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Author Topic: Shorting coil gives back more power  (Read 352502 times)

Offline Tito L. Oracion

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #480 on: June 08, 2011, 09:48:22 AM »
Hi penno64


I think I have an idea.. If you may sir, Why not use the driving transistor as shorting device? How? Have you seen how the HOT of TV/Monitor works?

ya that's a brilliant idea!!!  ;D

KABAYAN!!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #480 on: June 08, 2011, 09:48:22 AM »

Offline DimaWari

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #481 on: June 08, 2011, 11:52:37 AM »
Thank You Sir  ;D almost done na po sa muller dynamo.. Hope it will run..  ;D

Offline Drak

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #482 on: June 25, 2011, 11:56:18 PM »
Ok, I'm playing the coil shorting game. I've got the avr shorting the coils at the peaks of each wave. Its not slowing the rotor down at all with or without the buffer caps hooked up. It does VERY slightly slow the rotor down when I start applying the shorts, but only noticeable with a meter. Caps with small uf are charged instantly. Now I just need to flip a logic 1 (+5v) to a logic 0 through a circuit to try and grab that charge and send it to a load.
 

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #482 on: June 25, 2011, 11:56:18 PM »
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Offline Drak

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #483 on: June 26, 2011, 02:21:26 AM »
I got that working, but the output to load is next to nothing... oh well.

Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #484 on: June 26, 2011, 02:00:30 PM »
I got that working, but the output to load is next to nothing... oh well.

The reasons would be clear if you would look the current graph...

- when you short current starts to flow
- inductive reactance resists current flow
- by the time you unshort only very minute current had time to build up
- backspike will be HV but it will also contain only minute amount of energy

I have not yet found the way sneak around these problems with gain over conventional generation. Has anyone?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #484 on: June 26, 2011, 02:00:30 PM »
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Offline electr0n

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #485 on: June 27, 2011, 05:49:03 AM »
@Drak
looks good, very similar to my experiment except im using a reed to pulse the load on the coil, one thing im trying at the moment and may be better with your setup is..
have the generator coil pulsed as your doing allready, but try a bifilar coil and use the 2nd winding to collect the bemf from the 1st winding :)
so you can adjust the load on the 1st winding to give best bemf on the 2nd winding (without too much rpm drop).
Im winding a bifilar at the mopment :)

i tested this by putting another coil ontop of the top stator gen coil and pulsed the stator coil, then collected the bemf from the "piggyback" coil, use a ferrite too. Output was only 1.5v at 1mA but it was loosly coupled in this arrangement, bifilar would be better as im in the process of.
Hope it sounds logical
Jim

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #486 on: June 29, 2011, 07:37:26 PM »
A Question to those that work with microwave oven fan coils.
I have one where the coil is on a rectangular core and i see no easy
way to separate it from that core without damaging it.
Maybe certain ovens have different coils?
Or do you need to use high mechanical force to somehow hammer it off?
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #486 on: June 29, 2011, 07:37:26 PM »
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Offline penno64

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #487 on: June 29, 2011, 08:30:42 PM »
Hi Xeno,

If you look closely, you will notice that the core for the coil is actually a seperate piece.

This fits together like a piece in a jigsaw.

I place the opposite end in a vice and find that by carefully compressing this opposite end, I
can remove the core/coil without damaging the entire unit.

Penno

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #488 on: July 01, 2011, 12:50:30 AM »
This the Parametric oscillator circuit! Short half the coil.

Hi penno64


I think I have an idea.. If you may sir, Why not use the driving transistor as shorting device? How? Have you seen how the HOT of TV/Monitor works?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #488 on: July 01, 2011, 12:50:30 AM »
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Offline technobear

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #489 on: July 03, 2011, 05:33:59 PM »
Hi!  8)

Having studied all the fine experimenting in this thread, I feel it is time to inject some theory as to what is actually occurring in these electromagnetic devices.

This is a bit long but bear with it. There is important information here.

If we pinch a guitar string with our fingers and pull it to one side, we put energy into the string which is stored as potential. When we gently stop pulling, this energy is gently returned to us as the string returns to its original position. Nothing further happens.

If, having pulled the guitar string to one side, we abruptly release it then it again returns to its starting position. However, in this instance, all the potential energy is converted into kinetic energy as the string acquires velocity. Newton tells us that things in motion keep on moving until something stops them. So it is with the guitar string. It keeps going past its rest position until all the kinetic energy is converted back to potential.

This conversion between potential and kinetic energy keeps going until all the energy has been radiated away into the surrounding medium, in this case as sound waves.

This cyclic conversion of energy is known as resonance and happens at a single frequency for any given system. Our guitar string has a single defined note.

So what does this have to do with electromagnetism?

The experiments show us that the magnetic field behaves like the stressing of an elastic medium, like pulling a guitar string to one side. When the cause of the stress is removed, the medium attempts to return to its pre-stressed state.

Experiments also show us that there is a definite link between the position of electrons and the degree of this magnetic stress. Whenever an electron moves, it causes this stress to manifest. When the electron stops moving, the medium settles into a new steady state and the stress is gone.

Experiments also show us that the reverse is true. When a part of the medium is subjected to a change in this stress, any electrons within it are forced to adopt new positions. They move until the stress stops changing and a new steady state is achieved.

