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Author Topic: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.  (Read 18226 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 01:58:01 PM »
Sorry guys but once you close the loop, you end up with a single magnetic field. As a matter of fact, the closer you get to closing the loop, you will find that you lose more and more of the effect you are hoping for.

 With magnets, you have to have a unbalanced equation which I have found to be impossible to produce unless a outside power source is introduced. The problem with using the outside source is that the movement created will not create enough of the outside sources energy to continue the movement by it's self. Some have claimed to have but none have been proven to work.
I would say this is true for a uniform donut magnet. In my example, there will be surfaces which will interact with eachother with magnetic fields which is not pure radial to the round magnets. Therfor the magnetic interaction will be very different compared to a uniform and radially aligned magnetic field.

In any rational thinking, and science, a magnet is conservative, an cannot do work without external input. This is true. My point is to use my (prelimenary) knowledge about magnetic behaviour, and use this to come up with ideas on how to alter the magnetic properties without violate the "conservativism" in the total magnetic field. Let me explane this by altering the flux path in a way so the magnet behaviour differ in two different spaces. No voalation of the conservative magnetic field, but using a magnetic material to assist alignment of the magnetic field in the way I want. When aligned as a pseudo solid magnet bar, it will be able to stay conservative with respect to the new parallell field path, due to the pseudo solid alignment itself. Therfor it will no longer require force to escape the magnetic material. All the magnets as aligned in such a way, will still be forced apart angulary to the movement, but we do not allow them to separate mechanicly untill we let them. Right at this point of separation, there is what I hope the gain will hide, and be released on demand to force movement.

Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 01:58:01 PM »

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2011, 12:04:16 PM »
Hello,

I have done some simulations with round magnets. The simulation are as far as I can understand an equivalent to what we can expect to happen in a design as shown in my first post. The triangle magnets are however replaced with round ones.

I was afraid the forces would act angular or radial to the movement of the magnets. That does not happen. So the forces will push the magnet array in a direction which will finally make a running system. There is no counterforce that will act in opposite direction - only forward force.

This simulation is just a simulation, and it is not made in 3D. The results however are interesting enough to investigate further in a practical model. I just have to figure out how to build it.

I have lots of small disc magnets I want to glue on a two CDs. This will be a pure rotary motor, and not as shown in my initial post. I have no other options than trying this first. It will look more like my last tooth-gear design. The round magnets are spaced so they can mesh into eachother to make a pseudo solid magnet where they exit the shield.

With small kids and a wife, I cannot expect to finish this build in a while, but I will do my best to finish one.

Vidar

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 01:01:46 PM »
You might want to check out Helmut Goebkes device:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3979.0

Also, something called the Bowman motor.

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 01:01:46 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2011, 01:17:31 PM »
I have done experiments with such design, and also simulated on it. Where it is an attraction zone, this zone will be the area of equilibrium. Magnets does not want to enter a repelling area, nor escape from an attraction zone.

A pseudo solid magnet are neutral in its direction of movement, and feels no attraction or repulsion. Therfor it is important to let the magnetic field be distributed only angular to its direction of movement in order to escape the attraction zone at the end of the shield.

Helmuts design have several magnets spaced apart. This space is a problem because the magnets can "look ahead" and "look behind" to what is repelling or attracive areas. The magnets aligned as pseudo solid will not be able to "see" anything but what is on the left and right side of them, and therfor they will not be able to feel attraction or repulsion in the direction of movement. A pseudo solid alignment is, as far as I can see, the only way to enter a possible repelling area without being counterforced.

Vidar

Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 09:06:39 AM »
If your are going to force magnets into repulsion, then you must use grade SH or better.
Regular 80 degree neos will get depleted rather quickly when forced into repel.
But this will not happen with grade SH or better. They are extremely resistant to demagnetization.

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 09:06:39 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2011, 03:20:36 PM »
If your are going to force magnets into repulsion, then you must use grade SH or better.
Regular 80 degree neos will get depleted rather quickly when forced into repel.
But this will not happen with grade SH or better. They are extremely resistant to demagnetization.
You have an important point. However, the magnets will not demagnetize when they are aligned with S N vertically on axis, and placed side by side (See my illustarions earlier in this thread). This alignment will only extend the size of the magnet when they are placed tight together, and not cancel out magnetism..

Also, the attraction mode can also be used, but that will reverse rotation (Well, if it works in repelling mode).

Vidar

Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 03:27:18 PM »
So when do you expect to have an early prototype up running?
Or perhaps part of the design showing if the idea is valid enough for a complete build?

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2011, 03:27:18 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2011, 04:09:46 PM »
So when do you expect to have an early prototype up running?
Or perhaps part of the design showing if the idea is valid enough for a complete build?
Hmmm, I must admit that it is quite temting to try building one. I have a bunch of small square ferrite magnets. They are not very strong, but very cheap, and probably good enough for a prototype. Weak magnets are also easier to handle - especially with respect to the magnetic shielding. A bunch of N50 neomagnets would probably make everything collaps ;D.

I will see what I can use to build a prototype, but don't hold your breath. I have also been discussing with Butch several possible ways to use the pseudo solid concept in other fashions to simplify the final design as much as possible. Butch have the guts to try everything, so it is interesting to see his new videos and what he is capable of testing and build.

Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 10:30:04 AM »
Low-Q
This is an excellent design! It seems it may avoid all the usual entry and exit problems.
This should still work even if simple cylinder magnets were used by interlacing them between each other as they zip together. The possible issue could be an increased draw to the iron because of the tighter field of the interlaced magnets. (need to test this)
Just want to comment the drag issue.

Cylindrical magnets will not create a uniform bar when aligned as pseudo solid. This wil increase the influence with the shield when the magnets exit. However, the main consept is to let the majority of flux to be distributed angular to the movement when they exit the shield.

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 10:30:04 AM »
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Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 12:54:41 PM »
Try this place for custom made magnets. I've only had positive experiences when dealing with them.
http://www.magnesy.eu/magnesy_stale-g0-230.html
Making custom shapes should be pretty cheap using ferrite magnets.

Send them an accurate drawing and quantity of your needs and they will quote you a price for free.
magnesy@magnesy.pl

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 04:48:08 PM »
Try this place for custom made magnets. I've only had positive experiences when dealing with them.
http://www.magnesy.eu/magnesy_stale-g0-230.html
Making custom shapes should be pretty cheap using ferrite magnets.

Send them an accurate drawing and quantity of your needs and they will quote you a price for free.
magnesy@magnesy.pl
Thanks. I will try them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 04:48:08 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, 12:18:20 PM »
There is so many ideas to post...

I made a few changes in the initial design.

I am not sure how this will work, but instead of using shields of iron, why don't use shields made of magnets? The two rotor magnets on the left side grab the magnetic field from the triangle magnets so they can mechanicly align as a pseudo solid magnet.

The two rotor magnets on the right side push the magnetic field outwards and force magnetism from each triangle magnets into powerful repulsion mode.

Vidar

 

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