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Author Topic: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement  (Read 67991 times)

billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2011, 12:22:11 AM »
Quote from: mscoffman on May 03, 2011, 08:11:26 PM

Yeah, that is one of my favorite SMOT videos , even though I can't
read a word of the text....It seems like the "ramp" could be made as
long as necessary, then position energy collecting coils (or whatever)
all along the way... then have a "one battery" style alarm clock motor
with the battery replaced by a capacitor charged by the coils diode
or'd together *slowly* drag the runner across the sticky spot.

If those clocks can run for a year on one AA battery, they can't take
much energy to keep them going.

---

The other question is could you have the array accelerate the ball
faster downhill then have it rise up over top of the starting point?

It should be possible to "shoot" the ball into the array at various
speeds and record the outcomes. Is any energy really being added
by the magnets? If one saw the transfer function as a graph
it might be easier to design a successful mechanism.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Mark take a look at the video I uploaded to youtube last night. Its under my topic SMOT- New Video I posted on this site also last evening.
Yes you can speed up a ball with a SMOT configuration and have the ball exit on a flat surface, no drop. I  am planning on using this on my return ramp to allow extra energy to reenter the SMOT.
Bill
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onthecuttingedge2010

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2011, 02:47:33 AM »
you would need either more kinetic energy and or more torque added to the S.M.O.T experiment

here is a way to add to the kinetic velocity using gravity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhOiXCRQu0A&feature=related
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billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #77 on: May 04, 2011, 03:42:02 AM »
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 04, 2011, 02:47:33 AM
you would need either more kinetic energy and or more torque added to the S.M.O.T experiment

here is a way to add to the kinetic velocity using gravity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhOiXCRQu0A&feature=related
Yes I have seen this video in the past but had forgotten about it. This could be very useful.Thank you!
Bill
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fritznien

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #78 on: May 04, 2011, 03:49:46 AM »
it shows the ball reaching the end faster but not with more energy/speed.
fritznien
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mscoffman

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2011, 09:13:29 PM »
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2010 on May 04, 2011, 02:47:33 AM
you would need either more kinetic energy and or more torque added to the S.M.O.T experiment

here is a way to add to the kinetic velocity using gravity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhOiXCRQu0A&feature=related

Thanks for bringing this up. I studied the mathematics of it (on google)
and it is a serious thing, it is not a trick or optical illusion. When calculus
was first invented it was a one of the first major problems used for the
mathematicians group study.


:S:MarkSCoffman
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gravityblock

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2011, 02:47:08 AM »
Quote from: fritznien on May 04, 2011, 03:49:46 AM
it shows the ball reaching the end faster but not with more energy/speed.
fritznien

The ball reaching the end faster, also traveled more distance, thus it had more energy/speed.

GB
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fritznien

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2011, 04:07:36 AM »
GB when the ball is at a lower level it has more speed/energy but it finishes at the same level with the same speed/energy.
there are better videos that show two balls starting at the same time and level with the long route ball rolling at the same speed as the
other ball but in front when they both finish on the same level.
if the low ball finished with more energy we would not need the smot.
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gravityblock

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2011, 07:39:08 AM »
Quote from: fritznien on May 11, 2011, 04:07:36 AM
GB when the ball is at a lower level it has more speed/energy but it finishes at the same level with the same speed/energy.
there are better videos that show two balls starting at the same time and level with the long route ball rolling at the same speed as the
other ball but in front when they both finish on the same level.
if the low ball finished with more energy we would not need the smot.

A ball traveling a greater distance, and in less time, can only do so if it acquired more kinetic energy than the other ball (total energy from start to finish).  This additional kinetic energy gained is lost in transversing the greater distance.  Also, some of this additional kinetic energy is lost during it's uphill travels in order to reach the same level again as the other ball.  Despite losing kinetic energy in transversing a greater distance and losing kinetic energy during it's uphill travels in order to reach the same level again as the other ball, it still finishes first.  It takes more energy to transverse a greater distance than it does to transverse a shorter distance.  Which path performed more work?  Both paths start at the same level, and both paths end at the same level......so each path has the same potential in this respect, and should perform the same amount of work, but this isn't the case.

It is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important. The impulse is equal to the change of momentum.  An impulse is defined as the integral of a force with respect to time, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_%28physics%29

GB
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Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2011, 07:51:58 AM »
Quote from: gravityblock on May 11, 2011, 07:39:08 AM
A ball traveling a greater distance, and in less time, can only do so if it acquired more kinetic energy than the other ball (total energy from start to finish).  This additional kinetic energy gained is lost in transversing the greater distance.  Also, some of this additional kinetic energy is lost during it's uphill travels in order to reach the same level again as the other ball.  Despite losing kinetic energy in transversing a greater distance and losing kinetic energy during it's uphill travels in order to reach the same level again as the other ball, it still finishes first.  It takes more energy to transverse a greater distance than it does to transverse a shorter distance.  Which path performed more work?  Both paths start at the same level, and both paths end at the same level......so each path has the same potential in this respect, and should perform the same amount of work, but this isn't the case.

It is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important. The impulse is equal to the change of momentum.  An impulse is defined as the integral of a force with respect to time, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_%28physics%29

GB

Yes, but.. although the ball travelling the greater overall distance finishes first it has an extra advantage, gravity... in my mind, gravity is the ONLY reason why it can be first. It falls a down further than the straight track and there for can utilise gravities force better.
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gravityblock

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2011, 08:26:52 AM »
Quote from: Poit on May 11, 2011, 07:51:58 AM
Yes, but.. although the ball travelling the greater overall distance finishes first it has an extra advantage, gravity... in my mind, gravity is the ONLY reason why it can be first. It falls a down further than the straight track and there for can utilise gravities force better.

Both paths start at the same height and end at the same height, so gravity doesn't provide either path with an extra advantage (The net fall is the same for both balls).  All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome.

GB

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Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2011, 08:32:05 AM »
Quote from: gravityblock on May 11, 2011, 08:26:52 AM
Both paths start at the same height and end at the same height, so gravity doesn't provide either path with an extra advantage (The net fall is the same for both balls).  All that exists is the impulse that is applied to the body in space and imparts momentum to it. The body's movement is then only limited by the resistance it has to overcome.

GB

I agree that both start and end at the same point.. but one of them DIPS lower (during its voyage up and down)... its this dip that gives it, its extra momentum
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gravityblock

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #86 on: May 11, 2011, 09:01:34 AM »
Quote from: Poit on May 11, 2011, 08:32:05 AM
I agree that both start and end at the same point.. but one of them DIPS lower (during its voyage up and down)... its this dip that gives it, its extra momentum

The one that dips lower doesn't always have the most momentum or advantage, as can be seen in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QPMO6bo4E

In the below image found in the above video, the path which dips the lowest doesn't win.  The middle path wins.  It is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important (the impulse) .

GB
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Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #87 on: May 11, 2011, 11:21:34 AM »
Quote from: gravityblock on May 11, 2011, 09:01:34 AM
The one that dips lower doesn't always have the most momentum or advantage, as can be seen in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QPMO6bo4E

In the below image found in the above video, the path which dips the lowest doesn't win.  The middle path wins.  It is the product of the force and the time for which it is applied that is important (the impulse) .

GB

ok... agreed :)
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surrender

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2015, 08:58:19 PM »
Where did Bill go??
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