So, we have an elastic medium, like a guitar string, and we have a means of stressing and destressing it by moving and then abruptly stopping electrons, like plucking a guitar string.

The experiments in this thread have also shown that when you "pluck" this magnetic medium by steadily applying a current to stress the medium and then rapidly removing that current, the medium resonates just like a guitar string.

Because of the relationship between magnetic stress and electron position, the resonance of the magnetic medium causes a corresponding resonance of electron position, a back EMF if you will.

The resonance continues until all the energy of the original impulse has dissipated as electromagnetic radiation, radio waves, or as heat if there is a circuit for electric current to flow in.

Shorting the coil is not strictly necessary. It is only necessary to cut the input at the sine wave peak and then restore it at the next zero crossing.

So far so good but there is no OU here. So where is it?

We can prolong the magnetic resonance by reducing the damping action of the electric circuit. If we connect a load to the circuit, the resonance will dissipate very quickly as the available energy is transferred to the load. If instead we turn the electric circuit into a resonant tank by addition of a capacitor, we can prolong the resonance. To do this, the resonant frequency of the LC tank circuit must match the resonant frequency of the magnetic medium. The latter can be worked out from the oscilloscope traces of the resonant ringing.

The resonance will also be enhanced if the “pluck” frequency is a sub-harmonic of the magnetic resonant  frequency.

Still no OU though. Back to that guitar…

A guitar has a resonant box behind the strings. This box resonates in sympathy with the strings. We can hear it. We can feel it. There is energy there. More energy than from the string alone. More energy than was imparted by our pluck.

If you put six identical strings on a guitar and tune them all to the same frequency, then just pluck one of them, they will all resonate. This does not diminish the resonance of the one we plucked, yet they are all now resonating. Where did all this extra energy come from?

Fortunately for us, we don’t need to be too bothered about where the energy comes from. We just have to accept that sympathetic resonance does occur and it is free energy.

So back to our electromagnetic circuits. How can we get ourselves some of this free energy in electrical form? What is required is to couple secondary circuits to the primary by sympathetic resonance. We do not try to draw power from the primary. This would “kill the dipole” as Tom Bearden might say. Instead we draw power only from the secondaries whilst ensuring that they remain tuned to the primary.

Remind you of anything? Well, a radio receiver for one, but also a device I saw once and am struggling to recall. It had a vertical coil in the centre with other vertical coils arranged around it some distance away (there is no inductive coupling required here). As I recall, this thing worked but was a pain to tune and keep tuned. With modern electronics, it should be relatively simple to tune a similar device and keep it tuned but it needn’t be too flash for a DIY proof of concept.

Sorry this was so long. It is of course only an empirical model but I think it’s a bit clearer than some of the nonsense about collapsing fields and currents that want to keep going and other such fanciful descriptions. Electrons only translate when they are pushed. Ordinarily the aether keeps them in place in their orbits using  this same magnetic stress. I’m sure the real interactions between electrons and the aether are somewhat more complex but I think we have enough to be going on here.

Hope this helps.


Offline wings

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #490 on: January 23, 2014, 11:34:58 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #490 on: January 23, 2014, 11:34:58 AM »
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Dave45

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #491 on: January 23, 2014, 01:57:55 PM »
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm#035
Tesla was shorting the coil peak to peak as well

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #492 on: January 17, 2016, 05:54:32 AM »
Was testing a bifilar air coil 26awg 27mh with coil shorting on my pulse motor setup.

Was testing with the reed switching on the departing side of the coil and the approaching side.

The coil when the reed is opened oscillates about 14.3khz and dies off.

See scope shots below.

On the departing side, when the reed opens, the oscillation begins + and rises to the cap voltage(-diode v) and dumps into the cap.

But on the approaching side, the oscillation begins in the - direction full swing then back up into the + till it hits a point it is dumped into the cap. But the peak out is higher when the coil has its down swing first. Like it added momentum to the output. Same discharge width in both.

Now I have to see if thats the case with a normal coil. Normal coils do have some capacitance. But I wonder if it is the same gain.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #493 on: January 17, 2016, 05:56:26 AM »
With the coil alone at near same rotor speed p-p is about 6v.  In respect to the post above.

Mags


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Shorting coil gives back more power
« Reply #494 on: January 17, 2016, 07:08:17 AM »
Ok, that was the bifi coil. Here is a normal coil below. About the same physical size coil but bigger wire. 1.65mh

The bifi shots were at 400us and these are seen at 80us. There is the oscillation but higher freq and much faster die down.

The coil was reverse wired to show that is all it takes to get the downward throw on the departing side.

But here the oscillation dies off so fast that it looks better to take the output when the oscillation is started on the up swing being that the next half wave is significantly reduced each swing. So the upward, most powerful swing of the oscillation shows to dump into the cap for a longer period of time. But waiting for the down swing and then the up swing there is a narrower dump time because that swing has a shorter peak.

The down then upward swing does have a bit more height at time to dump but is shorter lived.

So there does seem to be a little advantage in using a bifi coils here because taking advantage of the downward swing inertia doesnt let you loose much on the next swing because the oscillation doesnt die off so quickly on the next swing.

So when using shorting, to get the best results with a particular setup, use a scope to see what gives you the best output per time shorted. it seems to matter. ;)

Mags

 

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