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Author Topic: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser  (Read 121218 times)

Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2011, 05:03:41 AM »
Ok guys I have finished all the reposts that I feel were pertinent to the discussion.

I have left the HHO information in there as in my opinion we simply do not know enough about this technology yet and it would be premature to exclude it on current assumptions.

It might just be the curious guy that gives it a go that makes the breakthrough, so I feel it is only right that they have the knowledge available if they want it. (Plus I personally love HHO  :P)

I think I am going to put up a summary and maybe a new better graphic when I have had a chance to sleep on all this, this technology has really got me excited in a way that has been absent for a while. It is getting my full attention... that's for sure  ;D

RM :)

RM

Thanks for going to the effort of copy and paste.

By all means, if your love is HHO...then so be it.  Who of us has not been warned by friends of a Gal we might be dating and they say "she is no good for ya!" ....but when the love is there...who can stop it???  LOL

May your HHo mistress not take you for every penny you have  :D

Best

Oily Goose

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Offline TheOne

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2011, 05:10:50 AM »
My dear fellow....youre damning yourself before you have even started!!  :-)

An efficient reactor suitable for a 4 cylinder engine could fit in the palm of your hand.  As far as heat goes, there is plenty to be had around the exhaust which is outside the engine bay.  You spread the components around and there is plenty of room.

Best

The only problem is you need to store a lot of plastic in the container to get a useful amount of gas, 1kg of plastic for 1L of oil, So ideal size reactor must be able to contain the amount of L in KG from the gas tank, so it can be big unless you process the oil on your garage :)

So a JEEP with 80 L gas tank. Ideal reactor must be able to store 80 KG of plastic/rubber to get the same mileage?

Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2011, 05:21:23 AM »
The only problem is you need to store a lot of plastic in the container to get a useful amount of gas, 1kg of plastic for 1L of oil, So ideal size reactor must be able to contain the amount of L in KG from the gas tank, so it can be big unless you process the oil on your garage :)

So a JEEP with 80 L gas tank. Ideal reactor must be able to store 80 KG of plastic/rubber to get the same mileage?

OK...good questions but youre still thinking old school and the blinded paradigm.  Virtually none of what you suggests applies because -

1)  We have 80L fuel tanks CURRENTLY because our vehicles are designed to be horribly WASTEFUL gas guzzling pieces of metal. SOoooooo..... -
2)  IF you start thinking that you now have a device that delivers 5X the mileage (minimum)....this suddenly shrinks the fuel tank right!
3)  With a syngas reactor you dont need huge amounts of oil/plastic on hand because a half litre of carbon material catalysed with WATER (dont forget the water), expands the energy density 100 fold into explosive gas.

What do you see with geet?  Thats not complex and its not even the best way to accomplish it either.

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2011, 05:21:23 AM »
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Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2011, 05:36:15 AM »
Heres a little bit of history on where the gasification process started....Good old Germans in the 1920's...damn theyre smart fellas.  By the war era they were producing thousands of barrels of synthetic diesel per day using this method of catalysation from biomass.

What is old is now new again and rather than trashing it, smart countries are taking off with this tech.  Australia has a big plant able to produce synthetic diesel from anything like coal, biomass waste, plastics etc.

All the modern plants are a ripoff of the patented Fischer Tropsch process from 1920.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process


Offline sergenet

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2011, 12:35:32 PM »
I agree with ElectricGoose that HHO is a waste of time and money. I tinkered with it for a while and blew the gasket off my engine because I could not control the amount of HHO going into the ICE. Using emulsifiers to mix water and gas is the way to go plus it is very cheap.

@Chet, if you are going to try and buy/build a gasification unit let me know.
Serge

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2011, 12:35:32 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2011, 01:59:42 PM »
Some thing to look at
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7040-how-turn-plastic-waste-into-diesel-fuel-cheaply.html
--------------
In the Rough the concept couldn't be simpler ,just seems to take Heat?

@Serge
Yes I will be Building a gasifier,It seems like I could go over to my stove and build one from the wifes "pot" inventory?
However .................
Lets do it right!!
Loop it!!

Chet
PS
And with all these great ideas on how to get the most out of the Fuel?
 we'll put these to work during proccessing and once again during final application!
This is going to be a sweet deal
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 04:14:14 PM by ramset »

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2011, 04:26:39 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I was planning to do a write-up this morning consisting of a review of where we are with these concepts, when I woke up I realised I could do much better...

