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Author Topic: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.  (Read 18200 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« on: February 22, 2011, 10:24:06 PM »
Hi,

I have attached a drawing, free of use. I cannot imagine how the forces are distributed, but at the first look, it looks like a working magnet motor.

The questions I cannot answer are how forces A, B, C, and D, are, and what energy (force * distance) they are capable of taking and giving in a closed loop.

I would say that force A and B are zero - which means it does not take energy to exit or enter the magnetic shield. Force C are definetly positive because the magnets are able to escape from eachother.

What about force D?

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline e2matrix

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 04:51:48 AM »
I may not be clear on what you have here but from what I see it does not appear it would move at all.  What it appears you have setup is magnets N on top or facing view and S on bottom or vice versa as it is not relevant but what I see is they are all in repel mode?  Which means the ones exiting will have some push but no more than the ones trying to enter the gate. 

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 12:17:56 PM »
I may not be clear on what you have here but from what I see it does not appear it would move at all.  What it appears you have setup is magnets N on top or facing view and S on bottom or vice versa as it is not relevant but what I see is they are all in repel mode?  Which means the ones exiting will have some push but no more than the ones trying to enter the gate.
They are all in repel mode per configuration. The idea, however, is to use a magnetic guide to guide the repelling flux away from repelling mode when the magnets are suppose to "zip" together on the left side - like a zipper - so there is less energy required to zip the magnets together, than the energy (hopefully) gained when the separate in open air.
Once the magnets are aligned as a pseudo solid magnet bar inside the magnetic guide/shield, the idea is then to separate them where there is no shield, so they repel eachother. The repelling forces which is held back by the guides, are acting angular to the movement, and will not contribute to neither accelerate or stop the motion.

Just an idea.

Vidar

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 12:17:56 PM »
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Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 12:38:24 PM »
What's up Low-Q.

You used to be very sceptic of magnetic motors.
Always 100% convinced they could never work as magnetism is absolutely conservative!

Now you spit out new magmotor ideas like tommy gun bullets.....
Yet you know it wont work!

Why this change in behavior?
Did someone else take over your nickname....or what?

Offline broli

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 01:11:22 PM »
It takes one well designed build to prove all these derivatives.

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 01:11:22 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 06:16:29 PM »
Low-Q
This is an excellent design! It seems it may avoid all the usual entry and exit problems.
This should still work even if simple cylinder magnets were used by interlacing them between each other as they zip together. The possible issue could be an increased draw to the iron because of the tighter field of the interlaced magnets. (need to test this)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 12:39:10 PM »
What's up Low-Q.

You used to be very sceptic of magnetic motors.
Always 100% convinced they could never work as magnetism is absolutely conservative!

Now you spit out new magmotor ideas like tommy gun bullets.....
Yet you know it wont work!

Why this change in behavior?
Did someone else take over your nickname....or what?
What's up? Well, I will allways try, even if everyone tells me, or experiments this far tells me, that magnet motors are conservative, and will not work. I just try to find a design I cannot fully understand why it will not work. I also like to contribute with ideas which might be helpful to learn magnetic behaviour uder various conditions. And maybe some day I will be prooved wrong about how conservative magnets REALLY are, and under what conditions this it true - and not true. There is no identity theft here, no, it's me - Low-Q (Vidar) - full of surprises :)

More ideas to come ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 12:39:10 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 01:53:20 PM »
Low-Q
This is an excellent design! It seems it may avoid all the usual entry and exit problems.
This should still work even if simple cylinder magnets were used by interlacing them between each other as they zip together. The possible issue could be an increased draw to the iron because of the tighter field of the interlaced magnets. (need to test this)
From my point of view this motor will work beyond doubt, because I cannot see the break here. However, from the magnets point of view, it might be another story...
Cylinder magnets should do. I made triangle magnets so they could fit better as a pseudo solid bar, and at the same time was able to separate easily.

