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Author Topic: Hydro Differential pressure exchange over unity system.  (Read 855530 times)

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 12:18:34 PM »
The principle of operation.

The water hose example I gave earlier is critical to understanding my process. Please review it if you did not already consider it.

I am going to use real numbers from the Z.E.D. in the photo's on my web site.

The Inner chamber(where all externally applied force is applied -{input}), has a horizontal surface area of 707 square inches. and is 20 inches tall.

It is the open end of the hose where force is applied (hose example).

When that Z.E.D. is at rest (fully down), the internal pressure is 1.8 psi Due to head pressure this pressure cannot be removed - unless the system is drained or reversed (vacuum applied).

1.8 psi is not sufficient to overcome the weight of the upward mobile parts - so in Essence, it is sunk (an absence of buoyancy).

In this position, as in the water hose, we are at rest - with no real work potentail, other than the natural head.

When air/or water is injected into that chamber - the displacement moves the first body of water and results in a transfer of the the "applied force" to the next pocket of air, that air is pressurized and the energy is transfered to the next body of water, that water transfers the force to the next pocket of air, that air stores the energy and so on through the system.

Each pocket of air has stored energy, each body of water does two things, transfers the energy and adds back pressure (head) to the internal chamber.

Successively, as in the water hose example. The greatest pressure is in the center and has a pressure drop equal to the additional head - until atmosphere is reached - the end of the hose.

This process is called precharge, it requires an input volume up to the volume of the second body of water from the center chamber - if this volume is exceeded, water will be transfered to the air pocket - and blow the operation. Since pressure must be overcome to blow over, limits on the input pressure solve this problem.

Each successive body and air had to be sized to match the different circumference, and match that volume to the different pressures successively.

Water volume is a constant controlled by clearance, air volume changes with pressure (roughing it worked) but our modeling of our large system was much more precise (higher efficiency).

Prior to this point - the only work that has occurred has been input - we are completely buoyant at this point, held in place by resistance to the "float" by hydraulic pressure - until our upward force exceeds the minimum.

Opps, you do not know where the buoyancy cam from, two places - first we raised the water around the system - twice its original depth, and secondly, we applied the air pockets (pressure) - individually to horizontal surfaces.

The forces combine and are centered at the shaft to the hydraulic cylinder.

That covers our precharge - work prior to stroke.

The volume required to create the lift is determined by how much you want to lift - my little Z.E.D can lift 7000 pounds, or 500 pounds -  the resistance at the hydraulic cylinder limits the force that can be created, it also regulates the input.

If addition effort (pressure and voluem is input) and the required force is exceeded - the hydraulic cylinder captures the force and transfers it it to the accumulator.

The accumulator is where you set the system pressure - and you must match the diameter of the hydraulic cylinder to to force applied and the pressure needed.

The little Z.E.D. has a cylinder with a piston surface area of 4.9 square inches, so if we wanted to operate at 7000psi, we would produce  7000/4.9 =  1400 psi hydraulic.

That number is ideal, and leaves no room for error in chamber sizing, our little model was tested in four ranges, 1,100, 900, 700, 500 psi.

We changed the accumulator pressure set point to control the system pressure.

In conclusion of the recharge status,

Couple of notes:

On our demo model, the volume of input required to reach fully charged is 1/11 of the total requirement to stroke.
(and yes the bigger models are more accurately sized - thus have an even better ratio).

The pressure required is directly related to the newly created head, which also translates to the output force.

4 psi in the precharge translates to over 3200 pound force in actual measurement - if you do the math my inner chamber has only 707 square inches, and we are lifting a series of layers, so the 4 psi x the 707 square inch's does not match = 2828 - load, this is because each successive layer is larger in diameter than the next - so the upward force has a larger surface area than the downward force between layers.

Most of the extra lift is eaten up in the process of lifting layers and overcoming static pressure on the hydraulics.

Yes, the increasing large surfaces areas do create overunity by themself - but as I said about my last two models, nothing to sell.

