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Author Topic: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser  (Read 121329 times)

Offline ElectricGoose

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This is a new thread to develop FEASABLE WORKING products that are KNOWN to be FACT.  In the interest of efficiency, please post only factual documentation or prototype schematics that you have personally worked on so that this remains a quality thread with devices easily replicated for others.

Discussion was previously held at the "4th of May water announcement thread".

RM and Chet....if you know a way to quickly bring over some of the pertinent discussions from the other thread, please do so.

Thanks.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ElectricGoose

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RM

Your mind is working overtime man!  ;D  Yes the Gasifier is a great device because it is so flexible in its design.  You know, Austria has huge Gasifier turbine energy plants where they utilise wood chips to make 'Syngas' which then feed the turbines and create electricity.

Here are some great FACTS for you about PLASTIC and synthetic products.

1)  Waste plastic and rubber is FREE and there is plenty of it.
2)  It is manufactured from oil and hence, energy can always be converted back into its previous form (sometimes at MINOR cost
3)  If making LIQUID fuel from plastic, you can recover more than 80% of the petroleum back!!!!!  This is huge.
4)  IF utilizing a 'reactor' to make Syngas (Gasifier), your recovery rate can be even higher than that!!!

RM....your thinking about the preheating ELECTRIC module of a syngas reactor (to start process when engine cold) and then untilizing some other form of waste heat to heat the gasifier (think Exhaust), is right on the money!! 

I cant state this clear enough guys - FORGET HHO FOR NOW.  The amount of energy you spend in splitting the water to only have it recombine is a lot of pointless busywork and it only costs you effort and heartache.  HHO is a real bitch to tune also!!

THINK about the suggestions I have given you and the upsides are -

1)  They work on conventional ICE's
2)  Very little to no tuning is required
3) No elaborate electrical setup
4)  HHO has to utilize clean water with nasty chemicals and you are always cleaning the damn thing.

If you go the route of Syngas, Oil/water emulsion, Fume bubbler, WITH WATER VAPOR INJECTION, the reaction is done for you via catalytic process and you get the same massive energy boost (often MORE) than you would with HHO.

OK...now about Gasifiers/Syngas reactors.  For all his talk about cold fusion and magnetic poles blah blah....this is all that the Geet Reactor is....a VERY efficient Syngas reactor utilizing the waste heat of exhaust to catalyse water and carbon molecules within a venturi.  The output is very thin CLEAN syngas.  You could utilize anything carbon based on the front end of a Geet.

OK...now attempt to simplify and miniaturize.

Regards

Offline ramset

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E Goose
Very nice place you have here!
For me Making Fuel from waste plastic ,the way "Blest" the Japanese Comp Does Would be A good Goal.
  Making the Gas [Liquid Or Vapor] Then Running the whole process In a Loop Plus Extra!,Thats My kind of OU!!
AS I recall User Resin Rat commented something about a narrow Temp window where the magic happens ,He intimated that it wouldn't be easy
for the Doit Yourself crowd!

This may have been for the Tougher plastics ,I also remember something about 400 degrees F?

An 80% return is Stupifying ,We gotta give this a go...........

I am most definately going to play with this!
I hope Resin Rat can share some of the Chemistry involved with this?
I will Pm him ,And Beg is Input here................
Thanks
Chet

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Offline TheOne

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I like this concept to recycle plastic or rubber, recycling car tire would be very great and so easy to get and free.

To get a car/truck to run 100% from it, what is the size of the reactor that we need, you will probably never able to
put in the engine bay where all the heat is located?

If you put in the trunk the problem is to get move the eat from the engine bay in the reactor.

Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:    

"I don't buy that part of %2 gasoline in the water it would just pool up in one or two place's. I doubt it would even get through the system, if it did it would go through as a glob of gas not a %2 mixture. It would have to be injected some other way, not sure how?"
     Pete


OMG...cmon people...youre thinking so small and not even towards the outside of the box yet!

Of course its not going to be a glob of gasoline floating in a big tank of water, however there are ways to mix water and oil you know!!!

Im not going to give you the ultimate answer to water fuel but I will laugh at Mr X's 25 - 30% 'saving and give you two suggestions that will EASILY give you 50 - 70% fuel saving and a minimum 50% increase in power.