Vidar

Offline FatChance!!!

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »
However, from the magnets point of view, it might be another story...

Hehehehe!!!  Good reply... ;D ;D ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 03:47:18 PM »
Hehehehe!!!  Good reply... ;D ;D ;D
It would be so easy, just asking a magnet what it is capable of, what it cannot do etc. So we have to ask a magnet with experience, a really old magnet. I bet they are laughing about us idiots trying to understand them :)

Offline Low-Q

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New. Simplified "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 06:25:57 PM »
I made a very simplified design of the zipper-motor. The picture tells the story.
Any input are welcome :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

New. Simplified "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 06:25:57 PM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 01:46:51 AM »
 Sorry guys but once you close the loop, you end up with a single magnetic field. As a matter of fact, the closer you get to closing the loop, you will find that you lose more and more of the effect you are hoping for.

 With magnets, you have to have a unbalanced equation which I have found to be impossible to produce unless a outside power source is introduced. The problem with using the outside source is that the movement created will not create enough of the outside sources energy to continue the movement by it's self. Some have claimed to have but none have been proven to work.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 03:24:18 AM »
Sorry guys but once you close the loop, you end up with a single magnetic field. As a matter of fact, the closer you get to closing the loop, you will find that you lose more and more of the effect you are hoping for.

 With magnets, you have to have a unbalanced equation which I have found to be impossible to produce unless a outside power source is introduced. The problem with using the outside source is that the movement created will not create enough of the outside sources energy to continue the movement by it's self. Some have claimed to have but none have been proven to work.

This motor uses an outside movement source with an unbalanced equation.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obOezFhbO9s  It starts and runs quite well.

Offline lumen

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 04:25:55 AM »
Vidar,
I wonder if the gear teeth have any effect on the theory of operation. Consider if the rings you show were simply ring magnets, would the effect not be the same?

I have been testing the simulation below for any gain in the idea of magnets entering while separated, then exiting in a single row and as we know, magnets close together cause a stronger pull that may cancel any perceived gain. The shape of the magnets may be important as thinner magnets exiting in single file may not increase in pull when exiting.
The simulation takes several hours to run for every position so it will take some time. I have also reduced the idea into a simpler setup to measure the working principal and it seems to follow something close to this when using cylinder magnets.
Pull in of single spaced magnets is X1
Pull of stacked magnets on exit is X1.5
Gain of magnets separating is about X2
The simulation seems to indicate the gain (X3) could be about two times the losses (X1.5).

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnet motor idea. "zipper" magnetmotor.
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 01:18:01 PM »
@lumen: Thanks for sharing your thaughts. Your drawing also proves it is quite simple to test this with "scrapyard" items and a few small magnets.

What we already know is that equal poles repel. That said, in the presence of a magnetic material, it will require less force to push equal poles together as proved by simulations and by pracical experiments. Because the magnetic field finds an easier path to close its own magnetism.

Further, the magnetic field will go from being spread equally in all direction for each magnet, into be aligned parallell, and angular to the movement direction as the magnets are being aligned as a pseudo solid magnet bar. Parallell magnetic fields which is angular to a magnetic object will not be attracted to it and would therfor escape the shield without drag. So it is VERY important that the array of magnets are pseudo solid - at least in the moment the magnets escapes the shield.

After a given distance from the magnetic material, the pseudo solid magnet bar will be forced to separate into descrete magnetic elements because the field wants to distribute the field in all directions again. So as long a magnet see the opportunity to escape from another magnet, it will do so, and force movement.

The question I have asked myself recently is whether or not the magnetic repulsion are radially to the magnet path when it turns in a circle, in order to repeat the cycle and close the mechanical loop.
If the force are radial, there will be no force to start rotation or movement, because a radial force will always be angular to the tangent of the circular path.

So I think it is at least worth trying to simulate this with "3D magnetic software" in order to come closer to the truth.

Vidar

 

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