Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 84250
  • *Latest: Aslet21

  • *Total Posts: 898047
  • *Total Topics: 15837
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 18
  • *Total: 20

Author Topic: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011  (Read 638663 times)

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2011, 03:46:23 PM »
The instruments God would not argue against, have never been the issue Rose.

The perfect measuring instrument is only as good as the hands that use it.

.99

Poynty

Let me know when you discover an error in the USE of our DSO's.  Also.  Let me know when you're ready to talk about the results and not the assumed errors.  Then I'll be happy to engage with you fully.  Until then - I'm afraid you're tarnished with the same bias that pollutes your members on your forum.  Their criticisms and concerns are laughably immoderate and utterly irrelevant.  And they're voiced in the desperate hope that they can yet quieten all this escalating interest.  We are talking here about results that have been demonstrated and witnessed.  And I took NO ACTIVE PART in that demonstration.   

And now you accuse them of not being able to find their way around a DSO?  Are you projecting your own inabilities here?

Rosemary

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2011, 04:04:10 PM »
Hello evolvingape

Thanks for the comprehensive quote from my blog.  Delighted that it also served to amuse you.  Personally I've always enjoyed a good laugh.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Offline powercat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2011, 04:13:55 PM »
 ;D Hi Rosie
good to see you are still fighting your corner, any news on the promised video ?
Good luck as always
cat

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2011, 04:13:55 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2011, 04:28:37 PM »
;D Hi Rosie
good to see you are still fighting your corner, any news on the promised video ?
Good luck as always
cat

Cat,  always a pleasure.  Yes.  We're still downloading.  It was done in high def and the files are HUGE.  Also, it has to be labelled and edited which I can't do.  It's all adding to the delays.  But sit tight.  Maybe finished by Friday.

Kindest regards,
Rosie

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2011, 08:22:08 PM »
Guys,  it's on my mind and I hope you'll get this.

The fact is that the spike that is generated from BEMF is well known.  According to mainstream it's the energy that is stored in the circuit materials as a result of the input of energy from a supply source.  Our circuits are designed that this voltage can induce a current flow with a counter clockwise path through the Zener diode.  What we found was that the sum of the energy that was returned from the circuit and the energy dissipated at the resistor also exceeded the amount of energy first supplied by the source.  In effect, the counter clockwise path through the battery supply also served to recharge it - thereby taking our co-efficient of performance to a value greater than 1.  This was variously hotly contended - denied or replicated.  Take your pick.  They all resulted and they generated varying degrees of indifference - denial and abuse.  Most attempts at explaining this simple event was cloaked and hidden in utter obscurity.  And, predictably, notwithstanding some scholarly presentation of the results - the entire event faded from view.

Then despite some serious allegations against my rights to progress this at all - I was invited to develop this in a CPUT laboratory.  The thinking was this.  We'd start with a conventional typical element - resistor  and then systematically vary the resistor to realise the optimised value of the inductance - then thinking that this would need to be increased.  So.  We start of with minimal inductance and work upwards.  The surprise was to find that this element actually gave better results than any we'd previously tested.  The trick, apparently, was to reduce and not increase the inductance.  That was the first surprise.  We could generate a significant 100 degrees C with - surprise, surprise, a zero discharge of energy from the supply.

Also interesting was that this result was NOT frequency dependent.  But, invariably, the circuit would generate it's own resonating frequency - at a little over 50% on - which, in line with previous findings - also overrode the duty cycle setting.  The difference was this.  Before we had a result that invariably 'cost' the battery - albeit only a small fraction.  This time there was clear evidence that the battery was now the happy beneficiary of more energy than was first measured to be supplied.