The real gain comes later,

This may seem like a lot of work to do slight better than a pneumatic cylinder - well that is because - it is not the lift that I had to overcome in my design:

The second hurdle in using buoyancy to generate energy - HOW DO YOU SINK AN OBJECT THAT IS NORMALLY BOUYANT - WHILE MAINTAINING THE FIRST HURDLE - HOW DO YOU REDUCE THE VOLUME REQUIRED TO MAKE AN OBJECT BOUYANT?

I bold these, not to yell - but they are the right questions that had to be answered to make my overunity device work.

I stumbled (during my early models - how to overcome the volume issue - lots of applications to that design. It took down right hard effort and lots of real MONEY to answer the second.

Thank God the first discovery was enough to convince people to help.

More later.

Mr. Wayne







« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 01:27:03 PM by mrwayne »

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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 12:57:59 PM »
....
The Inner chamber (where all externally applied force is applied -{input}), has a horizontal surface area of 707 cubic inches. and is 20 inches tall.
...

Dear MrWayne,

English is my second language and I am a 'metric, SI' guy so I wonder whether "Imperial" guys use cubic inch for quantifying surface area instead of square inch?

And later in your description, you use that cubic inch data for further calculations like this:

Quote
...
The little Z.E.D. has a cylinder with a piston surface area of 4.9 cubic inches, so if we wanted to operate at 7000psi, we would produce  7000/4.9 =  1400 psi hydraulic.

That number is ideal, and leaves no room for error in chamber sizing, our little model was tested in four ranges, 1,100, 900, 700, 500 psi.

and

Quote
...
4 psi in the recharge translates to over 3200 pound force - if you do the math my inner chamber has only 707 cubic inches, and we are lifting a series of layers, so the 4 psi x the 707 cubic inch's does not match = 2828 this is because each successive layer is larger in diameter than the next - so the upward force has a larger surface area than the downward force -
...

so I wonder if these calculations are still ok?  I ask this because in metric system it is not at all the same if I use cubic centimeter for measuring Volume instead of square centimeter for measuring Area.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 01:05:55 PM »
Dear Conrad,

I do not think I was talking in riddles? Maybe I talk too much, I have been accused of being long winded ;)

But you make a very good point, it has made me pause, should I disclose this or keep it secret?

I have no reason to disclose my discovery, I do not need you to validate my working proto type?

My intentions are obvious and stated:  To Bring Free Energy to its proper Revolution, my plan is marketing, licensing, and manufacturing the machines.

It appears that your advice is - if I truly have "over unity" I should keep it a secret to protects the rights.

You could be right.....it does make sense - in a self preservation mindset.

Little personal note:

I struggle with the wisdom of sharing/secrecy.

If you share, you risk loosing your control of the substance, if you do not share, you risk loosing the benefit to the world.

My motivation for this invention is not for my personal gain, but I also invested five years of my life and nearly my entire portfolio to get the point I am at, with the expectation of using it to provide for my family.

I do not think it is wrong to hope for an income from the discovery, and if I can do that and disclose - I will.

I thought solving the sink issue was hard, now I am darned if I share, darned if I don't?


From your advice, I will discuss the operation - but not share the inner design.

I will remain glad to share with anyone that comes to see and signs a NDA, and I have never charged a person.

I do expect the right person to show up that has the same vision, and the ability to execute it, or help me execute it.

I have made many copies of everything and distributed it, for protection.


Thanks for your input.

I think i will still do a video -everyone already can figure out what free energy would mean to the world, we don't need a bunch of hype, just get it done, manufacturing - and the right people.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 01:05:55 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2011, 01:10:20 PM »
Yeah, thanks on the cubic inch correction, I meant "Square" I was thinking surface area not diameter of the cylinder and it just came out Wong.

Thanks I will fix it.


Offline ramset

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2011, 02:38:05 PM »
mrWayne
Yes ,You need to decide If you're Open Source,That's the theme here.
The amount of people that come here and do what you are doing is unbelievable,And we never see a device in public [not once]!

People work their life away for a meager paycheck ,and if their lucky a watch after 25-30 years.........
Your work of the last few years Can change the whole world forever!

Comes down to a Choice.
Wisdom?? [you already Know the right thing to do!]
It will take Courage
Courage Springs Forth from Love!

