start my Zipper-motor idea and build something in the garage (Which is finished btw.). Right now the garage is filled with tools, kitchen parts, and most of our inventory. I must clean up the place before I can start experimenting. I look so much forward to it, I have no words! Myself, an inventor, hobbyist, and woodworker etc, living in a tiny useless space for allmost 11 years, are soon free :-)


Vidar

  Are all Norwegians so spoiled ?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on February 05, 2012, 12:29:14 AM
Vidar,
        I sincerely hope you and your family enjoy the house you've built -------------- it's taken long enough!   GOOD LUCK!
It will of course, take more time however, to finnish off the last bits etc...,   THEN you can concentrate on your motor ------
------- good luck with that also!
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on February 05, 2012, 09:42:30 AM

  Are all Norwegians so spoiled ?
I did not expect that reaction. Being spoiled is a relative term, but I see your point. We really do not need more space than we got. We rather need less stuff to fill that small space. Hopefully the better space for experimenting will provide good results.



Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on February 06, 2012, 03:36:23 PM
I did not expect that reaction. Being spoiled is a relative term, but I see your point. We really do not need more space than we got. We rather need less stuff to fill that small space. Hopefully the better space for experimenting will provide good results.



Vidar

  It is nothing personal Vidar but I live in about 1/3 the space you have/had and not nearly as nice.
And yet, even if I offer to pay someone to build, no takers. It's where I live, I have to limit myself to a rotary tool.
 Hopefully you'll be able to enjoy working on your projects once you have the space to do so. I know it would make a big difference for myself.
 As for me, who knows ?

                                                                             Jim

edited to add. on on web site where wood workers are to be found, have  a couple of people interested Had to bring in my medical problems of the last few years and that respect is mutual. And this last part means they need to respect my understanding of what I am trying to do as they would wish for me to respect their skills.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on February 06, 2012, 09:48:52 PM
  It is nothing personal Vidar but I live in about 1/3 the space you have/had and not nearly as nice.
And yet, even if I offer to pay someone to build, no takers. It's where I live, I have to limit myself to a rotary tool.
 Hopefully you'll be able to enjoy working on your projects once you have the space to do so. I know it would make a big difference for myself.
 As for me, who knows ?

                                                                             Jim

edited to add. on on web site where wood workers are to be found, have  a couple of people interested Had to bring in my medical problems of the last few years and that respect is mutual. And this last part means they need to respect my understanding of what I am trying to do as they would wish for me to respect their skills.
No hard feelings :-) It is usually 1/3 space in my apartment too. With all the laundry, food all over the place after the kids, my wifes books, blankets, dishes, towels, flowers, tables, speakers, , medicines, dunes, closets, toys, diapers, kids, wife and me - all over the place. Well, we have filled the space well. It is so clean and empty now I can hear myself saying "Good bye" to my wife in the morning, still after I come back after work in the afternoon. The ecco in this space has increased considerably...the living space too. It's allmost a shame to move...


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on February 08, 2012, 01:27:07 AM
No hard feelings :-) It is usually 1/3 space in my apartment too. With all the laundry, food all over the place after the kids, my wifes books, blankets, dishes, towels, flowers, tables, speakers, , medicines, dunes, closets, toys, diapers, kids, wife and me - all over the place. Well, we have filled the space well. It is so clean and empty now I can hear myself saying "Good bye" to my wife in the morning, still after I come back after work in the afternoon. The ecco in this space has increased considerably...the living space too. It's allmost a shame to move...


Vidar

  Now you're just making me envious  :D
 That's one thing I hope to get out of Bessler's wheel (if it works) is a family.
I guess I'd be cramped to if I were in your situation. Will it be long until you can move into your new home ?
This link is to a different view of a puzzle my brother gave my father. I think the building where my grandfather's shop was is straight down from the brown building on the water way.
 It's not easy to see, maybe the roof. smp used to have better views of Alesund.
http://www.smp.no/vaeret/article423459.ece (http://www.smp.no/vaeret/article423459.ece)
 
Upset me and my brothers when we lived there as kids. The bus driver knew my sister and would let us ride into town and then back home. We only lived there a short while. All I can say now is je elske mot  :P
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on February 11, 2012, 10:28:49 AM
Hi All
Just idea... This is a wheel with 8 bearings around, all of equal weight and dimensions. These bearings are also weights. On right side of wheel there are 2 quarter-circle shape supports/patchs the bearings move on. If we consider two pairs; 1-5 and 3-7 we can see that bearings 1 and 7 as supported by tracks do not affect the wheel by their mass as much as other bearings /5 and 3/. That means the right side of wheel is lighter than the left. The suspension of bearings allows them to play a little bit /say 0,5 - 1 mm/ along with radius of wheel just to free them of wheel a little.
What do you think, shall it work?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on February 11, 2012, 01:24:19 PM
Dear Rafael,
                     I don't think it will work because, 'wheels' 3,4,&5, STILL have to lift' wheels'  7,8,&1.
Nice try though.
BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on February 29, 2012, 12:07:42 PM
Hi All... Bill... Vidar
This is quite old setup. I met it in the internet in many configurations, also with two wheels. But my question is; why it is so obvious it won't work? Imagine the low friction bearings holding strongly the perfectly shaped ring on both sides...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on February 29, 2012, 01:51:36 PM
Raphael,
             The 'ring' cannot rotate, it can only pivot, using the two 'rollers'  (3 O'clock ---- right-hand side) as pivot-points.
 
BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on February 29, 2012, 10:43:34 PM

  Now you're just making me envious  :D
 That's one thing I hope to get out of Bessler's wheel (if it works) is a family.
I guess I'd be cramped to if I were in your situation. Will it be long until you can move into your new home ?
This link is to a different view of a puzzle my brother gave my father. I think the building where my grandfather's shop was is straight down from the brown building on the water way.
 It's not easy to see, maybe the roof. smp used to have better views of Alesund.
http://www.smp.no/vaeret/article423459.ece (http://www.smp.no/vaeret/article423459.ece)
 
Upset me and my brothers when we lived there as kids. The bus driver knew my sister and would let us ride into town and then back home. We only lived there a short while. All I can say now is je elske mot  :P
The apartment is now sold. We are moving in to the new place april 13.th - it's on a friday and I hope all goes well...


I would strongly recommend you to get a family before that Bessler wheel works.... . Ã…lesund is a nice place, but your Norwegian needs some tuning :-))



Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on February 29, 2012, 10:53:25 PM
Hi All... Bill... Vidar
This is quite old setup. I met it in the internet in many configurations, also with two wheels. But my question is; why it is so obvious it won't work? Imagine the low friction bearings holding strongly the perfectly shaped ring on both sides...
Bill has a good point.
If the wheel ran, the mass in it would be moving as much upwards at the right side as it moved down at the left side. Equal amout of mass moving the same distance in opposite directions cancel out, and no excess energy will be possible to get out. This simple example is applied to all so called gravity powered closed systems. They simply cannot work, because the designs prevents it to work. Gravity powered machines will only work if energy is supplied externally - like the sun, ocean, clouds, rain, lakes, dam, turbine river, ocean-cycle. This cycle is caused by the supply of energy from the sun. Otherwise hydro power plants would not work.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on February 29, 2012, 11:39:25 PM
The apartment is now sold. We are moving in to the new place april 13.th - it's on a friday and I hope all goes well...


I would strongly recommend you to get a family before that Bessler wheel works.... . Ã…lesund is a nice place, but your Norwegian needs some tuning :-))

  Hi Vidar,
 Not sure, but maybe one day I will have a home like you do and can work there as well as...
 Not sure about family. People keep telling me I am special or I have the Lord in my life.
 In reality, I think people hold my hearing loss against me and make excuses. This is possibly
why Bessler's wheel is important to me. It might give me the opportunity to have a family one day.
 Any idea on when you might start building ? I have seen Merg post his work and would be interested as I am sure others are in seeing your own work.
 
                                                                                   Jim   



Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 01, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
Hi Rafael,
                The opinion given by Vidar, reflects the opinion that perpetual motion is impossible!   I don't share that opinion!
I still stick by my interpretation of the design submitted.  (Which, incidentaly, does NOT mention perpetual motion.)  I'm
not saying Vidar is wrong, but his opinion, is only HIS opinion!  His opinion may be shared by others ------------- but not
all!
An opinion, is only an opinion -------------- NOT a fact!
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 07:30:26 AM
Hi Rafael,
                The opinion given by Vidar, reflects the opinion that perpetual motion is impossible!   I don't share that opinion!
I still stick by my interpretation of the design submitted.  (Which, incidentaly, does NOT mention perpetual motion.)  I'm
not saying Vidar is wrong, but his opinion, is only HIS opinion!  His opinion may be shared by others ------------- but not
all!
An opinion, is only an opinion -------------- NOT a fact!
It does not reflect that perpetual motion is impossible - that was YOUR words. I explain that gravity wheels cannot work. Not an opinion, but a FACT. That fact is not extablished by me.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 08:02:56 AM
If a family cannot accept who YOU are, and you have to have some material values first, is not a base of a honest, good and faithful marriage...nor a happy family.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 01, 2012, 09:05:20 AM
Please note;   Vidars theory, is now a fact.   He must have a time machine ----------------- travelled to the end of time
--------------------- found out that perpetual motion is impossible ----------------------- and tells us now, just to save
ourselves the 'trouble' of putting in the years of hard work, that some of us have done.   Don't forget, IT'S A FACT!
Just out of curiosity Vidar, what on Earth has anyones family to do with this discussion?
Please leave my family 'out of it', o.k?
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 11:18:58 AM
Please note;   Vidars theory, is now a fact.   He must have a time machine ----------------- travelled to the end of time
--------------------- found out that perpetual motion is impossible ----------------------- and tells us now, just to save
ourselves the 'trouble' of putting in the years of hard work, that some of us have done.   Don't forget, IT'S A FACT!
Just out of curiosity Vidar, what on Earth has anyones family to do with this discussion?
Please leave my family 'out of it', o.k?
Again you are putting words in my mouth. Read what is written, and consider the history of all the "engineers" who has designed and built gravity powered machines that doesn't work. If gravity isn't what we think it is doing to objects, then we would wonder why Neil Armstrong missed the moon - well, he didn't thanks to accurate calculations which includes gravity.


As I have explained to you before: Gravity is a vertical force. A vertical force will pull an object vertically, even if it follows a circular path. The difference is the tangential force (torque) that changes from nothing at 12 and 6 o'clock, to maximum at 9 and 3 o'clock. The values in between is a cosine function of the angle. At 45 degrees the tangential force (torque) is 70.7% of maximum. At 60 degrees it is only 50%. At 30 degrees it is 87%. At 0 degrees (at 3 or 9 o'clock) it is 100%. What is happening when an object is following an elliptic or circular path does therfor not change the potential energy of an object at a given hight, at any locations on that path. It is the hight that counts. Therfor these seemingly overbalanced wheels do actually not overbalance. The force along the path is in other words depending on the tangential angle of a moving object along that path - regardless of the shape of the path, and where the hub or pivot point is located.


You are old enough to understand these basics, so I do not understand why it is questionable.


