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Author Topic: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement  (Read 53971 times)

Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 07:36:59 PM »
@billmehess:

My 2 cents.

When your ball exit from the gate and fall down, then it lose some energy
in the crash with the bottom; you must to smooth this fall
to gain energy in this phase with a gentle slide. Not too gentle
otherwise your ball don't exit from the gate and not too steep

otherwise your ball wastes energy.

Icarus
When the ball falls off the exit point it falls into a scoop which causes it to come back up and land on the exit board at a much higher spot than if it just fell off. The scoops angles are such that
a minimum amount of energy is lost in the fall. Its in the video!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2011, 07:42:00 PM »
@billmehess:

My 2 cents.

When your ball exit from the gate and fall down, then it lose some energy
in the crash with the bottom; you must to smooth this fall
to gain energy in this phase with a gentle slide. Not too gentle
otherwise your ball don't exit from the gate and not too steep
otherwise your ball wastes energy.

Icarus
when the ball falls off the end of the ramp it enters into a scoop which causes it to roll back up and enter the exit plate at a much higher level than if it just fell to the floor. Also this angle is gentle so that a minimum amount of energy is lost. Its all on the video!

Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 07:48:46 PM »
Bill,

Here is something you may want to try.
The track is level.

Groundloop.
This has been tried many times it will not work as the ball will not be able to enter the second set of magnets, At that point there is a strong repulsion effect.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2011, 07:48:46 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2011, 08:14:03 PM »
To : Fat Chance, LowQ & Poit

Of course the ball can enter the SMOT. There is NO replusion here, the SMOT eaisly sucks the ball into it. Look at the video with the two SMOTS, the SMOT3 001 video, and you will see that CLEARLY in the second what I called a "down and dirty SMOT" I built it just to show this effect.
Again there is NO replusion only attraction at the SMOT enterance.
Any slowing down is only due to friction!!!!!!
The ball enters the magnetic conf. at a good speed. It exits the scoop at a good speed. What I have done so far has been able to reduce my initial height from about 2" to less than 1/2"
Will I be sucessful in this last hurdle, time will tell.
 Potential energy is not a problem, it is a non factor. As far as the ball not being able to leave the SMOT due to height every video shows it doing just that.
Yes, it is, but the slope are too steep to slow down the ball significantly/visually. I have done both simulations and practical experiments on this. A ball running on a horizontal track, and approach a SMOT ramp, will stop before the ramp an be pushed slightly backwards again, but close enough the ball will be attracted. However, to get close enough, work must be applied. This is because the ball at a given distance, and farther away are magnetized with the flux that is not between the magnets, but the flux that is going from outside one magnet and into the outside of the other magnet. Therfor the ball will have S and N at the same sides as the magnets in the SMOT. But this magnetism will change polarity when the ball are getting close enough between the magnets.

Make a simulation in FEMM, and it is the quite clear what is happening.

Vidar

Offline Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 08:45:40 PM »
To : Fat Chance, LowQ & Poit

Of course the ball can enter the SMOT. There is NO replusion here, the SMOT eaisly sucks the ball into it. Look at the video with the two SMOTS, the SMOT3 001 video, and you will see that CLEARLY in the second what I called a "down and dirty SMOT" I built it just to show this effect.
Again there is NO replusion only attraction at the SMOT enterance.
Any slowing down is only due to friction!!!!!!
The ball enters the magnetic conf. at a good speed. It exits the scoop at a good speed. What I have done so far has been able to reduce my initial height from about 2" to less than 1/2"
Will I be sucessful in this last hurdle, time will tell.
 Potential energy is not a problem, it is a non factor. As far as the ball not being able to leave the SMOT due to height every video shows it doing just that.

I said the OPPOSITE to that... the ONLY reason why the ball can leave the exit part of the gate is due to gravity. To prove my point, take away the fall and have the ball go up the slope and then make it escape the gate on a level track (no falling at all), impossible. It can NOT escape the magnetic fields that brought it there to begin with.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2011, 08:45:40 PM »
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Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2011, 08:53:37 PM »
Yes, it is, but the slope are too steep to slow down the ball significantly/visually. I have done both simulations and practical experiments on this. A ball running on a horizontal track, and approach a SMOT ramp, will stop before the ramp an be pushed slightly backwards again, but close enough the ball will be attracted. However, to get close enough, work must be applied. This is because the ball at a given distance, and farther away are magnetized with the flux that is not between the magnets, but the flux that is going from outside one magnet and into the outside of the other magnet. Therfor the ball will have S and N at the same sides as the magnets in the SMOT. But this magnetism will change polarity when the ball are getting close enough between the magnets.