However, there was still no clear evidence of what exactly was going on.  Also apparent was that while the technology was scalable - at approximately a 20 degree rise for every battery added - there was an upper limit determined by the amperage that the zener could manage.  So.  The next test was to up the ante by putting those MOSFETs in parallel.  I went for the full monty - at about 30 amps - thinking that this would still keep the battery voltage in line with the DSO's voltage tolerances.  That was when I recorded our 'first surprise' in my blog.  What was immediately apparent was there was an antiphase relationship of voltage on the source and ground rail - that spoke volumes.  When the drain voltage peaked - the source voltage was at it's lowest.  And when the drain voltage 'troughed' the source voltage was at its highest.  In effect, the returning energy trumped the output - every time - and all the way through each cycle.  Also.  The resonance - that was always restricted to a long spike and some ringing - now 'flattened out' and for a brief period gave a resonating waveform where there was clear early indications of absolute re-inforcement at each phase and stage.  But also apparent was that this resonance actually only occured when the signal at the gate defaulted to negative.  In effect - it was a negative triggering - and that's where the benefit had been hiding. 

Now.  If you think about it.  Under usual circumstances, the initial spike that then generates the back EMF - occurs at the moment that the switch applies a positive signal at the gate and when the circuit is, effectively closed.  But this then rings flat and out and does not appear again until the next cycle.  What was now evident was that the discharge of current from this spike has only one path to discharge - through a Zener diode that can barely tolerate 6 amps.  So what does it do if there is more than 6 amps worth of potential difference in that voltage spike?  It can only discharge this as heat over the sundry components including that poor punished diode.  Now.  With a wider path established through those MOSFET's and their zeners - all in parallel - then the current flow is enabled to the full potential of that voltage spike. 

But.  And here's the thing.  The value of that stored potential difference - that was first established by the flow of current from the battery supply - is now developed on the circuit from the collapsed voltage at the spike.  This generates a positive potential difference or a potential 'clockwise' flow of current from the circuit material.  And there is no resitriction to the flow of energy from the battery as, now, the signal at the gate is negative.  A negative will not repel a positive.  And THERE is the benefit.  Both negative and positive voltages now have a path to discharge their voltage - in either a clockwise or an anticlockwise direction to an extent or at a value that is commensurate - not with the initial discharge from the supply - but with the potentials in the circuit material itself.  What is intriguing is this.  There are two entirely different voltages - resulting in two entirely different current flow paths - and they never vary - the one from the other - in their periodicity.  It's as steady as a heart beat.  And always - I have never seen this vary - there is more energy in the anti clockwise direction than the clockwise.  And - in either direction - the beneficiary is to the heat on the resistor and to the retained charged condition of the battery supply.

And this is how subtle is the tuning.  It can be tuned to retain the 'off' time to that period that is precisely as long as is required to ensure that the advantage is to the battery.  Then.  One can increase the offset so that current is actually discharged from the battery during that short 'on' time.  The spike is then HUGE.  And the subsequent ringing - or resonance rather -  triggered during the 'off[ time is also then correspondingly increased.  Now we have a condition where the energy dissipated at the resistor is greater than is allowed under conventional power delivery.  It's acting with all the advantage of a booster converter.  And yet ther is no discharge from the supply.  That's where this technology goes from adequate to super efficient.

Which brings me back to the point of this post with apologies for its length.  I feel I'm testing all kinds of tolerances here.  That oscillation - that resonance - is adjustable to whatever value is required to ensure that there is a zero discharge from the supply.  And the beauty of those wonderful DSOs is that they enable that fine tuning.  The math function does an immediate calculation of the instantaneous voltage.  And when this crosses into the negative value then one knows that the best tuning has been reached.  I am not sure how this can be managed without that sophisticated measuring instrument.  It's possibly going to be problematic. 

But try it out for yourselves.  If and where you use one MOSFET try two - or more.  And set the gate signal to negative to enable that closed path condition in both directions.  You will see the benefit for yourselves.  It's so much more reliable than our previous tests.   And the results are also that much more conclusive.  I am well aware of the fact that my presentations are usually met with a parade of those who know better and see some need to prove this wrong.  It is not wrong.  And it's too important to second guess.   