Not your family I was refering to. I did quote the post above from another member, but it seems now that the quote did not show up in that last post of mine - I can see that you think I was refering to you - but that is not the case. It was however off topic, so I will take the blame for being off topic.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 01, 2012, 12:04:25 PM
And an overbalancing wheel is therefore impossible, right?
Perhaps you would like to explain to us all, HOW an overbalancing wheel works!
I'm 68, NOT 18 and naive!   And don't forget to leave my family alone!
I'm begining to see you as a troublemaker, and stupid.
Pull yourself together!
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 01, 2012, 12:38:46 PM
Hi Rafael,
                The opinion given by Vidar, reflects the opinion that perpetual motion is impossible!   I don't share that opinion!
I still stick by my interpretation of the design submitted.  (Which, incidentaly, does NOT mention perpetual motion.)  I'm
not saying Vidar is wrong, but his opinion, is only HIS opinion!  His opinion may be shared by others ------------- but not
all!
An opinion, is only an opinion -------------- NOT a fact!
Thank you Bill, thank you Vidar...
As for now I don't believe Vidar about gravity machines  :D , but who knows... maybe I will have to?  However I am open for the truth. I found many strange arguments against harnessing the energy from gravity.
For example: the field of gravity is homogeneous... But if we compare gravity to the wind we can assume that in many cases the forces of wind are homogeneous too, and we still can get energy from it - we just put there a windmill.
Some ppl on this forum say avoiding the friction in gravity wheel is not enough... don't know maybe they're right, but I believe it is enough to make them working.
All the best
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 01:11:18 PM
And an overbalancing wheel is therefore impossible, right?
Perhaps you would like to explain to us all, HOW an overbalancing wheel works!
I'm 68, NOT 18 and naive!   And don't forget to leave my family alone!
I'm begining to see you as a troublemaker, and stupid.
Pull yourself together!
I have not interferred with your family.


I cannot explain how a gravity wheel works, because it don't work. I have explained why it doesn't work.
Troublemaker? How?


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 01, 2012, 01:12:08 PM
Hi Raphael,
                 Thanks for your 'input' ---------------- most welcome!
Time will tell, as the saying goes!   What you probably DON'T know, is the fact that Vidar, & I, have been privately
comunicating for quite some time now ----- about a year, or so.     Since that time, I've made up my mind, that I will
not have anything more to do with him ------------------- I've tried, believe me I've tried!   If only...,
 Keep up your work, and all the best to you!
 
BILL.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 01:33:51 PM
Thank you Bill, thank you Vidar...
As for now I don't believe Vidar about gravity machines  :D , but who knows... maybe I will have to?  However I am open for the truth. I found many strange arguments against harnessing the energy from gravity.
For example: the field of gravity is homogeneous... But if we compare gravity to the wind we can assume that in many cases the forces of wind are homogeneous too, and we still can get energy from it - we just put there a windmill.
Some ppl on this forum say avoiding the friction in gravity wheel is not enough... don't know maybe they're right, but I believe it is enough to make them working.
All the best
Wind and gravity is not the same. Wind is kinetic energy (Which includes a force that has put mass into motion), gravity is only a force. The mass you put into that force will provide a potential energy that is either gained or lost if the mass change altitude. Since every weight in a gravity wheel is going up and down with the same vertical distance, the net output will therfor be zero. See?


The windmill in the drawing is rotating due to the profile of the fins. The mass flow of the wind will provide subpressure on the upper fins right side (the convex side), and pressure on the left side the concave side (due to its curved shape - similar principle as an airplane wing). This will cause the windmill to rotate clockwise. The bottom fin is curved opposite with respect to the wind direction, but also on the opposite side of the hub - providing clockwise rotation too.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 02:14:24 PM
Hi Raphael,
                 Thanks for your 'input' ---------------- most welcome!
Time will tell, as the saying goes!   What you probably DON'T know, is the fact that Vidar, & I, have been privately
comunicating for quite some time now ----- about a year, or so.     Since that time, I've made up my mind, that I will
not have anything more to do with him
------------------- I've tried, believe me I've tried!   If only...,
 Keep up your work, and all the best to you!
 
BILL.
I have tried as hard as I can to help you with your desings. I have tried as hard as I can to understand your drawings, replied with comments and questions. I have had many hours trying to feedback with comments I have had with the designs. The problem is just that you "know" it works, and will not accept my replies. Lately I have stopped commenting designs which is based on weights that is limited within a given change of altitude - so called self powered over balanced gravity wheels. All the designs you have spent hours in thinking out (And I respect you for being stabborn, and never giving up), and handed to me for evaluation, is designs which prevents itself from being selfrunners. If you cannot accept this kind of feedback, that should be your own design problem - problems that shouldn't be me in person.



Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 01, 2012, 02:44:28 PM
Wind and gravity is not the same. Wind is kinetic energy (Which includes a force that has put mass into motion), gravity is only a force. The mass you put into that force will provide a potential energy that is either gained or lost if the mass change altitude. Since every weight in a gravity wheel is going up and down with the same vertical distance, the net output will therfor be zero. See?
Ha ha! Vidar ;D ... 'gravity is only a force'... wind also can be assumed as only force unless there is no molecules to move. It doesn't matter for final effect what causes the movement, or in other words what energizes the mass.
Another common mistake I believe the sceptics make is a simple conclusion (as Vidar said) that: "since every weight in a gravity wheel is going up and down on the same vertical distance, the net output therefore will be zero". No, I don't agree... because as this is a multi-leverage system the weights on falling side have more energy (coming from gravity) than weights on rising side. It's obvious for me...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 01, 2012, 07:16:23 PM
Ha ha! Vidar ;D ... 'gravity is only a force'... wind also can be assumed as only force unless there is no molecules to move. It doesn't matter for final effect what causes the movement, or in other words what energizes the mass.
Another common mistake I believe the sceptics make is a simple conclusion (as Vidar said) that: "since every weight in a gravity wheel is going up and down on the same vertical distance, the net output therefore will be zero". No, I don't agree... because as this is a multi-leverage system the weights on falling side have more energy (coming from gravity) than weights on rising side. It's obvious for me...
There would be no wind if the molecules weren't there.
Gravity is not a mass that moves.
The multi leverage system does not change anything. Look at each weight separately, and how they separately moves in a complete cycle. What do you see? Is it now obvious that this weight has more energy on the way down on one side, than the energy it takes on the way up on the other side? Each weight must account for themself.