Chet


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2011, 02:38:05 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2011, 02:58:18 PM »
Thanks Chet,

Can anyone answer - legally ...

Does "open source" mean giving up your rights of inventorship?

Such as implying you are giving it away freely?

Can you share your discovery without giving up the rights to it?

I understand it can be copied as soon as the first production model is out of my protection?

what are the limitations of this forum, in protecting an inventor, who wants to share, but not throw it away?

I am in the process of mutually signing a non disclosure for a green company in Australia, does that lose all value here?

Wayne


Offline ramset

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 03:12:38 PM »
Buddy,
Unfortunately you need to see a lawyer,And in the long run.. The lawyer will be the Guy that makes the Money on this!
Par for the Course!

Good luck!

Chet
PS
Tell you what,There is a Guy Up in Canada "Thane Heinz",From Ottawa University
He also has a "Tidal" device ,Look him up .
Several people here have gotten Patent info /offers of help from him.
We thought he was Open Source also?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 03:41:40 PM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 03:12:38 PM »
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Offline core

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2011, 04:25:21 PM »
Thanks Chet,

Can anyone answer - legally ...

Does "open source" mean giving up your rights of inventorship?

Such as implying you are giving it away freely?

Can you share your discovery without giving up the rights to it?

I understand it can be copied as soon as the first production model is out of my protection?

what are the limitations of this forum, in protecting an inventor, who wants to share, but not throw it away?

I am in the process of mutually signing a non disclosure for a green company in Australia, does that lose all value here?

Wayne

Since the explosion of the internet the patent protection/ inventors protection is a bit murky. If you write about your idea on a forum or web page it is considered 'Published'. If published you must wait one year prior to patenting.

Regardless, I had a family member who worked for a patent company and there is a seldom spoken process that most company's don't want you to know. It is called 'Poor man's Patent' and this is something anyone can do for cheap. Also it puts the Government on YOUR side.

The 'Poor Man's Patent' is legal in the USA I'm not sure about other countries. It goes like this.

Step 1:
Define your invention in complete detail on paper. Include print-outs of this forum and pictures. Do not be lazy here, it must be in DETAIL as it would be used in a court of law. You must prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the idea is yours.

Step 2:
Place all data in a US postal office envelope, you will be mailing this to yourself. The post office will 'stamp' your envelope with a 'Date' (very important) Note: When this happens it becomes Government certified.

Step 3:
When you receive the package in the mail 'DO NOT OPEN IT....NEVER!!!!!' This is a sealed Government certified package.

The purpose If someone takes your idea, even a company, you have a SEALED document Government and TIME stamped that contains enough information to prove 'Who' is the inventor. This package must only be open in a court of law by a judge Only a judge can open the sealed document. If you tamper with it 'You lose' keep it in a safe spot until that day comes.

Above is 100% legal but not known by many.

Regards and good luck.

Core


Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2011, 04:31:49 PM »
You are right, I will ask my lawyer.

To date, my attorney has charged me some where over $24,000 on this one patent.

He is expensive, but at least he is honest - he originally refused to "waste my money" by patenting another "over unity device"

After he and his engineer team (NDA) studied my machine, performed the patent search and they did come to the house (demo), they insisted on being the patent lawyers - but not for free.

I pray I am the exception to the rule.

All I know for sure- it wont be the design that stops me. 

Thanks and greetings.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2011, 04:31:49 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2011, 04:57:58 PM »
OK, the real over unity device is going off line.

If and when I am sure it is safe, I will release all IP here, you all deserve to know.

Concerning the Z.E.D. it requires seven square feet of air at atmosphere (prior to compression) to complete a stroke.

The compressed PSI is of course set by the resistance to the travel, the travel stroke length is also determined by the pressure.

So my internal design converts 7cf of air into Buoyancy - that lifts equates to 4 psi = 3200 pounds and travels eleven inches, 7 psi = 5500 pounds at 8 inches.

Those are the real world numbers - and the weight of moving parts has already been subtracted.

That is not much more than a standard air cylinder - the difference is - the exhaust.