Rosemary
 :)

edited  Sorry for the typos.  My eyes just not good enough to edit it out tonight.  I'll try tomorrow.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 08:50:46 PM by Rosemary Ainslie »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2011, 08:22:08 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline markdansie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2011, 10:35:13 PM »
so have you had any thoughts how you can close loop this and provide any usable energy?
PS why not use Caps rather than Batteries
Mark

Offline infringer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
    • mopowah
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2011, 03:13:52 AM »
Mark,

Would this not make a super efficient water heater ?

Welding or soldering electronics ?

How about very cheap electric heat that could run off of stored solar power?

I could go on but this does need more looking into from a COE standpoint if this works even remotely close to what is proposed to it could mean a lot for the world.

Is free energy the only objective "Overunity" well while the name says that I tend to think a little outside of the box I'll tell you if you could do things at a lesser and lesser cost it makes renewable energy more likely to be exploited and used which in turn decreases the grip of big oil, and makes everyone's life easier until that pie in the sky of OU is discovered.

These are all stepping stones .... Hell why not try it you may like the results.

I would try it myself if I had every component on hand or knew some more specifics but I see a lot of uses for a closed loop if it works as proposed or even close to it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2011, 03:13:52 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2011, 05:12:33 AM »
Hello Mark - and Infringer.  It is a closed loop - already.  But infringer, you're spot on.  I see a single solar panel as desirable as it would supply a stored energy that could trickle charge to the batteries.  I think that a high voltage source also needs to be stable at a given value notwithstanding the roller coaster voltage values when it gets into oscillation mode.  We tested this on batteries with huge capacities.  And it would be nice to know that we could use something a little more modest.  I've not tried this on anything other than the batteries disclosed in the report.

Now.  The next point - which may - I hope - bend your minds.  I referenced this simple fact.  During the period when the gate signal is negative - is the time that we induce this crazy oscillation.  This much is evident.  The current path is first anticlockwise - indicating that it comes from the circuit to the supply source.  Then.  The current path reverses and goes from the battery to the the circuit.  How is it that there is no resitriction to the flow of this current from the battery?  I have not heard anyone ask this.  The assumption is made that the flow from the supply can only happen when the gate is positive.  Surely?  What I'm hoping is that those that are more insightful here - will see what I'm referencing.  Current may, indeed, have properties of charge. 

I'll try this again.  The applied signal at the gate is positive.  It allows a kind of bridge to the applied voltage from the battery supply that the current can flow from the supply - through the circuit and back to the negative terminal.  We all know that.  Now we apply a negative signal at the same point.  And this still allows the unrestricted flow of current from the battery supply through the circuit.  Not only that but the flow of that current is really strong.  That's the point - I think - where this circuit gets interesting.  To my way of seeing this - if the current from the battery supply has a distinctly 'positive' charge - evidenced in a clockwise directional flow - then there is, self-evidently - nothing at the gate to prevent its flow when the gate signal reverses to negative.  And this is the point where I suspect there may yet be some consessions to the concept of current having two distinct charge potentials.  If so.  Then - with apologies for all these 'ifs' - if current flow comprises electrons - then it could NEVER 'swap' directions and charges as an electron is a monopole.  An electron would either be repelled or attracted at the 'gate'.  Here we have a condition where the charge is not restricted - at all.  On the contrary.  Therefore is there the proposal that this may be proof that our current - whatever else it is - is NOT the flow of electrons.  Wrap your minds around this possibility and I assure you that you'll then need to talk 'unkown energy supply sources' or 'aether energy' or dark energy.  I do hope you'll see the point here. 

You guys have been looking for the 'secret' to all that abundant energies.  I think on a deep but subliminal level we all know it's out there.  Compulsively interesting.  But ever elusive.  But I also think that you expect it to announce itself with some kind of definitive 'tan tan tara'.  I'm reasonably satisfied that it has never been considered as the properties of that well known electromagnetic interaction.  All have presumed that this is based on the flow or movement of electrons.  Never proven - but always assumed.  What is here suggested is that it's in the actual material of charge which has NOTHING to do with the atoms.  It's a force field that operates outside the atom.  And - if this is so, then all we need to do is use all that current potential way more efficiently.  And the best way to do this is to let that current 'just do it's thing'. 