You all want an environmentally friendly electric vehicle right ?

Well then... here you go :)

I have put up two new diagrams of the Gasifier Energy Conversion Valve covering both priming and ignition cycles.

The valve is opened and closed via a voice coil timed from the shaft.

The Ignition Spark is achieved via a Buzz Coil unit also timed from the shaft.

The Non Return Valve prevents flashback through the atomiser.

The Energy Conversion Valve converts the static high pressure from detonating expanding gasses to fluid velocity and directs it into the turbine.

I would suggest that you go with the Winglet Boundary Layer Turbine of Ken Riely design as a first prototype turbine, as this design is tried and tested and there is an excellent build resource available to you:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/gmpr/ptbc15.htm

The basic concept is that plastic is gasified and combined with water before being atomised and injected under pressure into the ECV.

The ECV then detonates the fuel and sends high velocity fluid into the turbine disc stack causing a torque moment.

The turbine can also be enhanced by tapping the output rotary moment to run a pump to create water pressure that will be pulsed into the turbine via a K valve, increasing the mass flow rate of the working fluid and also cooling the turbine.

The idea is to run the turbine at a constant speed to turn a permanent magnet alternator. The electricity generated will determine the size of electric motor you can run.

A battery bank is used to buffer the electricity produced via the PMA and a charge controller prevents overcharge of the battery bank.

All of this, along with the water tanks can be mounted on one of these buggy's:

http://www.blitzworld.co.uk/joyrider-sport-rolling-chassis-kit-2010-i861.html

Enjoy :)

RM :)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2011, 04:26:39 PM »
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Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2011, 06:25:27 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Just an additional thought to the Gasifier ECV post previously...

Timing off the shaft for valve opening and closure, and also ignition from the Buzz Coil, may be unnecessary. The pressure inside the chamber will equalize in a set time variable by the feed pressure, you simply need to fire the charge when the chamber is primed. This simplifies things a lot, no need for timing wheels and reduction gear boxes. A turbine will accept the energy at any point in it's phase rotation.

Also the comments on HHO being a waste of time only really apply to ICE's. There are other options to pursue for ICE's that are much more usefull such as this thread is discussing.

There are other options for HHO as my work clearly shows. HHO is also a prime mover fuel that can be generated by sunlight and so may become extremely important in the future for rehydration of our deserts. So I would encourage anyone interested in HHO to continue the research, but perhaps consider an alternate end use for it, and not plan on running an ICE directly off 100% HHO.

RM :)

Offline sergenet

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2011, 06:37:49 PM »
@evolvingape, my thoughts exactly concerning HHO. Thank you.

Serge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2011, 06:37:49 PM »
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Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2011, 07:18:57 AM »
Dont forget to look into the Plasmatron fuel Catalyser that was buried after MIT conducted all that work on it.

VERY simple device and basically an electric version of the Geet unit.  It bolts to the front of your carburettor.  This is how it works -

TWO intakes
1)  AIR with high voltage plasma that the air passes through
2)  FUEL adjacent but insulated from the HV plasma.

The two streams mix prior to being sucked into the carb and you get an efficient catalysing of the hydrogen to fuel.  Results showed a 22 - 28% fuel economy increase and thats with NO water added.

Notice the common vector yet?


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2011, 01:16:35 PM »
Hello Everyone,

I have copied this text below from this page:

http://www.finishsystems.com/economystainlesssteelpressurepots.html

“NOTICE: We want to make prospective pressure pot customers aware of corrosion issues using water base coatings, and especially water solutions in Teflon coated pressure tanks, or aluminum 2 quart cups.
Water-base coatings and solutions contained in closed Teflon tanks can develop rust where the film is broken around the gasket ring welds. Plated steel fittings, which penetrate the lid will also rust from the humidity contained in a closed tank. When every day coatings and solutions contain water we recommend stainless steel pressure tanks.
Aluminum 2 quart cups can also develop rust (white powder) when coatings and solutions are stored in the cup for an extended amount of time. However this corrosion does not occur when the cup is cleaned and air-dried after each use.”