When the system is topped out -(the hydraulic system has stored the upward force), the system doe not reverse itself.

in fact the inner most chamber is forced downward when its pressure drops - by the head pressure in the layers above it.

This causes the layers to separate and continue to push down during entire exhaust.

It is like a loaded spring releasing.

We use that air to assist in the operation of the other Z.E.D

In short the Exhaust supplies over half of the power needed to raise the other side.

And then we switch directions.

Less than half of the energy captured in a single side going up is used to supply the input energy.

All of our input is performed hydraulically, and all of the energy the generator (ran by the excess) produces is free.

No compressor, no noise, and the only wear parts - besides the electrical generation - is the seals in the four hydraulic cylinders.

I have four cylinders, two larger, and two half that size, the larger captures the energy, the smaller assist in pushing the air to the other side.

pretty simple to verify. one stroke for one stroke.

I think I will leave the rest as Conrad said - Secret for the protection.

But I am willing to share with most anyone with a non disclosure.

mr.wayne@hydroenergyrevolution.com

You will see the old rule of thumbs going away, and those of you that just knew it in your hearts - are right.


Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2011, 05:22:51 PM »
Thank you Core,

I believe the patent laws were just changed to - "first to file" is awarded the patent.

This was just a month ago, they took out the "moment of inspiration".

Which is why the poor mans method worked.

Wayne

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2011, 05:22:51 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2011, 08:51:11 PM »
Dear Conrad,

I do not think I was talking in riddles? Maybe I talk too much, I have been accused of being long winded ;)

But you make a very good point, it has made me pause, should I disclose this or keep it secret?

I have no reason to disclose my discovery, I do not need you to validate my working proto type?

My intentions are obvious and stated:  To Bring Free Energy to its proper Revolution, my plan is marketing, licensing, and manufacturing the machines.

It appears that your advice is - if I truly have "over unity" I should keep it a secret to protects the rights.

You could be right.....it does make sense - in a self preservation mindset.

My advice: Disclose fully or stop saying anything in public!

You say: "my plan is marketing, licensing, and manufacturing the machines."

If this is your plan, you should not say anything in public before you have patented (in multiple ways) and manufactured many useful machines.

It just does not make sense to talk about something which one is not prepared to explain and proof in all details. Doing this just angers people because you want their consent or admiration without making it possible to check your claims. "Sharing" and "trying to make money" are two pairs of shoes, if you want to wear both you look funny.

If you want or need money, stay with the money makers and stop showing off in public. First of all, erase your silly website. It scares away all serious investors. And people who think about OU hate it even more, because it is a tease.

If you want to share (which means giving up all claims and all control) prepare comprehensible documentation of all necessary details and hand it out for free so that people can make their own experiments. You will want as many independent replications as possible (in order to be believed) and you will want as many people as possible to try to make money from it (which will make the device reasonably priced). Many people do not realize, once truly and fully disclosed, nobody can patent it any more. And of course, nobody has any hold over it any more. There can always be patents on new details, but who needs them, there are always alternatives.

From your rumblings, insinuations and riddles, I gather, that you seem to believe in a new principle of using buoyancy to generate excess energy. If this principle is valid, there will be endless ways to take advantage of it. You will only be able to patent a few ways of using this principle, never all possible implementations. So, eventually it will be out of your hands.

If I had invented an OU machine I would go for publicity, handing out all information for free in order to stay credible. But I am an old man who has enough to live comfortably.

My opinion: if you want to make money, buy something for 1000 Dollars and sell it for 10.000 Dollars, you will live comfortably with this 10% gain. (The point of this silly advice: in order to make money, you do not even have to understand how to calculate percentages, you just have to be prepared to take advantage of somebody.) In other words, either make money or try to be a good guy, you can not be both. The money maker who wants to be liked is a sorry sight. And the good guy who wants to do good for money is even worse.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 11:52:34 AM »
The contradiction or the wish that can not be fulfilled:

The inventor of an OU device wants to be believed, but he does not want to give away the details. But without knowing the details nobody can check his claim and therefore nobody will believe him.

Remarks:

The inventor of an OU device says "I do not have to proof anything to you". Yes, you have to proof everything for free if you want me to believe. The way out: the inventor has to give up the silly wish that I should believe him without irrefutable proof.

