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Author Topic: More efficient wind mill??  (Read 6850 times)

Offline Dr

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More efficient wind mill??
« on: April 22, 2011, 03:49:05 AM »
I was researching wind energy a short while back and came across a radical design by the French back in the 1800s. It was called the Panemone, it rotated on a verticle axis, and had 30 verticle vanes or sails! I must admit it looked impressive! has anyone here ever heard of this wind mill?

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More efficient wind mill??
« on: April 22, 2011, 03:49:05 AM »

Offline nightlife

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 04:02:09 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panemone#Efficiency

The panemone is one of the least efficient types of wind turbine.

Offline Dr

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 09:33:17 PM »
After looking at the web site you posted, I saw nothing close to what I saw in a book in the library. The Pane mone I saw Had vanes 2 meters high and about15" wide and there were 30 of them. The total dia. appeared to be about 30 feet. It was mounted about 20 ft. off the ground. Less efficient I think not!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 09:33:17 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Thaelin

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 01:47:20 AM »
   If you dont mind the howl a bit, I have two F&P motors and both do a fine job of generating power. One is wound with #18 and makes good amps. They are common now in washing machines too. Even if you have to rewind them, a deal.

thay

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 12:20:26 AM »
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buch-der-synergie.de%2Fc_neu_html%2Fc_08_08_02_savonius.htm
                                                                      Wind Pillar
 "Under suitable wind conditions ,the 500 W system generates  around 4500 KWh of electricity per year,  ....." ???
        1 year = 8766 hours a 0,5 KW = 4388 KWh  ::)
       Better engineering not possible. !  8) perpetuum overunity wind engine( under suitable condition)

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espv-tec.de%2Fpid_10028%2F
It seems they do not anymore market wind systems. !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 12:20:26 AM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 02:25:53 AM »
LancaIV,
do you know this turbine here by Mike waters ?
http://rexresearch.com/waterswind/waters.html
I reccommend his presentation ( 59 min), dated 2014  if you have the time. He is a character and a funny guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp1wPwszF9M
There are some replicatinions I guess ( have to look them up myself ).
Funny one here, a bit shaky : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0quZDdN53M
and here more professional: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_hSOutOOiI
Mike


Offline ramset

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 02:44:01 AM »
I did see a big version of this a few years back in Bloomsburg Pennsylvania USA {still looking for the Pics I took},Oddly I believe it was behind an auto dealership,was a prototype as I remember ?
part of a proof of concept evaluation ?

Chet




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 02:44:01 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 01:36:18 PM »
Yes Michael,  you delivered me/ us this info several years before. !
It was related the Fanerator and better fan  ! https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=9318

The Waters concept shall be 122 times better than conventional blades aerogenerators and this means thatthe average speed and conversion vx3 is in average 5 times higher.


Idea  for 24/365 shaft rotation energy explore :

https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=9374

          for no/low wind situation this transmission coupled to the shaft
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19950803&CC=DE&NR=4402337A1&KC=A1#

+. transmission gear motors energy source

During daily natural sunlight : un-/ concentrated solar cells

or

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900201&CC=DE&NR=3817730A1&KC=A1#
or
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19831209&CC=FR&NR=2528257A1&KC=A1#

All this ideas are now - 2019- open source and fee/ licence free



Doubling the generator output ( for the Wind Pillars or Waters Wind cage concept, fuel gensets et cet. )
https://patents.google.com/patent/CA2748183A1

Alternatively : Wind generator +
https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=12841

Looking to the above scheme and remembering :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=2009079393A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20090326&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#
+ Wind generator charges battery( with-/out transmission gear Motors)

+ Solar cells charges battery
 https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100615&CC=ES&NR=2341161A1&KC=A1#