This is simple physics. If you don't understand it, that is your problem, but also your chance to learn and confirm if you experiment with this kind of physics. I've been there, learned, and moved on.




Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 01, 2012, 09:16:33 PM
Vidar, the mass can be energized either by wind or by gravity or by pushing it with a finger. It doesn't matter how... The levering around axis allowes the wheel to move. Actually the windmills also use some kind of leverage... Overbalancing wheels use multi leverage with continuesly changing ratio... and this is why I can't say; "Each weight must account for itself". Each weight is a part of whole system and tied to others, mostly opposite weights.
Vidar, maybe u right, but time will show, as Bill said. I guess some projects failed due to poor particular design or perform. I think we can't expect a great gain of power from gravity wheel comparing to its dimension. And this is why the idea often can not overcome the friction and some design mistakes...  ;)

All the best in your attempts people...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 02, 2012, 11:02:11 AM
Vidar, the mass can be energized either by wind or by gravity or by pushing it with a finger. It doesn't matter how... The levering around axis allowes the wheel to move. Actually the windmills also use some kind of leverage... Overbalancing wheels use multi leverage with continuesly changing ratio... and this is why I can't say; "Each weight must account for itself". Each weight is a part of whole system and tied to others, mostly opposite weights.
Vidar, maybe u right, but time will show, as Bill said. I guess some projects failed due to poor particular design or perform. I think we can't expect a great gain of power from gravity wheel comparing to its dimension. And this is why the idea often can not overcome the friction and some design mistakes...  ;)

All the best in your attempts people...
Energy can be transfered from wind to running a windmill. That also mean that the wind will loose kinetic energy as it power the wind mill, by transfering some of its kinetic energy into a wind mills rotation. Some of the wind will heat up due to losses like turbulence and surface friction, and the rest is a mechanical transfer of kinetic energy. An overbalanced gravity wheel can therfor only work if you apply similar energy (It can be waterfall, sand (like the kids toys)) on one side of the wheel. The mass you apply on that one side must also escape from the wheel before it completes the cycle.


Regarding the weights in a complex wheel, each weight have enough potential energy to bearly complete one cycle of its own. If you add more weights, the total mass increase accordingly, accounting for the number of weights you add. So the wheel will not work better with several weights than only one.


Let friction be out of the equation. Friction is loss in any type og engine, and is easily overpowered by the engines kinetic energy (That could be burning gasoline to power the pistons). A gravity wheel have no potential energy that can be converted into kinetic energy - in order to overpower friction for example. Even if friction weren't there, the wheel will stop as soon as you try to get some energy out of it. Transfering energy into useful work, or into loss/friction doesn't matter. The wheel will "see" the energy transfer as something it has to give away in any case.


I am afraid you overlook the free energy that is already present in wind. Why struggeling for something "most probably" useless when you can harvest the energy that is already there - right in front of you.


I really hope that I will be wrong some day about perpetual motion (eventhough I don't see the point when we have energy already), but the gravity approach is most likely a dead end road.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on March 02, 2012, 03:44:01 PM
There would be no wind if the molecules weren't there.
Gravity is not a mass that moves.
The multi leverage system does not change anything. Look at each weight separately, and how they separately moves in a complete cycle. What do you see? Is it now obvious that this weight has more energy on the way down on one side, than the energy it takes on the way up on the other side? Each weight must account for themself.

This is simple physics. If you don't understand it, that is your problem, but also your chance to learn and confirm if you experiment with this kind of physics. I've been there, learned, and moved on.




Vidar

  Hi Vidar,
 One thing I am not against is someone being skeptical. I think it helps to keep people like myself
grounded. Family also makes a nice base. It is more important than this.
 And I agree with you Vidar, this is a chance for people to test their idea's against accepted principles in science and engineering. The laws of physics can not be broken. The only thing left is to show a different interpretation and application.
 With what I will be pursuing (building), it will be to show one way perpetual motion is possible (if everything works out).

                                                                                                                 Jim
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 03, 2012, 02:31:01 PM
O.K. I think it is all about what we think the gravity is. It is very easy to say that gravity is 'only a force' affecting everything around and giving all the bodies a mass. But this is kind of magic isn't it?  :) We can't see these forces,  but we see the effects. Years ago people couldn't imagine a particle smaller than electron, but today we know about neutrinos. Years ago respectable scientists believed in aether. They thought it is a kind of fluid in the space and everywhere. But one experiment proved that there is no such an aether around and all respectable scientists started to believe Einstein that light can propagate in the vacuum... But now we know(?) that neutrinos are faster than photons and that they are everywhere.
Perhaps the gravity is an effect of omnidirectional wind of neutrinos being everywhere and moving in all possible directions? And carrying the energy by the way? Neutrinos are thousands times smaller than atoms and can easily move through any mass, even planet, but doing this they leave an amount of energy in these masses. And this is called a gravity. So gravity is for us actually kind of pressure rather than pulling down...
Phenomena like Casimir effect, or fact that the gravity is stronger on the top of mountains, than on oceans level (see NASA photos) can even prove this theory.
This is what I believe the gravity is, and as long as neutrinos carry any kind of energy we can harness it, and this is why I like to compare it to the wind...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 03, 2012, 04:40:01 PM
Quote
but we see the effects
Precicely. We see the effects. That should be sufficient, shouldn't it? Understanding gravity is no point if it cannot change how it behave, or make that d.... wheel turn by itself. That would be like describing the water in detail in front of a drowning person. That would not change the outcome.


So, since we do see the effects of gravity, and we know the behaviour of gravity (In spite of not knowing what gravity REALLY is), why do we make gravity wheels and believe they are overbalancing??