NOTE: If there is a plastic liner in the pot then it is going to melt... FREE FUEL  ;D

You can also get heavy duty cast iron paint pots:

http://jeffersontools.com/air_tools/category/spray_guns/29/81/

And you can get miniature stainless steel paint pots for water based paints:

http://jeffersontools.com/air_tools/category/spray_guns/29/78/

So no need to use the aluminium ones as the stainless can be got so cheap if you shop around :) The last example above is going to be a complete stainless system for prototyping with melting pot and injector assembly for about £20 GBP... a bit of a bargain me thinks ;)

Hope that helps :)

RM :)

P.S. I think the standard Paint Cup to Spraygun fitting size on Spray Guns is 3/8 BSP...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1LT-SYPHON-SUCTION-FEED-PAINT-CUP-POT-SPRAY-GUN-NEW-/170636768682?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item27babe75aa


Correction:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-spray-gun-starter-kit-prod19501/

This is 1/4 BSP fitting...

Morale of the story: check the fitting size carefully so you know what your working with :)

Additional picture see link for description:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/fuji-fuji-xpc-gravity-spray-gun-prod810316/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 01:51:26 PM by evolvingape »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2011, 01:16:35 PM »
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Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2011, 02:24:32 PM »
Hi Everyone,

This is the Silverline version of the spray gun:

http://www.silverlinetools.com/products?search=spray+gun

The specifications page of the High Pressure version is here:

http://www.silverlinetools.com/media/manuals/763556_Z1MANPRO1.PDF

We can see that the working pressure is 45 – 60 PSI

And this paragraph tells us that pressure in this gun controls the atomisation size:

Pressure Spraying

After selecting correct size fluid orifice, set fluid pressure for desired flow. Open atomization air and test spray. If spray is too fine reduce air pressure. If spray is too coarse, raise air pressure. Adjust pattern width and repeat adjustment of spray. Keeping fluid control knob in position will reduce fluid needle wear.
NOTE: To reduce overspray and obtain maximum efficiency, always spray with the lowest possible atomization air pressure.

And here is a good 12V DC Water Pump at 70 PSI that will connect directly to your car battery 12V system:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Marine-Automatic-Fresh-Water-Pump-12v-2-6-lt-min-70psi-/380294058896?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item588b4ad390

Add a switch and an inline fuse for on / off capability...

So this is all you need for a complete prototyping system to run your ICE from the Gasification of waste plastic.

Simple...

RM :)

Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2011, 02:31:37 PM »
RM

I think youre losing sight of how to SAVE FUEL man.  ANY atomiser is wasteful.  BIG drops of fuel flying through the air and sucked into the engine only to be not burned in their entirity and thrown out the exhaust to pollute the environement and your lungs.

Look at CATALYSING into gas.


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Here is the Melting Pot technology that reloaders use to make lead bullets in the garage.

The small version has no bottom pour capability which means there is no tap to let the lead flow out the bottom into the mold... but we do not need this! The large version has the bottom pour tap but is not going to be used.

http://www.midwayuk.com/apps/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=210973

http://www.midwayuk.com/apps/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=721153

This will allow you to fill the pot with either water or oil and control the temperature of the liquid precisely. Water will evaporate quickly so do not let it run dry, Oil will be fine at 100 C (Chip pan oil) and not burst into flames so will probably be the best option! Suspend the paint pot so it does not touch the sides or bottom of the Melter Furnace... and you need to make sure your paint pot fits with clearance all around or you need a bigger more expensive furnace!

And there you have it... a complete system for prototyping... for less than $200 8)

Who can get their ICE running on plastic and water by the weekend ?

Hehe...

RM :)

Oh yeah... if you wanted to you could strip the tubular heating element out of it, build it into a stainless steel outer container to surround the paintpot, add a small inverter, add a liquid pumping system like your radiator system on your car, and then you got a complete system for on demand generation in your engine bay...  ;D

Online ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2011, 03:00:06 PM »
Wow
I can not believe how simple this plastic to fuel actually is!
This Fellow Jetjis is a Jem
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7040-how-turn-plastic-waste-into-diesel-fuel-cheaply.html

I'm not even half way through his thread yet!

350-400 C seems to be where this all starts to happen!

And with all the info being presented here ,getting the most out of the Mix will be very interesting indeed.
@Mr.Goose
Plasmatron??

Chet

 

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