From inverter output amplification by :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=2&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20190207&CC=JP&NR=2019022271A&KC=A#

or
https://patentauction.com/patent.php?nb=11462
 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 04:16:21 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 10:41:36 AM »
A  financial efficient DIY-wind turbine concept and plan :
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Ftechnologie%2Fgreen%2Fmarke-eigenbau-tueftler-entwickelt-windturbine-fuer-22-euro%2F13549092.html

60 Km/h  ~ 17 m per second : " up to 1 KW " !  Probably overestimated ( or teste approved  ? )

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wind-of-change.org%2Findex.php%2Fertrag.html
Power Curve of the1 KW Helix Turbine by 12,5 m/ sec +

http://www.opensourcelowtech.org/wind_turbine.html

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arestov.de%2Findex.php%2Fde%2Felektromotoren%2Fwindenergie
Conventional 400 Watt nominal generator : 20 m per second wind velocity :  70 Watt output

               17 m / 20 m per sec wind-force  : 1000 W / 70 W  generator output
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:24:41 PM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 10:41:36 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 01:45:05 PM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oFKDFd-bSa8
Estimated 700 - 800 KWh Wind electricity gain per annum  : ~ 100 Wh per hour constant
        Price : 9800 Euros + up to 2500 Euros installation
                                               Economic worth ? 

                                                     100 Euros. ?
Can an 100 W per hour constant electricity conversion system costs ( less)  than 100 Euros 2019  ?
                                         1 Wpermanent/1 Euro challenge

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=9&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19900201&CC=DE&NR=3817730A1&KC=A1#
            1989 : average solar cell efficiency  5%

http://www.buch-der-synergie.de/c_neu_html/c_04_11_sonne_verstaerkungstechnik.htm#Spiegel
                       Reflector use as solar/artificial light concentrator

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=De&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Paul+marzahn&IN=&CPC=&IC=
                Artifical light conversion with reflector use,  5,25 % solar cell efficiency

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20100615&CC=ES&NR=2341161A1&KC=A1#
              Artificial light conversion without reflector, solar cell efficiency 10%

                                 ( 240 W/1,8sqm  / 1333 W solar constant = 10% Wp conversion eff.)


Bernd Koehler : ( 35 Watt fluorescent lamp x ? lumen) x 0,0525 ( = 5,25% efficiency cell)

                               +- 1330 Watt-lumen x 0,0525  ~ 70 Watt conversion

                                   The lux/ lumen formula is based by FIXED 1 meter distance !
                          50 cm,25 cm, 10 cm distance light emission( nm ,frequency,color ) effect  ?                                                                                                   
       
                                                               FLUX AMPLIFICATION

2019 : 15% solar cell efficiency average,  2020: 20% efficiency average

1989 : fluorescent lamp efficiency?  Common optimization up to 2019  -30% electricity consume by same lumen           
                                      Perfection : with-/ out controler
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19911001&CC=US&NR=5053933A&KC=A#

A  little more than 100 lm/Watt for fluorescent lamps reachable !
Total system perfection would be based by photon and phonon conversion :
https://www.greenoptimistic.com/green-ferrite-solar-cell-japan-20110920/

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2019, 10:42:30 PM »
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-m&q=szilard+pataki+akos+honti+patent&oq=szilard+pataki+akos+honti+patent&aqs=heirloom-srp..
1995 International award win for the( 1995 ) 17 years old hungarian inventors Akos Horn and Szilard Pataki
http://epub.hpo.hu/e-kutatas/?lang=EN
Efficiency in comparison with conventional blade rotor : + 200%  measured on prototype modell
https://www.neues-deutschland.de/ausgabe/1995-11-28 " Reichlich Windkraft"

                                 "The Hungary Converter"
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nuetec-forschung.de%2Fwind%2Fwind.html

                                   Poeschel-generator

http://www.aladin24.de/htm/images/poeschel_generator.jpg
Easy enough for fast and accurate 3d metal printer http://windwandler.de/
But also - with 3,5 KW generator and average 2,6 m/sec wind : 800+ KWh pess.  to  2800+ KWh opt.  p. a.