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 04, 2012, 10:10:41 AM
According to some people, potential energy, prevents there ever being a perpetual motion machine.
If that is so, then why does overbalancing work?       And, it does!
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 04, 2012, 12:01:42 PM
According to some people, potential energy, prevents there ever being a perpetual motion machine.
If that is so, then why does overbalancing work?       And, it does!
 
BILL.
Potential energy can be transformed into kinetic energy, but it can also be used to increase potential energy in another weight given that the first weight loose the same potential as it transfer its potential to the other weight. Works pretty much as an old scale.
Potential energy is limited to do a limited amount of work, depending on the size of the potential. So a given potential energy cannot do work forever, unless the potential energy is infinitly big.
Potential energy can partially be converted into kinetic energy while the other part is to transfer potential energy onto another object.



A gravity wheel have weights around a hub. All weights is moving up and down the same distance all the time. The potential energy that one weight carry will on its way down be used to lift another equal weight upwards the same distance. No potential energy in the first weight will be converted into kinetic energy, because it only transfer its own potential energy into another weight, so there will be no spare energy left to harvest.




Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 04, 2012, 01:27:45 PM
 
 
 
Unfortunately, my question was NOT answered!     Potential energy cannot stop PERPETUAL MOTION!
Overbalancing, DOES occur.
Potential energy is simply a word, that describes a 'real' force!   Potential energy is NOT a 'real' force at all.
Overbalancing CAN happen, and lift another weight at the same time  ---------------- this weight OBTAINS potential
energy through it being lifted, but is NOT the cause of the original weight being lifted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 04, 2012, 03:22:43 PM
According to some people, potential energy, prevents there ever being a perpetual motion machine.
If that is so, then why does overbalancing work?       And, it does!
 
BILL.
First and foremost, you ask a misleading question, where you follow up your own question by an incorrect answer. I see no point in answering a question, if you already have decided what the answer is - even if it is not correct.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 04, 2012, 04:29:34 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
I wish some people would simply answer the question, in a straight forward fashion.
Avoidance, probably means,  lack of knowledge --------------- not necessarily, just probably!
All I want, is the truth, proof, not guesswork!
If I'm wrong --------- I'm wrong!
Potential means just that ------------------ potential.  A word, NOT a force!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 04, 2012, 06:35:25 PM
So, since we do see the effects of gravity, and we know the behaviour of gravity (In spite of not knowing what gravity REALLY is), why do we make gravity wheels and believe they are overbalancing??
Vidar
Just simple one... If you expose overbalancing wheel to the homogeneous forces of wind like on the picture below, would it work? If it works utilising wind it would also work using very similar forces of gravity. Why? because all equalisation related to the potential and kinetic energy of balls exposed to wind remain the same when they're exposed to gravity...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 04, 2012, 10:09:04 PM
Just simple one... If you expose overbalancing wheel to the homogeneous forces of wind like on the picture below, would it work? If it works utilising wind it would also work using very similar forces of gravity. Why? because all equalisation related to the potential and kinetic energy of balls exposed to wind remain the same when they're exposed to gravity...
Now I understand your idea...
To answer the first question: No.
Because: The air resistance on the objects will cause them to be forced equally in the direction of the homogeneous wind.


So to answer the second question, gravity cannot make it work.


However, the major difference between wind and gravity, is that you can guide the wind to mainly blow on one side of the wheel, so the wind can power the wheel. Gravity is homogeneous, but not the main reason why the wheel cannot work. Gravity is an attractive force - not energy. So if gravity is uneven on each side of the wheel it would still not work.


Vidar

Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on March 05, 2012, 01:21:17 PM
Just simple one... If you expose overbalancing wheel to the homogeneous forces of wind like on the picture below, would it work? If it works utilising wind it would also work using very similar forces of gravity. Why? because all equalisation related to the potential and kinetic energy of balls exposed to wind remain the same when they're exposed to gravity...

   Rafael,
 A model I used to study math is based on a design that considers such a scenario.
Most people can not understand it because it uses a 4 axis system. It has helped
me with Bessler's Wheel.     :D

                                                                                                                           Jim
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 06, 2012, 12:43:00 AM
Some people seem to think that I have invented a 'gravity wheel'.    I've NOT!     I've simply come up with an
idea for an overbalancing wheel.   Read this posts title ----------------- it should help to clarify things!
I've been given to believe, that a gravity wheel, and an overbalancing wheel, are two different things, correct
me if I'm wrong!
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 06, 2012, 09:44:46 AM
Some people seem to think that I have invented a 'gravity wheel'.    I've NOT!     I've simply come up with an
idea for an overbalancing wheel.   Read this posts title ----------------- it should help to clarify things!
I've been given to believe, that a gravity wheel, and an overbalancing wheel, are two different things, correct
me if I'm wrong!
I think you points out a VERY important issue, Bill!
My thoughts:
An overbalancing wheel, and a gravity wheel, could be the same thing. However, the word "gravity wheel" is a name of a device that specify that gravity has something to do with the principle of operation, while an overbalanceing wheel does not specify what forces are involved in the principle of operation.

I believe that there is many misunderstandings and incorrect interpretations of what is written in these forums. Partially due to lack of knowledge/ignorance, and partially use of wrong translations from ones native language. Also the way we explains our ideas could easily be understood quite differently from the readers point of view. I have several times assumed that anyone understands my ideas. Hence I got some replies that seems to be nonsense, some replies that obviously has nothing to do with my idea. I think this is something that has happend more than once between you and me, Bill. All the time and effort both you and me has spent the lase 1.5 years, privatly via e-mail, has got an outcome that is caused by assumtions, incorrect interpretations etc., and I assume it has threatened the good relations we have had after all.
 
Generally, the "bad attitude" that seems to occour some times between people on this forum has escalated into unfriendly relations between them/us. I think that is a shame, because it could be avoided just by being more patient (speaking primarily for myself), and not make hasty decisions of one anothers ideas. I assume that no one takes these words as an insult, or some kind of personal attack, but rather consider them, and try as best we can to understand one anothers ideas on the best possible way.