Make a simulation in FEMM, and it is the quite clear what is happening.

Vidar
[/quote
Almost everythting you said here is incorrect.
The ball approaches the SMOT ramp with speed because it is sloped slightly down from when it enters the receiving ramp from the uchannel connecting the two plates. The " work" that must be applied is gravity.
The ball enters the SMOT easily !!!!!
As far a FEMM goes they are unbelievably worthless. A sim will not anticipate what actually will happen. I have seen 100's of sims on overunity.com they always show a working device.
Garbage in garbage out.
Please look at the SMOT2 001 video that shows the second SMOT with the ball approaching the SMOT from a distance making a full270 degree turn entering the magnets going up hill and falling over the end. Its all on the videos!

Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 09:07:03 PM »
I said the OPPOSITE to that... the ONLY reason why the ball can leave the exit part of the gate is due to gravity. To prove my point, take away the fall and have the ball go up the slope and then make it escape the gate on a level track (no falling at all), impossible. It can NOT escape the magnetic fields that brought it there to begin with.
I am not using a level track, when the ball falls off the track into the scoop it exits the scoop onto a higher level than if the scoop was not used. The receiving platform is angled slightly downwards so that the ball (due to gravity) will roll to the end down the uschannel and onto the receiving plate which is also sloped slightly downward to the SMOT uchannel. The second video with the second quickly made SMOT shows it CLEARLY entering the Smot up an incline and over the end.
Why would I take away the fall at the end??? Its that energy in the fall and the interaction of the scoop which causes the whole thing to work.
The videos are in front of you.
Are you saying that the ball will not enter the SMOT
Are you saying the ball will not move uphill
Are you saying the ball will no exit the SMOT
Are you saying the ball does not roll completely around (270 Degrees.)
Are you saying that even though the drop is 2 " it does not come within 1/2 " of the entry
Are you saying that the second SMOT showing the ball moving from a distance does not enter the SMOT go up hill and exit it.
I still need to solve this last 1/2" Since the video shows all of the above then thats it.
Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2011, 09:07:03 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2011, 10:16:16 PM »
Almost everythting you said here is incorrect.
The ball approaches the SMOT ramp with speed because it is sloped slightly down from when it enters the receiving ramp from the uchannel connecting the two plates. The " work" that must be applied is gravity.
The ball enters the SMOT easily !!!!!
As far a FEMM goes they are unbelievably worthless. A sim will not anticipate what actually will happen. I have seen 100's of sims on overunity.com they always show a working device.
Garbage in garbage out.
Please look at the SMOT2 001 video that shows the second SMOT with the ball approaching the SMOT from a distance making a full270 degree turn entering the magnets going up hill and falling over the end. Its all on the videos!

As I said, I have not only used simulations to see this repelling effect, but also practical experiments. The ball did repel the enterance of the smot (The area a few inches before the SMOTs enterance. Maybe the ball didn't knew better? No. This practical experiment did without doubt show a definite repelling area. I will try to find the video of it which I postet here at OU.com some time ago.

Anyways, if you are right, and my practical experiment isn't valid, why don't you just close the loop, and post a video of a selfrunner? Closing a SMOT isn't that straight forward. If there is excess energy to fight against friction only, the only matter of a working model is to reduce the friction slightly - not even necessary to have 100% frictionless design - it should work quite easily.

Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
Are you saying that the ball will not enter the SMOT
Are you saying the ball will not move uphill
Are you saying the ball will no exit the SMOT
Are you saying the ball does not roll completely around (270 Degrees.)
Are you saying that even though the drop is 2 " it does not come within 1/2 " of the entry
Are you saying that the second SMOT showing the ball moving from a distance does not enter the SMOT go up hill and exit it.
I still need to solve this last 1/2" Since the video shows all of the above then thats it.
Bill

The ball move uphill with respect to gravity.
The ball moves downwards with respect to the magnetic field.
The ball are assisted with a weak force over some distance to move the ball up the track.

To move a mass up a slight hill do not require much force to do, but you need more distance to it. Over a distance of 5 inches, we can calculate the total energy consumed in this operation. However, when the ball is on the top and wants to drop down, it will require a greater force to prevent the ball from falling vertically. The magnetic field is not strong enough to keep the ball from falling, but strong enough to pull the ball up a slight slope. This is because the force is distributed over a greater distance - a sort of a gear ratio due to the slight uphill.