Price  ? https://www.haustechnikdialog.de/Forum/t/11629/Fragen-zu-Windwandler-WINDUS2004                  7000 Euro.                         for this Wind converter ( Mast,  Installation incl. /excl. ?)
Interestant for wind generator investors   :
 https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwindwandler.de%2FPages%2FLEIST_3.html

4 different examples with same average 2,6 Km/h per annum but the gains dependant from peak velocity
and the power density and conversion difference between 2,6 m/ 22 m per second wind force :

                   2,6 m/sec : 4 W                 and.                   22 m/ sec : 3300 W
               
                   as nominal 3500 Watt generator output ( nominal RPM ?)

                  8,5 times higher Wind velocity means 825 times higher Wind power
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:57:16 AM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2019, 10:42:30 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 01:40:07 PM »
From Wind mill  to wind- ing generator. :
Generator
https://patents.google.com/patent/CA2748183A1
+Motor-couple
 https://www.voanews.com/silicon-valley-technology/can-better-electric-motor-save-plane
1 KW mechanical output : 0,9 (  0,9 ~ 90% for conventional e- motor efficiency) ~ 1100 W electric input the Catalan motor needs 1/2 the electric input compared with conventional e- motors : 550 W e- input

1 KW mechanical e- motor output x 0,9 ( 90% efficiency for conventional e-generators) ~ 900 W electric output the Hara generator doubles the electric output = 1800 W electric output

Input/ Output calculation Hara-Catalan- couple :
550 W in and 1800 W out , in one year 4.821 KWh input and 15.778 KWh output :

                                                                      C.O.P. 3,27
So we have in future several solution for energy exploration :Wind ( with/- out motor assist) Solar ( un/- concentrated) and static or rotative kineto-electric force amplifier
( Hey ramset/Chet,  did you get some results about " 1/3 output improvement by generator coil coating " ?  ;) )
                                                                      C.O.P. 3,27 x 1,333( Periode :-[ ) ~ 4,36   ::)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 09:51:52 PM by lancaIV »

Offline lancaIV

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Re: More efficient wind mill??
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 07:33:02 PM »
Comparison:
400 W conventional generator
400 Watt modified generator

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arestov.de%2Findex.php%2Fde%2Felektromotoren%2Fwindenergie

with 3500 W conventional generator

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwindwandler.de%2FPages%2FLEIST_3.html
 20 m/sec conventional 400 W generator : 70 Watt output   70/400 = 0,175 ~ 17,5% efficiency 

20 m/sec  conventional 3500 W generator : 2100 Watt output  2100/3500 = 0,6 ~ 60% efficiency         

                         20 m/sec = 72 Km/h stormy weather

5-6 m/ sec modified 400 W generator : 140 Watt 140/400 = 0,35 ~ 35% efficiency
5-6 m/ sec conventional 3500 W generator : 70 Watt 70/3500 = 0,02 ~ 2% efficiency

                      5-6 m/sec =  22 Km/h coastal steedy breeze

10-12 m/sec modified 400 W generator : 320 Watt 320/400 = 0,8 ~ 80% efficiency
10-12 m/sec conventional 3500 W generator : 500 Watt 500/3500 = 0,143 ~ 14,3% efficiency

                      10-12 m/sec = 43 Km/h strong wind

17 m/sec comparison  +- 1300 Watt with 3500 Watt ( RPM ?) generator
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwindwandler.de%2FPages%2FLEIST_3.html
        7000 Euros +

17 m/sec : 1000 Watt with ?? Watt/RPM generator
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wiwo.de%2Ftechnologie%2Fgreen%2Fmarke-eigenbau-tueftler-entwickelt-windturbine-fuer-22-euro%2F13549092.html
    25 Euros + generator +


          Daniell Connell turbine + Arestov double winding generator
        (  also here , for 24/365 electricity generation option : Li Yng transmission coupled on shaft )
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 09:34:26 PM by lancaIV »

 

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