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Author Topic: standing wave coil frequency  (Read 29542 times)

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2012, 11:12:14 PM »
Even the best digital scope will capture inaccurate data if it's using only 2bits of its A/D converter ;)

Your scopes have 8 bits of vertical resolution, so they are theoretically capable of capturing up to 256 levels of voltage.
It's just a matter of setting the vertical sensitivity (analog amplification)  appropriately to the signal amplitude.

I played with the probe settings and the scale settings to get more sensitivity.  Here are the results.
 
I look forward to your comments and analysis.
 
*** All data are stored in overunityresearch.com.  The most likely correct one is shown here.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 04:35:13 AM by ltseung888 »

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2012, 11:12:14 PM »

Offline verpies

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2012, 01:30:01 PM »
I played with the probe settings and the scale settings to get more sensitivity.  Here are the results.
I look forward to your comments and analysis.

A little better this time:

ADS00042 Ch1: 99 levels (77% of 7 bit resolution, 39% of max resolution)
ADS00042 Ch2: 35 levels (55% of 6 bit resolution, 14% of max resolution)
ADS00046 Ch1: 43 levels (67% of 6 bit resolution, 17% of max resolution)
ADS00046 Ch2:   7 levels (88% of 3 bit resolution,   3% of max resolution)

...but the sub 3 bit vertical resolution of the data captured on Ch2 is still unsuitable for further calculations.

7 levels of Ch2 constitute only 3% of your scope's maximum vertical resolution, and that multiplied by the respective 17% of Ch1 yields less than 0.5% power calculation accuracy that would be possible if both channels were taking advantage of their full 8-bit max resolutions.

Also, the summing of the instantaneous power values (Ch1*Ch2) in column E, does not yield average power. 
In this case the summing corresponds to integrating power and the result of this operation is energy.

I don't know if your intention was to calculate the In/Out power of the DUT or its energy. 
In case it was the former - in order to obtain average power, the formula in Cell E11253 should be =AVERAGE(E3:E11252)

Of course dividing output energy by the input energy is also valid and meaningful - I just don't know if this is what you had intended.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2012, 03:55:32 PM »
Experiment on Jan 7, 2012
 
This experiment focused on getting the best sensitivity from the Atten Oscilloscope.  It was different from others focusing on getting resonance.
 
Here are the results:
 
 
Hope this provides better sensitivity or more accurate calculations.  The future experiments may focus on both tuning and senisitivity.  I expect the more accurate results to confirm Output Power greater than Input Power also.  The raw data file is provided here.  With the raw data, I can get the average, the total positive only values etc.  The analysis of the Standing Wave will be much more meaningful.
 
Looking forward to more valuable comments.

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2012, 03:55:32 PM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2012, 12:06:34 AM »
Experiment on Jan 8, 2012
 
This experiment used two 1 ohm resistor connected in series as the current voltage for both Input and Output.  Thus for comparison purposes for COP, we do not need to do the division first.
 
The Output Power waveform has both positive and negative parts.  We can interprete the positive power as power going out to do useful work.  The negative power is the feedback.  For a perfect standing wave, the positive power is equal to the negative power.  Thus the net power required to maintain a standing wave is zero.
 
In this particular experiment, the average output power is negative.  This may be interpreted as more power is fed back than consumed.
 
See the data below.
 
I believe the csv files are now good enough to provide the needed COP (mean) calculations/estimateions.
 
Praise the Almighty.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2012, 06:09:08 PM »
The Input and Output xls has been updated with analysis.
 
The COP from average is 2.2.
 
The Output Power average value is negative.  That implies feedback is higher than supplied power.
 
In addition, both the positive and negative areas of the Power Curve are much higher than those of Input.  This implies that we must examine such values when we deal with Standing Waves or similar.
 
More details will be available at overunity.com under the ltseung888 bench.
 
Overunity or Lead-out energy is confirmed by such results.

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2012, 06:09:08 PM »
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Offline aaron5120

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2012, 03:04:54 AM »
Dr. Tseung,
Please confirm the model number of your scopes is ADS1102, 100MHZ bandwidth. Then the probes to be used are P6100 100MHz, x1x10 passive probes. Thanks.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2012, 05:10:06 AM »
Dr. Tseung,
Please confirm the model number of your scopes is ADS1102, 100MHZ bandwidth. Then the probes to be used are P6100 100MHz, x1x10 passive probes. Thanks.

Confirmed.

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2012, 05:10:06 AM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2012, 03:53:38 PM »
Here is a close up shot of the prototype tested on Jan 8 that produced a COP of -2.2.
 
It was basically a Joule Thief Circuit with two secondary windings.  The number of turns was selected to completely surround the toroid.  The actual diameter and characteristics of the toroid did not make much difference.  In the experiment on Jan 8, we aimed for maximum sensitivity and any result with COP > 1 was acceptable. 
 
The COP was calculated from the average of the Output Power divided by the Input Power.  This is the so called true COP.
 
The actual of -2.2 was obtained.  The negative sign came from the Average Output Power.  There can be different interpretations of the negative sign.  One was - more feedback than supplied power. 
 
The additional calculation in the ADS00057 and ADS00058 files focused on the positive and negative values separately.  Such calculations highlight the effect of the "standing wave".  In the particular experiment, the result was not a good standing wave and the COP value was low.  This will be improved in the coming experiments.
 
Please go to overunityresearch.com, under the ltseung888 thread for update and details.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 03:00:11 AM »
Experiment on Jan 11a
 
The air coil toroid was used.  We introduced unecessary wires.  Here is the result.
 
The result should be compared with shortening the wires to the minimum. in the next post.

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 03:00:11 AM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2012, 03:02:45 AM »
Experiment of Jan 11b
 
The wires were reduced to the minimum length.

Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2012, 11:00:08 PM »
Dear Verpies,
 
I have updated ADS00067 and ADS00070 to include the positive and negative area only calculations.
Such calculation is important to understand the possible "standing wave" effect.
Even though the waveform might not be a standing wave, the positive and negative area by themselves are significant.
 
Using only the average or the mean is not sufficient.
 
Any comments?

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2012, 11:00:08 PM »
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Offline ltseung888

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2012, 02:04:58 AM »
A possible application of the FLEET technology.
 
The Company in the Far East has mastered the FLEET technology.  They have FLEET prototypes with COP > 20. 
 
They already give out promotional LED hats without the FLEET technology. 
 
Can they make the LED hat last much longer without changing batteries?
 
The Divine Wine is being bottled.

Offline Montec

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Re: standing wave coil frequency
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2012, 07:50:54 PM »
Hello all
Here is an equation for a three coil phase-velocity (Vp) matched air transformer.
   D1 = Diameter (at center-line of coil) of coil 1
   D2 = Diameter of coil 2
   D3 = Diameter of coil 3
   G1 = Gage (diameter of wire and insulation) of wire in D1
   G2 = Gage of wire in D2
   G3 = Gage of wire in D3

    D1/G1 = D2/G2 = D3/G3 = (G3 + 2*G2 + G1)/(G3 - G1) where G3 > G2 > G1. 

(G3 - G1) influences the resultant coil diameters so the closer G1 is to G3 the larger the resultant coil will be. (G3 + 2*G2 + G1) is a distance along a section of the coils diameter and (G3 - G1) is the change in pitch (gage) for said section.

The above equation assumes a tightly wound construction.

:)

   

 

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