Forget HHO and all its baloney.  For all the work and energy that you put in, there are 'windows' of massive explosive power that can be gained from water but these are so small in the experimentation and so finicky that they are almost impossible to replicate.  HHO GAS alone is troublesome and a waste of time.  Not to mention all the expense of parts, making the device, distilled water, chemicals, constantly cleaning the stupid thing and more.

Here are two things you can replicate SIMPLY and test with old engines.

1)  EMULSIFIERS - Emulsifiers allow the oil molecule to be bound up into the water.  (This is how you run diesel engines on as low as 50% water to waste oil mix by using the correct emulsifier).  You know those lotions you put on your hands and face?  They utilize emulsifiers!!  They have to otherwise each time you open the container, you would be faced with the water components separated from the oils in the lotion.  Pre-mixing the fuel with the assistance of an emulsifier that will burn off without leaving residue in the engine is the key to BIG savings for diesel engines but can work with gasoline also.

2)  As 'TheOne' suggested, a VERY SIMPLE option for old carburettor gas engines is a plain tank of water with the gasoline floating in it (no emulsion).  You use the vacuum of the engine to draw the air through the bubbler and this agitates the gasoline water mix and the vehicle subsequently runs on FUMES and evaporated WATER VAPOR which enhance the detonation.  Unlike normal injection or carburettors which are designed to SPRAY the fuel (in what seems gigantic wasteful droplets), the bubbler FUMES and there is virtually no waste or pollution thanks to the water also.  Additionally, due to the water being EVAPORATED off, you dont need to go to the expense of distilled water.

Anyway, this is all very easy to test on a small or large scale.  Buy yourself an old bunky for your daughter who is about to get a drivers licence and install a bubbler tank on it!  It will require minimum of tuning also (unlike these pure HHO systems) and slash your fuel bill by at least 50% for hardly any effort.

The answers are out there.  Knowledge is the key to everything and this is nothing compared to what can be accomplished.  However before you all start waste time jumping from one thing to another chasing dreams that might never be and some cold fusion powered car that you will likely never see in your lifetime, start making changes RIGHT THIS INSTANT.  50% fuel saving is not to be laughed at and its not some pie in the sky idea....its old school physics that work.  Stick it to the man now!

THINK!!

ElectricGoose

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Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:

    "I suddenly find myself liking  Mr. electric Goose
    What would be a good surfactant for diesel??
    Do you have any links to study?"

    Thanks
    Chet


Chet my dear Fellow

I said EMULSIFIER not SURFACTANT.  They are not entirely the same and certainly will not help you in the fuel 'alloying' stakes.

Read up on OIL EMULSIFIERS and in particular, look for an organic emulsifier (plenty of them).  All you need it to do is bond the water droplets around a glob of oil fuel and bingo you have super fuel more explosive than diesel itself.  Just google it....I'm not doing a 'Tito' here and toying you along.  I have given you a simple answer, Im just saying that you should research a little yourself to aid education.  Its all easy to find.

@Everyone - I have said this before.  OU has been presented on forums many times and yet it goes ignored, unnoticed or whatever.  I am pretty sure one of the biggest obstacles to REPLICATION is that 1) people dont read properly and follow the instructions to the letter and 2) There is a 'pre-mindset' of "I know better" and they are already altering the design without trying the original first!

I gave you guys two really SUPER SIMPLE suggestions and all I ask is that as a first step, you do exactly this - TRY IT AS SUGGESTED TO THE LETTER.  I promise you it works.  After you have it working....THEN try and improve on it.

Believe me, with some not so fancy alterations, you can get your 'water fuel alloy' mix down to VERY lean numbers (under 10% fuel).  This sure beats buggering around with stupid HHO where you are burning energy to get less out.

All the best.

ElectricGoose

Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:

Oh hell, I'm in a less than grouchy and generous mood today  ;D

Here is a patent that proves 40% oil/ 10% emulsifier/ 50% water is FACT.

Obviously this is a very technical document with an end product that is supposed to have a good 'shelf life' so don't read it and think "oh crap this is all too hard".  You can make fuel emulsion at home in your blender.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090313885

ElectricGoose

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Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:

Well Mr. Electris Goose
I think I actually do like you...........
And if you can get this idea to manifest in my Burner head of my furnace .......
I could actually learn to "love" you!!