So.  It's rather prosaic in its fundamentals.  Just the well known electromagnetic interaction.  Yet it's strangely and entirely different - in its actual fundamental constructs.  That, I hope, is what this oscillation proves.  Please note, Infringer.  That crazy oscillation only needs some small inductive value on the circuit materials - and a continually applied negative charge at the gate - and the indications are that we have - dare I say it - PERPETUAL current flow.  That thing that is only, under known circumstances, enabled in REALLY cold conditions.  And what's really interesting - is that this puts paid to the idea that current flow will COST anything at all. 

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2011, 05:21:05 AM »
so have you had any thoughts how you can close loop this and provide any usable energy?
PS why not use Caps rather than Batteries
Mark

Mark - we have a booster converter type thing going on where the applied voltage can be greatly reduced to get precisely as much energy as is required.  We can cook the resistor at just about any value.  And the cost of this is zero loss of charge from the battery supply.  Are you serious?  Surely this is usable?

Rosemary

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2011, 05:21:05 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline TheCell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2011, 08:47:21 AM »
Hello

JR Hempel made an attempt to measure current in 2 ways:
1) Amps measured with clamp meter
2) Amps measured hot-wire ammeter
(http://www.practicalphysics.org/go/Experiment_698.html)

with 1) you measure both cold and normal current flow
with 2) you measure only current flow (this flow that causes heat)
Adjust them both to show the same value when applied to a normal power supply.
IMHO 2) measures RMS , if so ,choose a clamp meter that also does.

If there are differences between the 2 measuring methods you are dealing with cold current.

Offline markdansie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1471
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2011, 09:01:43 AM »
@Infinger and Rosemary
yes I can see the device as is is very usefull even as a heat generator. Just a matter of engineering and scaling for different applications.
However and this is me being picky pain in but, i would much prefer to see a cap used as power source or at least some credible way to measure the battery (volts does not cut it)
That's my only beef at this stage and that why i get paid the big bucks sometimes
If you noted my past posts I have always encouraged you or given some unsolicited advice.
mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2011, 09:01:43 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2011, 10:24:40 AM »
Hello

JR Hempel made an attempt to measure current in 2 ways:
1) Amps measured with clamp meter
2) Amps measured hot-wire ammeter
(http://www.practicalphysics.org/go/Experiment_698.html)

with 1) you measure both cold and normal current flow
with 2) you measure only current flow (this flow that causes heat)
Adjust them both to show the same value when applied to a normal power supply.
IMHO 2) measures RMS , if so ,choose a clamp meter that also does.

If there are differences between the 2 measuring methods you are dealing with cold current.
I'm not sure which 'THE CELL' has posted here.  I do not know what cold current is.  It's one of those vague terms that somehow has crept into esoteric science.  We do not measure with any ammeters at all.  We infer the current flow from the voltage measured across the resistors.  But thanks for the advice in any event.  I think we need to apply classical protocols or we'll never cut it with mainstream.

And again, Mark - I really need you to get this.  I do not care AT ALL what supply is being used.  It's the theoretical implications of the measurements and the consequent waveform that is of interest.  And this is NOT, absolutey not, restricted to a battery supply.  Why do you guys keep going on about this.  Think power source.  Think plugs.  It is NOT REQUIRED that this is only supplied by a battery.  Nor would the replacement of the batteries with caps change anything at all whether or not it worked.  It's irrelevant.  We are not discussing the electrolytic condition of the batteries.  We're only talking about the applied energy to a circuit and some means of optimising the output from that supply.  That's it.  The numbers stack.  If they're wrong - then strangely, they seem to be giving exploitable benefits notwithstanding.  And no-one has faulted the measurements nor the protocols.   