- You can easily move a 2 ton car up a slight hill, but not be able to hold it back from falling vertically at the end of the hill. This is the principle of operation of a SMOT too.

The ball rolls possibly 270 degrees, but that isnt interesting. The only interesting is to achieve a 360++ degree run.
The 2" drop isn't a fall with acceleration of gravity at 9.82m/s^2. The magnetic field will reduce the acceleration in the fall to less than 9.82m/s^2 because there is a magnetic field which wants to keep the ball from falling, and therfor take away some kinetic energy from the ball in the fall.

The easies way to solve the 1/2" problem is to let the track end 1/2" higher so the ball freely can enter the SMOT again. You claims there is no repelling force to prevent the ball from entering the SMOT, right? So what is the problem? The only problem left is to make a smoother track with less friction. Not neccessarily 100% frictionless.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
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Offline billmehess

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2011, 06:05:39 AM »
Enough of this bantering , let us agree to disagree.
Bill

Offline ramset

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2011, 07:55:04 AM »
Bill,
"That last 1/2 inch"!!

Now that will be Great!!
Thanks for sharing all your hard work here!

Great Stuff!!

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2011, 07:55:04 AM »
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Offline Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2011, 09:44:27 AM »
"The second video with the second quickly made SMOT shows it CLEARLY entering the Smot up an incline and over the end.
Why would I take away the fall at the end???well... you can't.. because if you did, it simply wouldn't work... try it, I understand why you have it there Its that energy in the fall and the interaction of the scoop which causes the whole thing to work.Yes and no, you have the fall because with out it the ball would not be able to escape the end (the small part of the V gate).
The videos are in front of you.
Are you saying that the ball will not enter the SMOT Of course I am NOT saying that, if you have read my previous response you will see I am clearly on YOUR side here.... the ball can enter the smot very easily with no repulsion etc etc... I am on your side on this point 100%
Are you saying the ball will not move uphill  pretty vague statement/question....so I cant quite answer this one... but I will say yes, the ball can move up hill (both with in the smot) and after it has left the smot (assuming you have a drop - like you have shown in your videos)... BUT all that said, I do NOT believe the drop and give the ball enough momentum to bring it back to the starting blocks.... but please, dont let my scepticism here bother you, I would LOVE to be wrong on this point
Are you saying the ball will no exit the SMOT I am saying TWO things... one: the ball WILL exit the smot IF it has a drop at the end (like in your videos). two the ball will NOT exit the smot if the exit is a level (i.e straight) exit... again, I would LOVE to be wrong here, so if you believe differently, prove me wrong, I am always open to being wrong
Are you saying the ball does not roll completely around (270 Degrees.) I am NOT saying this
Are you saying that even though the drop is 2 " it does not come within 1/2 " of the entrySure, you got it 1/2'' of entry, I don't believe you can't can do better, again, please prove me wrong
Are you saying that the second SMOT showing the ball moving from a distance does not enter the SMOT go up hill and exit it.The track you let the ball go was higher than the entrance to the smot i.e when the ball got the entrance it fell a distance, hard to tell from the video, but it looked like a 1/2'' drop.... but this is besides the point, i DO believe that even if it was level that it WOULD enter the smot (as I have done experiments like this before)
I still need to solve this last 1/2" Since the video shows all of the above then thats it.Indeed
Bill"

Let me address each point see above... the bold is my response

Offline Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2011, 09:49:21 AM »
Enough of this bantering , let us agree to disagree.
Bill

"bantering"??? are you serious?? you are getting top notch feed back here!!! Low-Q's points alone would normally cost money to get !! :)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2011, 11:14:52 AM »
Look how the ball is repelled at 1:25, 4:49, and right after he push the ball into the 1/2" step, but when removing his finger will allow the ball to be repelled backwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr98e23biGU&feature=related

Offline Poit

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Re: SMOT - Close to closing the loop ,second video-BIG improvement
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2011, 11:21:46 AM »
Look how the ball is repelled at 1:25 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr98e23biGU&feature=related

noo... it is not repelled by the magnetism, it is repelled by gravity as that part of the track is tilted upwards.... trust me, the entering of the gate is no problem, the problem is exiting the gate (with out assistance from gravity).

 

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