Running different "soups through my engine [FI Diesel]without the benifit of "do this its good".,Is a little to dicey for my "budget" {this does all sound "pantone-esk]

But playing with a burner head and some "emulsifiers"  with a lasor therm
Till I get the right "recipe" that's doable !
{provided I don't go Abnormaly "Toxic" with emission }

This is all starting to sound very familiar ? Didn't some fellow from India get  a 90 -10 ratio [water to  fuel]running on some secret sause mix [patented]?
 Part of The Trick being he got it to stay in solution !

your sudden "Benevolent" mood is greatly appreciated!

I hope you don't wake up "Cranky" tommorow!
Your friend
Chet

Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:

@CHET:

You had it when you said Goose’s advice sounded very similar to Pantone.  It is exactly what Pantone is doing (bubbling air/exhaust gasses through the fuel) MINUS the reactor.  This is how Pantone was able to run a 4 stroke engine on raw crude oil.  If you guys followed Pantone’s free plans, you could run your cars off of raw crude oil just like Paul did.  Why just gasoline?  Cut out the middle man.  Why do you think Pantone was harassed so much in the U.S.?  Because the crooked major oil companies in the U.S. saw that Paul Pantone could make it possible for people to cut them out of the loop and render their refineries useless.  They need for you to need them.  They don’t want you to be able to refine your own fuel as you drive.

Once you are running your cars off of raw crude oil, you can eventually phase out ALL of the U.S. gasoline refineries who are screwing us all as they gouge us without any government protection like the lie Obama told to get elected where he promised windfall profit taxes he said he would impose on the U.S. oil companies that he pussied out of.

Now the biggest challenge will be buying raw crude oil from oil producing countries.  I do not know if this is or is NOT possible.  If it is NOT possible, then this would be something to run by presidential candidates (making it legal for us to buy direct from oil producing countries which will make them compete for our business again) in our upcoming 2012 elections.  I will vote for ANY (and I mean ANY) candidate who would enable people using this kind of technology to buy directly from ANY crude oil vendor.  If they want our votes, they will at least consider it.

This will make fuel more affordable and less polluting at the same time.  Paul Pantone gives away the plans and permission to build one unit per individual.  It would be a start at least.

In a prior post I stated that we needed oil but this was just a poor attempt at reverse psychology.  I apologize for this.

Oscar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline evolvingape

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Repost from original thread:

"your sudden "Benevolent" mood is greatly appreciated!

    I hope you don't wake up "Cranky" tommorow!
    Your friend
    Chet"


Chet

OK..its been a tough day but I have come home and I have a couple single malts under the belt plus a nice 78 Sangiovese....right now my benovolence knows no bounds so hang on to your hat.

 My first wish is that 'you' (everyone) question everything.  This is a good thing.  Extremes are destructive in that, on one end you have the guru followers who simply believe what looks believable and on the end you have those who believe nothing (new) is possible.  I ask that you not believe what I (or anyone else) has to say carte blanche, BUT if it seems MILDLY feasable, entertain it long enough so as to test it yourself and prove to YOURSELF what the TRUTH is by EVIDENCE.  This is how I have conducted scientific experiments.  If you are honest and humble with your approach, the truth will be made self evident and eventually lead you to the answers you seek.

Now that I have stated this....lets get down to making some fuel.

Chet (and everyone)... you dont need raw heavy unrefined crude oil in order to make fuel emulsion.   Anything as 'light' as waste frying canola (vegatable) oil will do the trick.  Once you have a recipe down pat, you are only limited by your creativity.  Large and small fast food places PAY waste haulers to remove there old oil.  If you beffriend a local, hamburger joint with chip fryer, there is nothing that will stop you from taking a couple drums a week for a case of beer.

Think of OIL as the positive pole of the battery and the water as the negative.  The further these two are apart the better.  I mean by this, that the HEAVIER the oil, the more bang for your explosive buck.  Strictly speaking you can make a fuel emulsion with very thin oils, however the explosive 'expansive' power is less.

OK...now back to emulsifiers.  The only problem with an emulsion (end product water oil fuel combined) is that if you dont combine it properly it will start to separate in the fuel tank before it eventually gets to the engine.  You can get around this TWO ways.