Last but not least, I want to apologize for anything that I have said/written that might have caused harm to anyone - that also includes you, Bill. I think we all, in our hearts, are good and decent people. But sometimes emotions takes away reason, and bad communication will occour. It will most probably happen again, but I hope we all can remember and accept that we aren't flawless.

Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 06, 2012, 10:56:49 AM
 
I agree with you Vidar, this kind of misunderstanding, can easily be misinterpreted as maliscious, and I believe
it has 'driven a wedge' between us!   I too,  apologise to you Vidar.
There's just one question remaining --------- where do we go from here?
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 06, 2012, 01:13:05 PM
Wher do we go from here?
Well, we all have a work to do when it comes to what we claim, what is reasonable, our gut feeling, extablished facts (by experience) etc., but also a work to do when it comes to visualize our ideas in a most understandable way. Any idea that comes up in this forum is assumed to violate physical laws. Having that in mind when reading someones post, will limit the free thinking, and also limit creative inputs (not my words - it has been mentioned several times on this forum - and I agree)
Putting oneself in the readers situation. "How will he/she understand my idea?". What can we do to make our ideas chrystal clear to anyone who wants to have an opinion about it? Think twice before we post anything; Ask ourself "How could my idea NOT work", look at alternative outcome of our idea, or at least be prepared to receive replies which conflicts with the idea or ones replies. These questions regards both beleivers and non-beleivers - regardless how obvious we think the outcome of an idea will be.


I think everyone should try to understand these issues first before we go anywhere. Also have some mathematical foundation so it would be possible to estimate an outcome of an idea in practice. My thoughts.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 06, 2012, 03:28:50 PM
Just simple one... If you expose overbalancing wheel to the homogeneous forces of wind like on the picture below, would it work? If it works utilising wind it would also work using very similar forces of gravity. Why? because all equalisation related to the potential and kinetic energy of balls exposed to wind remain the same when they're exposed to gravity...
Here is a link to a drawing (because my computer refuse to upload pictures). It explains what forces one must consider when designing an over balanced wheel.
The green arrows shows the torque gained and required in a given position of the weights. Blue arrows is force from wind. Light blue is the required acceleration of weight C to keep it syncronized with the rotation.
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg)


I hope it clearify some issues to consider regarding so called overbalanced wheels.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 06, 2012, 05:45:30 PM
Thanks Vidar,
                     I'll try someone else.
Can anyone help me? The man who normaly resizes my drawings,  (I don't know how to), has apparently died ----------------
and obviously, I need to get this design and its notes, on display.
Contact my private email address.
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on March 06, 2012, 06:25:47 PM
Here is a link to a drawing (because my computer refuse to upload pictures). It explains what forces one must consider when designing an over balanced wheel.
The green arrows shows the torque gained and required in a given position of the weights. Blue arrows is force from wind. Light blue is the required acceleration of weight C to keep it syncronized with the rotation.
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg)


I hope it clearify some issues to consider regarding so called overbalanced wheels.


Vidar

  FYI,
 When a weight is obstructed, it is possible any potential gain will be lost due to restriction of it's movement by mechanical means.
 It is possible Bessler found a solution to this issue. The link is to a concept I have built years ago and discussed in this forum.

  Will remain quiet until after I can accomplish the current project. I am quite anxious about it.

http://www.overunity.com/11806/basic-4-weighted-wheel-concept/
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 06, 2012, 06:53:23 PM
I also have enhanced Bills design, but my computer refuse to upload anything to OU.com. Link to the picture is here (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Bill-drawing.jpg)

Maybe Bill can explain the different colors and how the 10 kg weights are moving around.

The original description from Bill:

  3.5 - 10.5 - 3.5
                                   ----------------


This device, generates more (in a sense,)'weight' on the right-hand side, than it does
on the left-hand side.      AND, using less 'weights'. Imposible?  NO!
Overbalancing, is caused in two ways;   1, more weight on one side of say, a wheel, or, 2,
LESS weight, but, at a greater distance from the wheels' hub!   #2, is the option I've gone for.
I've found, that there is a ratio that exists, between the 'inner', & 'outer' circles, that
go to make up, the making of the wheel proper!   It is 3 to 1.   3, 'inner' circle, and 1,
'outer-circle'. In other words, if the diameter of the 'inner' circle is 9", then the 'outer'
circle must be 3" more -------------- either side ------------- 15" all told.
If you look at the drawing, there are 7 weights, on the left-hand side, and only 5 on the
right-hand side.   STILL the 5 overbalance the seven!   Their collective distances, for the 5
weights on the right-hand side, are greater than the collective distances for the 7 on the
left-hand side.
All weights, each 'weigh' the same -------------- 10kgs each?
E.G.; If 2 weights (collectively) measure 10cms, (5cms each), on one side, and 1 weight measures
11cms, on the other side, -------- the single weight, measuring 11cms, will 'overbalance' the
other 2.  That's how I came up with THIS Idea.
Try it for yourself:   Take a wooden ruler, carefully balance it on a round pencil, place 2, of 3
identical coins, 5cms from the balancing point (pencil), one on top of the other, and the other
coin, 11cms from the same point, but in the oposite direction ---------------- the 11cm coin,
will overbalance the two x 5cm coins!   Less weight, but at a greater distance.




We now come to the point, that in some ways, has been the 'bone of contention'.
Weight #3, has, in a previous drawing/calculation been COUNTED TWICE!   Obviously, it can only
be counted once. Because the weight/arm 'hangs' from position #3, AND is shown sitting on
position #8 at the same time ------------ it, (the weight), has been shown as producing 10kgs
at position #3, AND at position #8! Totaly impossible, it's showing the same weight producing
10kgs in both places at the same time!






