Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8 (Read 696207 times)

e2matrix · « **Reply #165 on:** March 30, 2011, 06:22:07 PM »

Quote from: Magluvin on March 30, 2011, 06:24:16 AM

One thing with trying an inverter at first is, we need to know the impedance at 60hz of the primary. This will determine the amount of idle power in the primary. Some here like sky will need to experiment first, as his way is not as prescribed from the onset, and probably most are looking to eliminate the toaster. lol =]

So if what you build is different in any way from Gabriels, testing should be done at low power to be sure of what the idle, no load current in the primary will be. Just to be careful and try not to suffer any losses, like a $20 inverter, maybe 2 of them, who knows. This can be discouraging.

And Skys setup may work better at other freq, probably higher. Just a guess.

Mags

You may have a point although most small inverters I've used will just shut down if you put too much load on them. I think most have some protection circuit. But it's something to be aware of.

WindsorFarmer · « **Reply #166 on:** March 31, 2011, 05:25:20 AM »

Quote from: e2matrix on March 30, 2011, 06:22:07 PM

You may have a point although most small inverters I've used will just shut down if you put too much load on them. I think most have some protection circuit. But it's something to be aware of.

I'm looking at the diagram on page 5 here, posted by Kampen. Seems to me that the surge protector should plug directly into the kill-o-watt meter. Then the toaster would have one lead in left part of one outlet of the surge protector, and the other lead attached to one lead of the primary coil. Then then other lead of the primary coil will plug into the right part of the surge protector. Series. Does that not accomplish the inductance needed? Why have it that particular way in Kampen's configuration?

On Page 1, the circuit in the original diagram has one lead of the primary bypassing both the surge protector and the k-o-w meter, while the other lead connects with the neutral of the toaster in the surge protector.

If we are trying to get a certain level of inductance, what is the best method?

Sorry, it's been a long time since I worked with circuit diagrams and even longer since I used the theories.

May I will look into making a IC controller.

Mike

Mavendex · « **Reply #167 on:** March 31, 2011, 03:32:56 PM »

Quote from: SkyWatcher123 on March 30, 2011, 02:23:25 AM

Hi folks, I read the tesla patent #us433702 that might be similar to the gabriel device. Tesla says in his transformer, the outer primary shell creates a phase lag or time lag between the primary coil and secondary coil.
Kind of reminds of Thanes rotating generators where at certain speed a lag occurs, causing a repulsive kick to his moving magnets instead of a slow down.
This might explain why a load is not reflected back to the primary in gabriels device. Maybe the higher permeability inner toroid only helps to lengthen this phase or time lag between primary and secondary coil.

Also Tesla points out how his primary ferromagnetic shell will only transfer induction to secondary, if primary shell is saturated enough.
I think this sheds more light on what may be happening.
Even in Thanes design, it could very well be that the larger more permeable secondary transformer legs, only help to create a greater phase, time lag so that the loaded secondary coils do not reflect back to primary coil.
Anyway, here is my finished small gabriel device. I placed two layers of the 24 gauge for the primary coil.
peace love light
Tyson

I'm interested to see what happened with the steel on steel guy? Any news?

Magluvin · « **Reply #168 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:13:49 AM »

Sky, you still with us? =]

Mags

SkyWatcher123 · « **Reply #169 on:** April 01, 2011, 06:18:44 AM »

Hi folks, well I tried using the inverter into a smaller transformer then into the gabriel primary. The inner secondary did power a small lightbulb i have, though my voltage open circuit on the secondary was only 4.6 volts, though i expected that.
This inverter powering the intermediary transformer is sucking way too many amps. My small 7ah, 12volt sla can't cope, maybe they are not able to hold a heavy load much anymore.
So I tried the 110vac directly from the inverter to the gabriel primary and i heard a sparking sound inside the toroid and quickly disconnected it.
So this means I may have to put a resistance in line like mav did. Though even if i had put a load on the secondary like light bulbs, i don't think my battery has the guts anymore to power any high loads.
So what to do, not sure.
peace love light
Tyson

Magluvin · « **Reply #170 on:** April 01, 2011, 06:35:58 AM »

hey Sky

I think the toaster was used because the impedance was low for the freq used.

If you have a way to measure or do the process of finding where the impedance gets to a value that wont pull so much input.

A signal gen will be needed. Also if you have an old audio amp that you could risk sacrifice, you could run audio freq into the primary with input control(volume). It may just get ya there. Just pay attn to input and output as you make adjustments till you find a satisfactory freq and level.

Start high freq and work your way down.
If the working freq is high, the primary will have to have more windings till 60hz is the target.

wishing ya some cop. ;]

Mags

FatBird · « **Reply #171 on:** April 01, 2011, 03:15:01 PM »

SkyWatcher123,

Forget the battery & inverter for now. The Primary Objective is to see if your design works.

1. For Safety & for a Current Limiter, just place a Toaster in series with 1 wire.
2. OR place a 200 W or 300 W Bulb in series with 1 wire.
3. OR place an Electric Blanket in series with 1 wire.

Either one will act as a current Limiter but still allow TESTING of your device.