Anyway.  Hope you get this.
Rosemary

Offline neptune

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1127
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2011, 11:56:16 AM »
The advantage of being a numbskull like me is that I get to ask questions that my learned friends would not dare . I have never yet used Mosfets . I understand that a positive voltage has to be applied to the gate to switch the mosfet on and allow current to flow from drain to source . Looking at data on  the net I deduce it needs about 7.5 volts positive on the gate to fully switch on . Am I right? . The gate is driven by the 555 timer which has a square wave output . Question . If the 555 is driven by a12 volt supply . the output switches between zero and a positive voltage Question WHAT IS THAT VOLTAGE? Or does it switch between a pos voltage and a neg voltage . If it does NOT then how can the gate ever become negative ? Question . If we set up the circuit and tune it , why can we not then just disconnect the 555 circuit and substitute a small battery to keep the gate negative ?
           Applications? too many to mention .Imagine a small portable heater . Hand crank a small generator to charge the caps , or plug into the car cigarette lighter for 30 seconds . I bet that would be useful in Japan right now or if youwere trapped in a car in a snowdrift , or as a night heater for truckers .Or for camping/ life off the grid . A few peltier cells to supply current for lighting . Could some one please answer my idiotic questions?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:20:46 PM by neptune »

Offline Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2011, 01:13:49 PM »
The advantage of being a numbskull like me is that I get to ask questions that my learned friends would not dare . I have never yet used Mosfets . I understand that a positive voltage has to be applied to the gate to switch the mosfet on and allow current to flow from drain to gate . Looking at data on  the net I deduce it needs about 7.5 volts positive on the gate to fully switch on . Am I right? . The gate is driven by the 555 timer which has a square wave output . Question . If the 555 is driven by a12 volt supply . the output switches between zero and a positive voltage Question WHAT IS THAT VOLTAGE? Or does it switch between a pos voltage and a neg voltage . If it does NOT then how can the gate ever become negative ? Question . If we set up the circuit and tune it , why can we not then just disconnect the 555 circuit and substitute a small battery to keep the gate negative ?
           Applications? too many to mention .Imagine a small portable heater . Hand crank a small generator to charge the caps , or plug into the car cigarette lighter for 30 seconds . I bet that would be useful in Japan right now or if youwere trapped in a car in a snowdrift , or as a night heater for truckers .Or for camping/ life off the grid . A few peltier cells to supply current for lighting . Could some one please answer my idiotic questions?

Why should anybody care to answer your questions since you never bother to post feedback? I answered your question in the other thread but you never told me if my answer made you understand what you were asking me or there still are hanaging ends.

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2011, 01:37:50 PM »
The advantage of being a numbskull like me is that I get to ask questions that my learned friends would not dare . I have never yet used Mosfets . I understand that a positive voltage has to be applied to the gate to switch the mosfet on and allow current to flow from drain to gate . Looking at data on  the net I deduce it needs about 7.5 volts positive on the gate to fully switch on . Am I right? . The gate is driven by the 555 timer which has a square wave output . Question . If the 555 is driven by a12 volt supply . the output switches between zero and a positive voltage Question WHAT IS THAT VOLTAGE? Or does it switch between a pos voltage and a neg voltage . If it does NOT then how can the gate ever become negative ? Question . If we set up the circuit and tune it , why can we not then just disconnect the 555 circuit and substitute a small battery to keep the gate negative ?
           Applications? too many to mention .Imagine a small portable heater . Hand crank a small generator to charge the caps , or plug into the car cigarette lighter for 30 seconds . I bet that would be useful in Japan right now or if youwere trapped in a car in a snowdrift , or as a night heater for truckers .Or for camping/ life off the grid . A few peltier cells to supply current for lighting . Could some one please answer my idiotic questions?

Hi Neptune.  We used a functions generator to drive the FETs.  But I've just checked.  It's very doable to get the negative signal to the gate with a 555.  You'll need to get someone else to show you how.  I have no idea how its done.

Your applications are good.  I actually think it would take between 72 and 96 volts from a battery supply to get your hot water cylinders off grid.  That may be considered as well.

Rosemary

 

OneLink