   
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 06, 2012, 10:43:42 PM
Here is a link to a drawing (because my computer refuse to upload pictures). It explains what forces one must consider when designing an over balanced wheel.
The green arrows shows the torque gained and required in a given position of the weights. Blue arrows is force from wind. Light blue is the required acceleration of weight C to keep it syncronized with the rotation.
http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/gravity-wind-2.jpg)
I hope it clearify some issues to consider regarding so called overbalanced wheels.
Vidar
Vidar, my drawing was demonstrative only. I can't believe you took it seriously... ;D I realise that the shape of tracks/patches the weights move along plays a very important role and... is probably a key for working OW. Yes, green arrow nearby weight 'C' makes a problem, but there is a way to decrease this force. But... green arrow 'B' should be around 4 times longer than green arrow 'D' (the gain from leverage) - on your drawing is only twice longer...
Thank you for your time and explanation however I am not convinced you are right. On my drawing u saw a typical example of wrongly designed tracks, but as I mentioned it was only for illustrative purposes...
Also I believe that correctly designed tracks can help to utilise centrifugal forces to push weights onto falling side of wheel. That may be a secret of SJack Abelling solution.
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on March 07, 2012, 12:37:44 AM
Vidar, my drawing was demonstrative only. I can't believe you took it seriously... ;D I realise that the shape of tracks/patches the weights move along plays a very important role and... is probably a key for working OW. Yes, green arrow nearby weight 'C' makes a problem, but there is a way to decrease this force. But... green arrow 'B' should be around 4 times longer than green arrow 'D' (the gain from leverage) - on your drawing is only twice longer...
Thank you for your time and explanation however I am not convinced you are right. On my drawing u saw a typical example of wrongly designed tracks, but as I mentioned it was only for illustrative purposes...
Also I believe that correctly designed tracks can help to utilise centrifugal forces to push weights onto falling side of wheel. That may be a secret of SJack Abelling solution.
Il est pathfinder. J'aime son travail. Tres bon, n'est pas ?
http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3733 (http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3733)
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 01:17:44 AM
Vidar,
        The enhanced drawing of mine that you submitted, is quite easy to explain:  When you look at the 'arms' that constitute
the weights themselves, then the 'arms' in the top half of the drawing, are, in fact, extensions of the weights themselves, which
are shown as being twice as long as they need to be, (shown in various parts of the drawing).   What happens is, instead of the
weight proper, 'sitting' on the center circle of the device, and then 'hanging' from the outer-rim (large-circle), as IT (the device),
rotates ---------- the extension arms do it!
The weights proper, DO sit on the bottom of the large outer-rim, but 'hang' from the bottom of the small inner-circle (6 O'clock
to 9 O'clock).   When the weight, in the 9 O'clock position, is in place, the weights extention (an 'arm') follows the shape, almost
of an arch, of a device, used to keep the weights upright!  This weight, cannot be counted more than once!
 As each weight reaches the 12 O'clock position, the extention-arm, goes from sitting (with the weight), on the center circle,
and attaches itself to the 12 O'clock position of the large outer-rim ----------------- where, once again, the cycle begins.
In the original drawing, submitted to Vidar, the extension-arms, are shown as dotted lines, and is much easier to understand,
perhaps when he gets his computer fixed ----------- he'll show you(?)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 01:32:49 AM
To Vidar, #259
                        Vidar, just what is it , that confuses you,  everyone else seems to understand it?   I fail to understand, why you
think everyone else, doesn't understand it either!
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 02:23:33 AM
Once again, I'm asking if any one of you, would resize a drawing, and notes, and make a 'post' for me? I'd like to do it
myself, but I was told my lap-top can't do it, plus, I'm almost blind.   The man I usualy get to do this for me , has died!
BTW, this 'new' post, has nothing to do with THIS post.
Thanks for your time!
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 06:13:24 AM
 
To Johnny874   re; reply # 258
                                                  You say 'anxious',. but do you realy mean excited?  You also say, you'll keep quiet about it
for now.   Are you worried about ridicule?   If you are, DON'T BE!
There's an old saying of mine, that I use from time to time, it's this; re; P.M:   You can be wrong countless times, but you only
have to be right once!
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 09:07:41 AM
To Everybody,
                       I, personaly, will carry on coming up with ideas, untill I DO get it right!
Don't forget, you only have to be right once.   There are, of course, skeptics, but just take a look at the amount of people,
who have viewed this thread, well over 23,000.    I should imagine, that the amount of skeptics out of this 'lot' ------------
is low.
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 07, 2012, 12:43:46 PM

In the original drawing, submitted to Vidar, the extension-arms, are shown as dotted lines, and is much easier to understand,
perhaps when he gets his computer fixed ----------- he'll show you(?)
I replaced the dotted lines with grey lines, and the solid lines as black - just to save some time (Lazy me :-)). Regarding the understanding of the design I linked to, I'm not sure how to. I feel there are some issues with the design that I cannot point my finger on. Weights, repeating cycle - well, to me it boils down to moving weights up and down the same distance over and over again (Like watching this design from the side so I don't see the rotation). I mean, something should account for the over balanced part. I must imagine to remove all the weights except for one, and imagine how this single weight can gain kinetic energy just by repeating the cycle - it is hard for me to imagine such. Even with more weights, the total mass increase, the weights must account for themself, so to speak. My brain is simply blocking (Some kind of human anti virus software installed) the imagination on how this design can work.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 07, 2012, 02:00:30 PM
 
 
 
 
Vidar,
       It is totaly clear, if one reads the text properly.   Don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT 'puting you down'.   I have come to
the conclusion, that you are reading the text incorrectly!   It doesn't matter how many weights/arms the device has on its
left-hand side ------------- their total (collective), distance from the hub, is LESS than the weights/arms on the right-hand
side.     This difference in distances occurs 'X' times per revolution ----------- all weights/arms, therefore repeat their positions
many times per revolution -------------- not ONCE per revolution, but many times!
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 07, 2012, 04:13:38 PM
Il est pathfinder. J'aime son travail. Tres bon, n'est pas ?
http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3733 (http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3733)
John, thank you for link. I appreciate it. Unfortunately I don't speak French :( , but... yes this man [pathfinder] is a very talented person I must say and his projects are really great. Amazing... he's built up all these devices one can see on photos. Analysing will be a great lesson of geometry and engineering.
I personally need to continue works on magnet motor. As for now believe in magnets as potential source of energy more than in gravity, especially after I've done some promissing experiments with bismuth as shielding.