Thank you for sharing.

.

popolibero · « **Reply #172 on:** April 01, 2011, 04:46:39 PM »

Hi guys,

the toaster in series is needed because the primary doesn't have enough resistance/windings. It's like trying to run a 12V transformer on 220V, if you don't limit current you burn it.

What I'm suggesting is to take standard transformer windings/resistance relationships and apply them to what we're doing here. If you want to input 220V you have to have many windings. Go measure the resistance of a standard 220V transformer with a wattage similar to what you plan on using. The impedance at 60 Hz is very low and is not a big issue. Resistance is.

If one has a low winding/resistance primary he could go up in frequency in order to raise the impedance, if one wants to work with say 220V.

Mario

wayne49s · « **Reply #173 on:** April 01, 2011, 05:37:52 PM »

Quote from: wayne49s on March 25, 2011, 10:04:04 PM

@all

I talked to Jeff and he recommends anyone interested to send a purchase order. The item is called a magnet housing and is half of the toroid, so you need 2 pieces. There is a setup fee (maybe we can get this cheaper if he sets it up for all interested at the same time) and item cost (price is quantity dependent). They accept cheque or COD. His email is jeff@l-sindustries.com (there is a website).

I followed up with Jeff and he's telling me that it'll take a couple of more weeks to retool for the updated shell. I had thought the new tooling was done and Mav had got the new parts. In any case, I asked him to give me the pricing and he's suppose to do that before the retooling is done. I'll ask him to do all the requests in the coming 2 weeks at the same time to minimize the setup cost, if that is possible.

By the way, the Magnetec delivery is quick with DHL, got it in a couple of business days, with no customs issues here in Canada.

/Wayne

e2matrix · « **Reply #174 on:** April 01, 2011, 06:33:19 PM »

Skywatcher, Thanks for trying. I do think a 7 AH battery is way to small for doing anything with this and generally won't work for most inverters except maybe the smallest of them. You might be getting 40 or 50 watts usable power from a setup with a 7 Ah battery and that would be likely dropped to nil if a heavy load is put on it. That's my grab-off-the-wall guess anyway. And as others have said here it sounds like the resistance may be too low to safely run it the way it is now.

ramset · « **Reply #175 on:** April 07, 2011, 03:14:22 AM »

Feynman
How are things?

Chet

wayne49s · « **Reply #176 on:** April 07, 2011, 03:05:19 PM »

@all

Just got the feedback from Jeff. The price is not bad; cheaper if we can get 2 more people interested:

"
Finally I have this put together

Parts are $37.50 for 2 pcs of if you can purchase 10 pcs I can move the
price to $26.20 plus shipping.
Jones is taking 2, Dave is taking 2 and Wayne is taking 2 come up with 4
more.
We plan on running them to ship 4/22 all together

If you have any questions feel free to give me a call

Jeff Fruhling
L & S Industries Inc.
P.O. Box 1564, Kearney, NE 68848
4100 E. 39th Street, Kearney, NE 68847
"

/Wayne

casman1969 · « **Reply #177 on:** April 07, 2011, 03:45:28 PM »

Wayne,

Count me in for two (2).

I've been following this thread since it first came out and other than Bruce's TPU work I believe this holds the most promise. First effort will be to fabricate, using iron oxide, a suitable secondary. Then move on to the better ferrite core.
Will you PM me or how do we make contact?
Has anybody considered the effect of winding the primary in the fashion of Rodin? Just thinking out loud.

wayne49s · « **Reply #178 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:03:33 PM »

Quote from: casman1969 on April 07, 2011, 03:45:28 PM

Wayne,

Count me in for two (2).

I've been following this thread since it first came out and other than Bruce's TPU work I believe this holds the most promise. First effort will be to fabricate, using iron oxide, a suitable secondary. Then move on to the better ferrite core.
Will you PM me or how do we make contact?
Has anybody considered the effect of winding the primary in the fashion of Rodin? Just thinking out loud.

That's great! As far as the Rodin coil, Mav (David) worked on that without success. The first posts mentioned that.

Here's Jeff contact info:
Jeff Fruhling
L & S Industries Inc.
P.O. Box 1564, Kearney, NE 68848
4100 E. 39th Street, Kearney, NE 68847
308-236-5853 Phone
308-237-7786 Fax
jfruhling@l-sindustries.com
www.l-sindustries.com

You should give your info directly to him. And if no one else takes the last 2 piece, I'll take it so that we have the lower price.

/Wayne

casman1969 · « **Reply #179 on:** April 07, 2011, 04:26:48 PM »

Already placed the call and left a message. Will wait for his return call to get on his list and make $$$ arrangement. If you have other arrangement please let me know ASAP.
Glad to know I can strike the Rodin thought.
My stock of magnet wire includes a lot of 18 AWG but nothing bigger at present. Current rating of the 18 will probably preclude using it unless I can parrallel wind both coils. Any chance Litz wire could be utilized?
I take it the only hold up in replication is the steel primary shell. Is that correct?

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Author Topic: The Gabriel Device, possible COP=8 (Read 696207 times)

e2matrix

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