1)  Have the Oil and water in separate tanks and combine them with a simple mixer JUST PRIOR to combustion.
2)  Prepare the fuel mix in a more stable manner where the shelf life is assured.

YOU are the experimenter and how you want to go about it is up to you.

IF you use an organic emulsifier Chet, you will have no worries of toxic emissions and in fact with the water combination you will virtually have no nitrous toxins to speak of normally associated with diesel or heavy oil fuels.

The ONLY MINOR changes you MIGHT have to make to a diesel system for emulsion fuel is  in the fuel pump.  Some like a certain viscosity or wont tolerate water.  I dont know ALL the systems and therefore can't say which will be ok on which for certainty.  Additionally...most diesel fuel systems have a in line water removal filter and this can be done away with.

Now about Gasoline bubblers - -

ElectricGoose
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 04:35:37 AM by evolvingape »

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 03:57:23 AM »
Repost from original thread:

Gasoline bubblers are VERY simple.  If you have an old weed whacker, lawn mower or generator, I suggest you start small and work up.  A crappy vehicle is fine also.

I have already explained what you need to do.  As 'the One' has pointed out, it is Pantonish without the reactor.  Quite frankly, all that buggering around with the reactor really doesnt do a lot in my opinion when the majority of fuel efficiency is accomplished by water evap injection and fuming.

Normally, a engine running too lean would be far too HOT and this would lead to all sorts of issues.  However, with the introduction of the water vapor, not only do you 'cool' the burn but this has an anti detonant effect, creates higher compression and increases torque a tremeondous %.

I suggest you read up on the wikepedia info regarding 'standard' water injected engines, (mainly used in F1 aircraft such as the Red Bull Air Race).  This will give you and understanding of what what water vapor accomplishes inside the combustion cylinder.

OK....hop to it....theres savings to be made!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2011, 03:57:23 AM »
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Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2011, 03:58:43 AM »
Repost from original thread:

Well now Mr Goose... how nice of you to join the party!  ;D

Two excellent posts there so I thought I would chime in too if you don't mind...

This might interest you:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10572.0

So we do not need to access the crude oil directly from the pumpers, it is all around us. This new plastic into oil technology combined with what your talking about could very well provide the bridge technology we need to utilise all the ICE's in current use.

The link you posted about water injection into engines made me smile so I have reproduced my favourite paragraph below:

“Water injection has been used in both reciprocating and turbine aircraft engines. When used in a turbine engine, the effects are similar, except that preventing detonation is not the primary goal. Water is normally injected either at the compressor inlet or in the diffuser just before the combustion chambers. Adding water increases the mass being accelerated out of the engine, increasing thrust, but it also serves to cool the turbines. Since temperature is normally the limiting factor in turbine engine performance at low altitudes, the cooling effect allows the engines to be run at a higher RPM with more fuel injected and more thrust created without overheating.[3] The drawback of the system is that injecting water quenches the flame in the combustion chambers somewhat, as there is no way to cool the engine parts without cooling the flame accidentally. This leads to unburned fuel out the exhaust and a characteristic trail of black smoke.”

As you probably know I am a turbine man and have written extensively about them recently. The two key posts to pay attention too are these:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10274.0

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10451.0

These are important in regard to that paragraph because we can see that we now have a way of using water injection in a boundary layer turbine that increases torque on the shaft (not thrust) and at the same time cools the components of the turbine.

We also do not suffer the drawback of cooling the flame causing fuel to be incompletely burnt, and can also cool the combustion chamber separately because I have removed it from the turbine.

So you now have all the knowledge you need to build your own water injection, HHO detonation, rotary turbine system. Turbines are not ICE's and perform a different function.

What they do very well is maintain a very high constant torque, this will allow them to be the perfect engine for powering a constant speed PMA and provide what we need for converting water fuel to electricity in an electric vehicle.

When we consider that electrolysis is still very inefficient and is a fledgeling technology then large improvements will be made in the future. I find all this very exciting.

I sometimes wonder to myself how many of you realise what I have given you, the silence indicates I think that quite a lot of you do, which is good :)

RM :)

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 04:00:14 AM »
Repost from original thread:

Following on from the previous conversation I have had a chance to sleep on it and believe this might interest you all...