So, if you have invented an OU device and you do not want to give away every tiny little detail or secret, stop asking people to believe you. Stop wanting to be admired. Stop rambling, stop insinuating, stop seeking the consent of people who can not form an opinion, because they can not check what you claim.

So, if you have invented an OU device and you want to make money from it, stop the silly wish to present yourself as a "savior". Stop playing the guy who wants to save the world. Stop playing the guy who does it for my good. Be a good business man and make money if you can. I can deal with any business man if he can sell me something I can use or something I think I need. If this something is not yet ready for practical use, well, keep it, I wont buy it. A business transaction has its own rules, which have to work out if you want to succeed.

If you want to sell something, "believe" is not an option. The device must work, it must deliver what you promise, there has to be a warranty in case it does not work, the life span of the device has to be reasonable, repair service and guaranty period has to be offered, and so on.

Ahh, your device needs further development, it is not ready to be manufactured and sold.

Well, why do you need me to believe you? Why do you need my admiration, I (and the general public) will never invest. You only have to convince an investor (and not me or the general public).

And according to my experience with investors, they have their own personal likes and dislikes. Some even are prepared to believe tall stories, because they have too much money and like to play a risky game every now and then (like gambling). There, with the investors, you play your "make believe game", your "energy revolution tale", your "I have found a secret" story. Money makers are suckers for secrecy, they will like it, they believe in "lets protect this secret first".

If you want fame, you have to give away the reasons for your fame for free. If you want money, keep your secrets and talk to people who believe in money.

My opinion, why OU is the worst possible choice for money making:

If ever we find OU, it will be a new source of energy or a new way of transforming one kind of energy into an other kind of energy. In other words, it will be a new law of nature not yet discovered.

Once this is discovered, there will be millions of ways to use that principle and it will take decades till something really useful comes out of it. The "discoverer" (who may see himself as an "inventor") will not be believed for a long time. Mainstream science and public opinion have a high inertia which needs first of all "time" to be overcome.

You can not patent a law of nature (or a principle), only a way of using that law by help of a contraption. And there will be endless ways of implementing a principle. There will be thousands of patents.

It is by no means assured that the discoverer of a new law of nature will get credit for his discovery. Clever business men will come out with it with a new name and a new spin. Mainstream scientists will present it in their own words and claim fame. Hundreds of people will claim that they have found it before you. Many will sell books about it.

Well, I think I have made myself more than clear.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline baroutologos

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2011, 08:15:54 PM »
unfortunately, Conrad speaks the ultimate truth.

My bet is you never going to make big money out of any OU device. Not the amounts you though anyway.
your best business bet is to sell custom based devices locally or with small and agile businesses.

Seeking large corporations to sign multi-million dollar deals is a dead-end i am afraid. On the other hand if you share it, you may risk to lose rights and large sums of "potential" money, but certainly be my hero. (especially if i can replicate that :P )

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Hydro Diffirential pressure exchange over unity system.
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2011, 09:27:41 PM »
Thank all of you for your help!

I have been contacted by open minded people - looking for the anomaly - proof of the impossible.

Dear Conrad,

I did not join this furum for philosophy, or for self - engrandment - but to share the joy of my hard research.

I recognize "small pie" thinking, and most of the time it is right, logical, pessimistic, and seemingly wise.

We need to encourage others, at your age you understand a great deal, be careful, no man plants a tree that he expects to climb, but instead he thinks of future generations.

I choose to be "Naive" because at heart, I am an adventurer, explorer, motivated by discovery of the unknown.

It is sad when Experience suppresses others, you may think you are helping, you can never know, one day someone will succeed, - but how much wiser it would have been to help those willing to try, rather than dash dreams.

What was the cost to you, nothing.

What was the real cost of failure - nothing,

and the real cost of giving up - everything.

I can not imagine that this forum was created, and joined by a group of people to watch, proclaim, and ensure that others fail.

I love trouble shooting, solving problems, - I find no room for impossible.

Even if I had failed myself. I would choose to believe it was eventually possible myself.

Live long and strong!

Wayne






 

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