Good luck all path finders...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: johnny874 on March 07, 2012, 07:05:28 PM

To Johnny874   re; reply # 258
                                                  You say 'anxious',. but do you realy mean excited?  You also say, you'll keep quiet about it
for now.   Are you worried about ridicule?   If you are, DON'T BE!
There's an old saying of mine, that I use from time to time, it's this; re; P.M:   You can be wrong countless times, but you only
have to be right once!
 
BILL.

   Bill,
 have tolerated much harassment for my current project. the only bad thing about that is it was/is from people who claim to support Bessler.
 Right now, my main concern is talking about it ad nauseum.
 I think I am both anxious and excited. I have decided this weekend I will start building work benches. I will need something to work on.
 In some ways, I think I am in a little bit different place than everyone else because of the work I have done and the people I have met in these forums. Myself, I will go heavy into math. I like it and use it quite often.
 With Bessler, I think as far as gravity goes, some of his thoughts might help to find other ways of making something work. This I think worries some people about maybe them not recieving proper credit for their efforts if Bessler's drawings help.
 With what I am working on, I think it is Bessler's best wheel and uses a very unique principle. It is different than using weights themselves to achieve over balance. The weights would stay in balance. But with weights, his Mt 26 is something that might be possible if 2 or more scissors were used and operated by a lever. Scissors can out perform w=md. And this is what would possibly allow for converting gravity into mechanical energy.
Math helps to show how this potential might be realized.
 
@Raphael, this I do not is legitimate but is still interesting. I have tried moving magnets past each other and wonder if he has air blowing or if the magnets on the side help to focus the magnetic field that acts on the "motor".
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGq2WSnE7j0)
 
                                                                            Jim
 
edited to finish incomplete sentence
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 08, 2012, 01:34:53 AM
Good luck, JIM,
                         Take no notice what 'others' say --------------- get on with it!
 
BILL.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 08, 2012, 06:40:49 AM
 
I.ve been told, by an eminent member of this forum, that my overbalancing wheel will not work!   I might add, that's HIS theory!
I've offered this man the opotunity to take, once, and for all, the chance to prove that he's right, by building a 'static' wheel.   There
is only one moving part ---- the hub!   It works, by placing the weights (heavy nuts), around the two circles, mimicing the positions
of the weights.   If the device rotates by 22.5*, the device works.   NOT theory!   The man has declined several times, and blames
ME for his decision not to build the device, because HE'S right -------- end of!    I think he's decision not to build, is a mistake,
don't you?
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: SPANG on March 08, 2012, 06:46:14 AM
The man I thought was dead  -------------- is not!   He will therefore, do my resizing, 'posting' etc..., as he's done before!
Thank you all, for your kind offers of help.
 
BILL.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 08, 2012, 11:27:55 AM
... especially after I've done some promissing experiments with bismuth as shielding.
Just have in mind that Bismuth repels magnetism rather than attract. The magnetism will just find an alternative path the same way as any other magnetic or diamagnetic materials do to magnetism.
A shield should absorb magnetism, but no material we know of can do that. Energy can be absorbed, and transformed, but not magnetism.


Vidar
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Rafael Ti on March 08, 2012, 12:27:35 PM
Just have in mind that Bismuth repels magnetism rather than attract. The magnetism will just find an alternative path the same way as any other magnetic or diamagnetic materials do to magnetism.
A shield should absorb magnetism, but no material we know of can do that. Energy can be absorbed, and transformed, but not magnetism.
Vidar
I would say Bismuth just "decreases" magnetic field on side where it's stuck to magnet. I had an impression that the magnetic field just moves towards the opposite side of magnet trying to escape from Bismuth. I couldn't feel repealing or attraction between these two materials... I used two magnets in repealing mode and then put a Bismuth plate between them. The repealing force clearly decreased.  Also it was really easy to put the plate between - the force I used was like there was no magnets around. The similar feature would have powdered graphite I think...
Title: Re: Overbalancing wheel
Post by: Low-Q on March 08, 2012, 01:25:14 PM

I.ve been told, by an eminent member of this forum, that my overbalancing wheel will not work!   I might add, that's HIS theory!
I've offered this man the opotunity to take, once, and for all, the chance to prove that he's right, by building a 'static' wheel.   There
is only one moving part ---- the hub!   It works, by placing the weights (heavy nuts), around the two circles, mimicing the positions
of the weights.   If the device rotates by 22.5*, the device works.   NOT theory!   The man has declined several times, and blames
ME for his decision not to build the device, because HE'S right -------- end of!    I think he's decision not to build, is a mistake,
don't you?
 
BILL.
Maybe the animation and the picture in the links will explain why there is no point in building the device - even if it isn't exactly how you designed it.


Scenario 1 (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Scenario-1.gif); The whole wheel with its weights on it (See arrows and blue circles for your reference) will overbalance the way the animation shows. No doubt. We can agree on this particular scenario.


Scenario 2 (http://www.lyd-interior.no/Technical/Scenario2.jpg): If the weights are following the grey track (See arrows for your reference), we actually do not need the hub at all, nor a wheel (red circle). And the weights will not go anywhere. This is where I assume our disagreement comes into play.


Vidar