If we were to utilise the plastic to oil technology to make our own oil then we would have a hydrocarbon liquid with different properties, depending on what plastics we put into the “sauce mix”.

If we were to utilise a solid state mixer just prior to injection into the chamber then no emulsifier would be required, simplifying things massively, as we would not need an additional raw material and there would be no problems with changing the recipe.

The image I have put up is from this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector

Anyone recognise its operating principles ? You should because it works the same way as the HELIS, in mechanical only mode without an electrolytic closed system crossover function.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10218.0

So it will be very simple to make your own with off the shelf components and stainless steel hydraulic fittings.

I would suggest that the motive fluid is the water, powered by a water pump, as it will have the necessary mass flow rate we require.

The entrained suction fluid would be our oil. I would suggest some kind of metering valve such as a needle or butterfly to control the oil mass flow rate which will change depending on the viscosity of your sauce mix. It will also allow you to adjust the power of the engine from the “cockpit” if you remote control it.

If you had a “Mr Fusion” on board for emergencies and you ran out of fuel, you could strip the dash or the bumper off and make some more to get you out of trouble. You could also go find some ground water to refill the water tank.

So any thoughts ?

RM :)

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 04:01:23 AM »
Repost from original thread:

Evolving Ape

Yes, I have considered the emulsion with the emulsifier and this has been accomplished.  Really this whole thing is only limited by how complex or simple you wish to make it.

Emulsifiers have the problem that if you don't chose the right one, they will leave a residue after burn.  Additionally, if you dont get the formula correct there is the worry of separation if stored for prolonged periods.  Mixing in some prechamber as you suggest gets around both these concerns.

The bottom line is....don't get bogged down with huge design issues. Start with something and work from there.  You KNOW that oil + water in a 50:50 ratio when hitting a hot surface will immediately 'flash' into a expansive superfuel far more volatile than oil or diesel by itself.  Make this your bench mark.

If you have a little diesel engine that you can experiment with, the simplest way to circumvent emulsifiers is first making sure that the fuel pump is in order and will handle a water/oil mix.  After that, anything as simple as 'blending vortex' chamber prior to the fuel pump and primarily the INJECTOR RAIL is where you will want the mixing of water and oil to occur if you don't include a binder.

If you agitate/whisk water and oil enough until the oil 'beads' are very small, they will actually stay in solution long enough without the emulsifier to make it through to the injector rail.

ElectricGoose

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2011, 04:02:41 AM »
Repost from original thread:

Hello again Mr Goose,

I have done some further thinking on our discussions and I now wish to share with you my current direction...

For me emulsification technology is a no go. I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, your work in this regard is admirable, but it fails my criteria.

The reasons for this are that an emulsifier requires a stable raw material, acceptable quality control, a continuous support structure, and considerable R&D. It is also suited more to mass production than on demand supply.

All of these are outside the resources of the common man. My aim of the game is to provide technology that does not require me and my specialist knowledge. A failsafe mechanism if you will.

So, I have worked upon Injector technology and come up with my Injector Mk1.

This utilises off the shelf stainless steel 316 fixed female tees, sleeving technology, ECV inserts and diffuser technology.

Water pressure is generated by a pump and forced through the ECV, oil vapour is sucked in under vacuum just before the area of maximum compression, and is then propelled from subsonic to supersonic.

This supersonic velocity soup is then forced through a 10 Micron Gauze causing atomisation (or close too), before being fed to the Injector Rail.

Note that I have inverted the Oil Vapour Inlet, this is to prevent on shut down water entering the oil boiler.

This design also removes the need for a condenser chamber as with the standard plastic to oil technology. The condensation of the oil vapour occurs upon vacuum suction into the water stream just before the area of maximum compression.

This means all we now need to do is melt the plastic in a stainless container, simplifying the architecture, and the vapour gases are sucked into the injector, not liquid.

Control the mix by controlling the injection hole diameter. For prototyping start small and then simply drill the next size up and compare performance until optimum is achieved.

With a plastic boiler installed in the boot of the car and the fuel tank of the car filled with water instead of petrol it should be a simple retro fit.

RM :)

 

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